Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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Don't suppose you're able to comment more? Be interested to know which patterns of preconditions. No worries if not.
I look at it like this: Israel intentionally made statements that the Palestinians were animals and through the madness/disgrace of October, used that to paint all of Gaza with the one brush (all the Palestinians) when it was known in conservative quarters that a response, horrific as it was, was coming because they had been pushed so far back. Not a "don't blame Hamas" (do) but a don't then go to genocide of an entire people.
Or, as the most insane Iranians paint Israelis, habitually, so too Israelis have taken to painting Palestinians (for their own purposes).
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I genuinely think Trump is unelectable because women will not want their rights taken away and will come out in droves to vote Biden.
However, regarding the Palestinian issue I am not so sure Trump would be worse. Biden is a self proclaimed Zionist and he is competent. He cares only about the Israelis in this conflict and has been very efficient in delivering weapons, aid and running a propaganda campaign to provide support for Israel's genocide. Trump on the other hand doesn't care about either Palestinians or Israelis and is incompetent. I am sure if it gets him praise he will order the US military to bomb Gaza itself but Trump won't be able to run a propaganda and aids campaign as well as Biden. I don't think he is invested in this issue at all as much as Biden. There is a chance Trump hires someone competent to handle the propaganda and aids campaign, then it would be worse for Palestinians but I just don't see Trump hiring anyone competent.
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It's not that they'll stop Israel immediately, it's more a long-term thing. I don't see an easy return for Israel as it continues its genocide in Gaza. Only can return if it ceases. You say it will then be forgotten about but the window, imo, has already shifted. What was not published before is in all the broadsheets for the world to see.
Temperature is "high". This is a complete joke. Who do they think they're fooling. The Biden administration has been extremely lenient about Israel's conduct.
Which genocide did you teach? I recently listened to a podcast about the American Indian wars and thought the massacres and atrocities committed by settlers and their militias shared some similarities with what’s happening in Gaza. Mostly in the sense that it’s often the settlers and not the state who start everything. And once the situation escalated, the state starts to protect its citizens, or claims it does and ends up committing full scale genocide.
Basically the settlers provoke a response and that response serves as an excuse for the state join in.
All the stuff in those 2 tweets about systematic, institutionalized dehumanization. It’s then coupled with the linking of the idea of collective guilt with collective punishment.
The Holocaust
It’s very true. It’s true across the board. As the tweets say, those preconditions exist in the lead up to every genocide.
Indeed it is. It’s just a mess
There's always going to be someone taking the piss being on the outer end of any debate , good luck if you're expecting anything else. I just don't see what it adds to the debate trying to be triumphant and going for the "where are the apologists now", as if you get a trophy. Also, "over a more protracted period" is a bit of an understatement and no sides were without blame prior to october 7th, it's hardly been a one sided conflict. The attacks on Oct7 marked a major change in aggression and overall targeting from Israel, imo, who have gone from having a wee bit of sympathy to pretty much none whatsoever due to their continued aggression and extreme attacks which have turned into genocide.. Not that it matters much, as it's a political matter and the yanks aren't wavering their support.
It paints a fairly dark picture of how the world functions.
I don't believe he was being triumphant though - I read it as 'How can anyone that supports Israel defend this next thing' (but I'll let him speak for himself).
The other thing is - it definitely is a one sided conflict and pretty much always has been, and although you can make an argument that both sides are to blame, Israel is undoubtedly the occupier, oppressor and instigator. Hamas didn't appear from a vacuum and are a direct consequence of unchecked Israeli brutalisation and aggression. No native people anywhere in the world would allow themselves to be ethnically cleansed or killed without resistance by a colonial / settler group.
It absolutely is. If you push this kind of claim, you're either uninformed or willfully blind.
They never had one.
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100% - you'll find this short documentary interesting as well - how Palestine is framed in Israeli textbooks and how the indoctrination starts from a young age:
Alternate Focus interviews Nurit Peled-Elhanan, author of the forthcoming book Palestine in Israeli School Books: Ideology and Propaganda in Education. Nurit Peled-Elhanan argues that the textbooks used in the school system are laced with a pro-Israel ideology, and that they play a part in priming Israeli children for military service. She analyzes the presentation of images, maps, layouts and use of language in History, Geography and Civic Studies textbooks, and reveals how the books might be seen to marginalize Palestinians, legitimize Israeli military action and reinforce Jewish-Israeli territorial identity.
Israel is the Nazi Germany of 2020s. They need to be stopped
Sorry for the slow response. Fully hear with what you're saying and don't disagree that they deliberately targeted and murdered the WCK aid workers. However, my original point is that shooting fish in a barrel and committing genocide is not a clever or good plan for their obvious aim of wiping out the idea of a Palestinian state or people. The irony is that they had eroded the idea of a Palestinian state to such an extent that prior to this war a two-party solution was effectively off the table.
If you had said on 6th Oct that in 6 months:
- Israel would be on the wrong side of the ICJ
- US and UK would be openly discussing stopping weapon sales to Israel
- Saudi Arabia and the Gulf states were downgrading diplomatic ties
- Calls to recognise the Palestinian state by the EU, Cameron etc.
