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Starting to sound like Biden has had enough.

but will really believe it when they pull the next weapons shipment
 
The Israel lobby is unprecedented. Are there lawyers for any other country?
 
Rooney24 said:
Starting to sound like Biden has had enough.

but will really believe it when they pull the next weapons shipment
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The weapons were committed to years ago, so I wouldn't bank on it. The one thing Biden could do is speak out more forcefully, which would put a lot of pressure on Netanyahu, in the absence of his main international supporter, to not go into Rafa. Not that it would work, given that the Israelis aren't going to stop until Hamas are no longer a threat from Gaza.
 
Raoul said:
The weapons were committed to years ago, so I wouldn't bank on it. The one thing Biden could do is speak out more forcefully, which would put a lot of pressure on Netanyahu, in the absence of his main international supporter, to not go into Rafa. Not that it would work, given that the Israelis aren't going to stop until Hamas are no longer a threat from Gaza.
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You still think this is about Hamas?

Anyway, Hamas already poses no actual threat to anything outside of Gaza, this has been the case for months. It will take years though to kill their influence inside of Gaza.
 
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Raoul said:
The weapons were committed to years ago, so I wouldn't bank on it. The one thing Biden could do is speak out more forcefully, which would put a lot of pressure on Netanyahu, in the absence of his main international supporter, to not go into Rafa. Not that it would work, given that the Israelis aren't going to stop until Hamas are no longer a threat from Gaza.
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How are they going to achieve that?
 
Adisa said:
The Israel lobby is unprecedented. Are there lawyers for any other country?
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Graduated in 2012, which makes her 33.

Her website:

"After her law degree at Oxford University and an LL.M. specialising in public international law, Natasha clerked for the President of the Supreme Court of Israel in Jerusalem. In 2018, as a Pegasus Scholar, Natasha was a Fellow at Columbia Law School in the National Security Law Program. She lectures globally on aspects of public international law and national security policy."

I would trust the 600 signatories over her view, especially given you had ex Supreme Court judges from across the political spectrum agreeing on this issue.
 
"Israel's army's Chief of Staff decides to fire the Nahal Brigade Commander and Assistant Brigade Commander after the killing of aid workers from the WCK".

They found their scapegoats.
 
Idxomer said:
"Israel's army's Chief of Staff decides to fire the Nahal Brigade Commander and Assistant Brigade Commander after the killing of aid workers from the WCK".

They found their scapegoats.
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And you know this completely meaningless and transparent firing will result in Biden saying something like ‘they have corrected their mistake and taken accountability’.
 
Frosty said:
Forgive my ignorance, but what does this mean on practice? It seems as though the branches will remain open, but without the discounts?
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My guess is that franchises can action some policies as they are the owners. I assume the franchise contracts allows them to give free meals, discounts etc... If MacDonalds buy them back (probably in the contract), they dictate what can or can't be done
 
Frosty said:
Forgive my ignorance, but what does this mean on practice? It seems as though the branches will remain open, but without the discounts?
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Yes, exactly - Independent franchisors in Israel giving discounted / free food has hurt the McDonalds brand worldwide (and I think their projected sales forecast). Bringing these restaurants back in house will at least stop the free / discounted food being given out as McDonald’s now own the restaurants again. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if they ended up closing a few heavy loss making branches in the coming months. But it’s about saving face and saving the brand.

They’re supposedly haemorrhaging money in their Arab branches as well, so I think we may hear something similar there down the line.
 
I would love to see McDonald’s struggling, and not just because of the war in Gaza.
 
Peak of methodical and organized human cruelty. From victims to child killers. Shame on anyone supporting or trying to justify this.

 
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Amir said:
That's nonsense.

We did not invade Poland (yet).
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As an Israeli, how do you think the views of your country's general public are?there is some sort of extreme nationalism in Israel?
Do your fellow compatriots feel that the lives of the Gaza civilians worth nothing?
The USA and Russia are not saints but the Afghan civilians killed in USA's war in Afghanistan was 46k in 20 years and the Ukraine civilians killed in the Russian invasion is 10-20k in 2 years. while 30k+ Palestinians have been killed in half-year conflict.
 
JeffFromHK said:
As an Israeli, how do you think the views of your country's general public are?there is some sort of extreme nationalism in Israel?
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Definitely. The public has generally moved more to the right since the 90s, and part of it includes extreme nationalism. It's gotten worse since October 7 and might be getting worse now, as some feel is 'us against the world' because people can't fathom why the world has turned against in recent months.

JeffFromHK said:
Do your fellow compatriots feel that the lives of the Gaza civilians worth nothing?
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Many feel exactly that, though I can't quantify it. For some it's a case of 'there are no innocent people in Gaza' due to the celebrations and involvement of people there on October 7, plus claims of military people returning from Gaza of finding weapons in loads of houses there. You could say it's just their excuse not to care about people dying in Gaza, including women and children, but that's pretty much the bottom line: They don't care how many die there.

