Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

B20 said:
It wasn't until 2017 that Trump made the US acknowledge Jerusalem, rather than Tel Aviv, as the capital.
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No, that is just a change of embassy that, to avoid conflict, contries mantained it in tel aviv. For what i read, west jerusalem had been considered israel capital for a few decades already. I dont know why i didnt know that
 
B20 said:
It wasn't until 2017 that Trump made the US acknowledge Jerusalem, rather than Tel Aviv, as the capital.
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4bars said:
No, that is just a change of embassy that, to avoid conflict, contries mantained it in tel aviv. For what i read, west jerusalem had been considered israel capital for a few decades already. I dont know why i didnt know that
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Jerusalem has been the capital since 1949. Countries have kept their embassies in Tel Aviv to avoid implicitly recognizing this, as the status of Jerusalem remains officially unresolved and is supposed to be settled by negotiation.
 
2cents said:
Jerusalem has been the capital since 1949. Countries have kept their embassies in Tel Aviv to avoid implicitly recognizing this, as the status of Jerusalem remains officially unresolved and is supposed to be settled by negotiation.
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Didnt become the capital after the 1967? Is what i read recently
 
4bars said:
Didnt become the capital after the 1967? Is what i read recently
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You can read Ben Gurion’s December 1949 declaration of Jerusalem as the capital here -https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/prime-minister-ben-gurion-on-jerusalem

The 1967 war and subsequent annexation brought East Jerusalem and the Old City under Israeli control, but by then West Jerusalem had been the capital for 17 years.

It is absolutely standard in Arabic media for Tel Aviv to be referenced as the capital.
 
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neverdie said:
That's disgraceful from a man of that position. Typical, but disgraceful. It was an asymmetrical war-concentration-camp (with periodic flashes), it is now a genocide. There's no shade of grey. No one, sane, justifies what Hamas does but no one, sane-cognizant of the situation, historically, pretends that they could not see it coming. You can only push a people so far. It was written in this thread (iirc) that there would be a reaction and that you couldn't justify it but you also could not fail to understand it. By the same token, I understand the Israeli reaction, immediately, but am absolutely baffled by how far they've taken it.

2% of all Gazan children either murdered or injured directly. That's a genocide.

Who, bar a very few, is actually defending Hamas? None. The burden is on the state which is going about ethnic cleansing and genocide and calls itself a state, recognized by the majority of the world, a not a militia with diaspora links to a nascent, if seemingly implausible, Palestinian state.
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Well said. Excellent post.

As for the recent German quotes coming out. Wow! It seems that they are so fecking scared to say anything against Israel because they feel immense regret and embarrassed about the holocaust or because they fear that if they do stand up and say anything then instantly they will be labeled Nazis again and have to face accusations of never changing and ultimately wanting the end of Jews. It's unbelievable that they don't realise that acting the way they are doing will ultimately harm them far more.

Rachel Riley.... Well, she's absolutely stunning and has an amazing brain, but she's also a nasty piece of work and stories of her have been out for years about how much of a nasty, spiteful, arrogant bitch she is.

I'm ashamed she's a United fan and I think she must go to the top of the list of the worst fans we have. Even worse than Kim Jong Un.
 
2cents said:
You can read Ben Gurion’s December 1949 declaration of Jerusalem as the capital here -https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/prime-minister-ben-gurion-on-jerusalem

The 1967 war and subsequent annexation brought East Jerusalem and the Old City under Israeli control, but by then West Jerusalem had been the capital for 17 years.

It is absolutely standard in Arabic media for Tel Aviv to be referenced as the capital.
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But what makes a state a state and a capital a capital? The internal will or the external recognition?

As i read more about it, israel had its capital as west jerusalem as you said in 1949. It was in 1967 that considered the whole jerusalem as its capital. But the big majority of the world including the UN doesnt recognize it till trump in US. Just a few countries did the same even australia that later on went back on the recognition
 
4bars said:
But what makes a state a state and a capital a capital? The internal will or the external recognition?

As i read more about it, israel had its capital as west jerusalem as you said in 1949. It was in 1967 that considered the whole jerusalem as its capital. But the big majority of the world including the UN doesnt recognize it till trump in US. Just a few countries did the same even australia that later on went back on the recognition
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I would say the reality is that the Israeli government, including its parliament (the Knesset) and ministries, has been located there since 1949, and the state has regarded Jerusalem as its capital since then. The rest of the world is under no obligation to recognize these facts as indicating or legitimizing anything in particular, but the logical extension of adopting this stance is to deny that Israel has any capital at all.