- Israel is seriously diminished on the world stage
There will be long term consequences for the state of Israel that I believe ends up with the recognition of a Palestinian State by the EU, UK, US, CA plus Russia and China. And I said it at the time, this is what Hamas wanted when it attacked Israel on the 7th Oct. All the butchery is exactly because the IDF and Netanyahu and his fascist government have no plan other than simply killing Palestinians. War crimes do not equate to good strategy or put the Israeli's in a position of strength long term.
In the next year we will see the fall of Netanyahu for good, his own people despise him. He is now stuck in a war where he can't have the hostages returned, as they are the reason the war is continuing.
Now obviously this has come at the expense of millions of innocent Palestinians maimed, displaced, and dead. The stain of Israeli war crimes will live long in the memory of the entire region. What we won't see, sadly, is any of the Israeli politicians in the Hague for war crimes. Countries will probably be officially declaring what we're witnessing a genocide in 50 years time, causing diplomatic rifts with Israel - much like declaring the Armenian genocide a genocide today pisses Turkey off.
Washington Post:
U.S. approved more bombs to Israel on day of World Central Kitchen strikes
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/04/world-central-kitchen-us-weapons-israel/
U.S. approved more bombs to Israel on day of World Central Kitchen strikes
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/04/04/world-central-kitchen-us-weapons-israel/
No one's stopping them.
I honestly think very little of this will be true in the end. Yes there's a pantomime of sympathy right now but actions speak louder and they'll be little pushback to Israel taking much more land. I think there's a greater concern over geopolitics than human lives.
They will create a buffer zone, they will indefinitely occupy the land and create security zones. I expect in the end they'll just be the west bank left.
Netanyahu and his cronies are happy to be painted as evil as long as they achieve their aims. They're just positioning Israel so a moderate can come in after them and maintain their work with deniability.
So what will happen to israel with this shift that you mentioned? Most likely hypothesis in your Opinion?
Maybe, but their current strategy of murder isn't the grand master plan people seem to think it is. E.g. what are Netanyahu's aims? To wipe out Palestine? Or is it to stay in power as long as possible to avoid being thrown in jail by a fuming Israeli society?
All discussion of a Palestinian state was dead in the water prior to 7.10. Their strategy of genocide is only leading them to international alienation and does nothing to help them long term. While people might be exacerbated by our collective countries' stance towards Israel, this conflict has done significant damage to the support Israel has received for the last five decades.
There are open calls for a two state solution again. Sanctions are being placed on settlers. There are now open talks about suspending arms sales to Israel. However way you look at it, Israel has royally fecked this war up, because they will end up giving up hard-fought international support for feck all. They are forever going to have the word genocide associated with them, too many mainstream commentators are referring to it as such now.
"Human shields"? That's so 2023. I haven't heard this for a while.
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So finally the western media is calling out Israel, wonder if it has anything to do with westerners being killed? The systemic racism is disgusting, all it took was 7 westerners, showing the lack of respect for the Palestinian people that these cnuts have.
It's 100% this, and 6 months too late but better late than never I guess.
She's a play actor. I know I'm one of her constituents. It's all an act. There are only a handful of decent people in Congress. The rest are all charlatans who play act for the camera. They are more concerned with their power and wealth accumulation.
Congress plays a large role in foregin policy. The president has limitations on what they can do
1. I would take Pelosi over most members of congress. But, respectfully, I don't want this to become a thread about Pelosi and her investments.
2. Yes, congress plays a role, but ultimately this is in the hands of Biden. He can stop the war.
Or her ice creams, or her go back to China. She is the worst kind and very out of depth with the reality of the middle class. but yes, she is intelligent what makes her a double edge sword. Intelligent to do something god for the country just enough to keep the ball rolling while profiteering of her position. And choosing her over most members of congress, doesnt say much. Most of them are crooked
It's just so disgusting. They'll soon start carrying on like this has been their position for the entirety of this genocide.
Weren't they always on the Mandela boat? since the beginning?
Exactly, horrible cnuts.
I snapped in anger when he mocked the Innocent civilians with his quotation gesture. Racist sh*t.
It's the chance of a lifetime for Israel to definitely get rid of Gaza. Beyond the appalling human cost, they've effectively destroyed every relevant infrastructure for a normal country or city to function. It's not nearly enough talked about but that's a crucial fact. The question is will they manage to push the Gazans into the Sinai Desert or wherever. All lies on the Rafah offensive.
Israel and Hamas are both gambling. The former counts on the policy of the usual "fait accompli" policy and the Western establishment's willful blindness to carry it out, the latter on the world's opinion to definitely break the deadlock.
- They always have been.
- They never officially did and it won't stop.
- It's on stand-by. For a very long time, but on stand-by nevertheless.
- There are none. You're massively mistaken if you think that the UK will recognize Palestine, unless the
- They indeed are and I maintain that they will never recover from it.
The US just rejected the recognition of Palestine as a UN full member, backed by all Western members of the UNSC.
They have a plan. A very clear one which is solving the Gaza question once and for all. People are falling into the same trap as with Putin and assuming that every perceived enemy is an incompetent madman. Netanyahu, his government and the IDF are anything but.
He never gave a feck about them, made it clear from day one and the Israeli population is going along with it. The hostages never played any relevant role in this massacre.
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