I don't really understand what it is you think changed in 1967 in regards to the city's capital status? We refer to the Israeli controlled part from 1948 to 1967 as "West Jerusalem", but that is just to acknowledge an arbitrary and short-lived division determined by the results of the 1948 war. Physically partitioning the city was not part of any international plan or consensus that I'm aware of. The world refused to recognize Jerusalem as the capital from 1949 to 1967, and has largely continued to do so since then.
 
Two US doctors on Israel's unprecedented brutality and sheer cruelty in its conducting of the Gaza genocide. They describe the intentional destruction of hospitals, medical facilities, and ambulances, the killing, maiming, torture and kidnapping of the medical personel. Everything is done so the injured have little to chance to survive and there's no functional healthcare system, even after the war criminals leave. If they ever leave.

Israel has dropped so much American ordnance on Gaza that it now exceeds the explosive force of the atomic bomb on Hiroshima.

"A 2 years old girl was shot in the head, twice".

 


I know we discussed her before, but how can this piece of shit of a human filth still get air time?
 
According to the same account above, 13000 are missing in addition to the 33000 officially dead.
 
Also, leaks from the negotiating delegation on Israel's Channel 12

-The negotiations in their current form may continue for an additional year

- An exchange deal could have been reached two months ago, and during this period we lost the lives of many hostages, and Netanyahu did not listen to us.
 
Idxomer said:
They achieved victory against the children of Gaza which was one of the war's aims.
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True, although that's a double-edged sword as it also makes sure Hamas has it's highest ever conscripts next time and also did irreversible damage to Israels popularity worldwide.
 
Idxomer said:
Also, leaks from the negotiating delegation on Israel's Channel 12

-The negotiations in their current form may continue for an additional year

- An exchange deal could have been reached two months ago, and during this period we lost the lives of many hostages, and Netanyahu did not listen to us.
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Just a reminder that every time Biden says a ceasefire is in Hamas' hands, he's lying for Netanyahu's benefit. He knows there's no deal to be made with the constraints Netanyahu is putting on his negotiating team.
 
Idxomer said:
Just a reminder that every time Biden says a ceasefire is in Hamas' hands, he's lying for Netanyahu's benefit. He knows there's no deal to be made with the constraints Netanyahu is putting on his negotiating team.
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I dont know how assassinating 3 sons of Haniyah and 4 grandchildren will help the negotiations?
 
the_cliff said:
True, although that's a double-edged sword as it also makes sure Hamas has it's highest ever conscripts next time and also did irreversible damage to Israels popularity worldwide.
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I don't know, I think ultimately they are betting on people forgetting with time. If they ethnically cleanse Palestinians from Gaza or keep thinning the population, it's a job well done and they can live with the hate for a while. They are also stealing West Bank lands at an unprecedented rate in the last 6 months. These are their real goals, their declared war objectives are mostly for Western consumption.
 
2cents said:
I would say the reality is that the Israeli government, including its parliament (the Knesset) and ministries, has been located there since 1949, and the state has regarded Jerusalem as its capital since then. The rest of the world is under no obligation to recognize these facts as indicating or legitimizing anything in particular, but the logical extension of adopting this stance is to deny that Israel has any capital at all.

I don't really understand what it is you think changed in 1967 in regards to the city's capital status? We refer to the Israeli controlled part from 1948 to 1967 as "West Jerusalem", but that is just to acknowledge an arbitrary and short-lived division determined by the results of the 1948 war. Physically partitioning the city was not part of any international plan or consensus that I'm aware of. The world refused to recognize Jerusalem as the capital from 1949 to 1967, and has largely continued to do so since then.
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On your question, i refer on the jerusalem declaration in 1967 (all of this is new to me, so i am learning bits and pieces while i am discussing this) were israel "annexed" and expanded their control the boundaries of the city to east jerusalem ammending their law from 1949 that considered the part of jerusalem that they controlled. I guess they couldnt declare the whole city before bc it was under jordanian rule? They even illegally deported the palestinian mayor of west jerusalem
 
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