JeffFromHK said:
The USA and Russia are not saints but the Afghan civilians killed in USA's war in Afghanistan was 46k in 20 years and the Ukraine civilians killed in the Russian invasion is 10-20k in 2 years. while 30k+ Palestinians have been killed in half-year conflict.
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Yeah, this has gone way too far. Israel had every right to defend itself and attack Hamas after October 7, but this has been like a bull in a China shop. Between the wish for revenge by many - including people serving in the IDF and fighting in Gaza - and a govenment that has no direction what-so-ever and is making moves based on its own wish for survival, this is been a gross and murderous miscalculation.

And yet, so many in Israel still support that move and wish to continue it while thinking childishly we're going to 'annihilate Hamas'.
 
Raven said:
So finally the western media is calling out Israel, wonder if it has anything to do with westerners being killed? The systemic racism is disgusting, all it took was 7 westerners, showing the lack of respect for the Palestinian people that these cnuts have.
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Potentially the straw that broke the camel's back for some but the narrative had already started to shift before that incident. The reservations on calling out what Israel are doing seems to have disappeared in the major outlets. Israel's propoganda machine has completely collapsed.

Should have happened a long time ago but better late than never as @The Corinthian said.
 
Amir said:
Definitely. The public has generally moved more to the right since the 90s, and part of it includes extreme nationalism. It's gotten worse since October 7 and might be getting worse now, as some feel is 'us against the world' because people can't fathom why the world has turned against in recent months.



Many feel exactly that, though I can't quantify it. For some it's a case of 'there are no innocent people in Gaza' due to the celebrations and involvement of people there on October 7, plus claims of military people returning from Gaza of finding weapons in loads of houses there. You could say it's just their excuse not to care about people dying in Gaza, including women and children, but that's pretty much the bottom line: They don't care how many die there.



Yeah, this has gone way too far. Israel had every right to defend itself and attack Hamas after October 7, but this has been like a bull in a China shop. Between the wish for revenge by many - including people serving in the IDF and fighting in Gaza - and a govenment that has no direction what-so-ever and is making moves based on its own wish for survival, this is been a gross and murderous miscalculation.

And yet, so many in Israel still support that move and wish to continue it while thinking childishly we're going to 'annihilate Hamas'.
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Thanks for your info.

I am an outsider, was even slightly pro Israel before 7 Oct given that Israel feels more "civilized", but feel that Israel is not doing itself any favor. The world was with your country on 7 Oct and it is amazing that your country can vapourize people's sympathy that quickly, and I see your country's PR department just keep repeating the "look how bad these Hamas terrorists are!" cliche. It is even more amazing that Israeli feel perplexed by USA's reaction to Israel's cruelty while indeed the USA has been very lenient to Israel (US's bombing of Yugoslavia is a good reference).
 
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JeffFromHK said:
Thanks for your info.

I am an outsider, was even slightly pro Israel before 7 Oct given that Israel feels more "civilized", but feel that Israel is not doing itself any favor. The world was with your country on 7 Oct and it is amazing that your country can vapourize people's sympathy that quickly, and I see your country's PR department just keep repeating the "look how bad these Hamas terrorists are!" cliche. It is even more amazing that Israeli feel perplexed by USA's reaction to Israel's cruelty while indeed the USA has been very lenient to Israel (US's bombing of Yugoslavia is a good reference).
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There is no real PR department, at least not a functioning one.

to add to the post that Amir has written which I agree with,
one has to understand that it's a slow process that's built gradually over the years.
even since you're in kindergarten you are taught about the heroic actions of the fallen soldiers over the years.
and then you get to to 9th grade, highschool... and you want to get into the best units of the IDF, the combative ones. it's a status symbol,
and it fills young people and their parents with real pride.

You are there to make sure that the enemy doesn't hurt you. if your enemy is seen as a human being, then you have a problem.
so he has to remain a figure, A Palestinian. no name, no identity.

I grew up in a secular, liberal, anti-religion home. parents voting for left leaning parties etc.
Still, no one hardly ever said anything to me about people living in the WB or Gaza. they're just there, and they don't like us, and we don't like them.
the proposition of peace for the 1990s is dead and buried. They don't want us here, never have, never will. this is probably what's being repeated in many many homes in Israel in the ears of children, to various degrees of extremisms. My parents never said anything like that to me, but I still picked it up from the general atmosphere, from how the media here portrait the world, from Memorial Days...

So all in all, people from the non-religious public in Israel grow up to be rather indifferent about the suffering of people on the other side of the border. so long as they don't throw missiles at us and not bother us, then fine. it's a shame that they're even there but what can you do, this is the Middle East after all...

And when they do throw missiles at us, we will feck them up ten folds with our planes and drones, and they will stay put for another 20 years...
I don't think I ever met a single person from "my population group" who wished for tens of thousands of Gazans to die. people just wished for them to keep living in that open air prison and die anyway, but "not by our hands".

The shift in the Israeli society since October is that many more people will say that bluntly - "I don't give a single feck about anyone over there, that's their undoing. They made it very clear that we have no choice but to act the way we do".

I think that people are just starting to lose their minds really.
 
Amir said:
And yet, so many in Israel still support that move and wish to continue it while thinking childishly we're going to 'annihilate Hamas'.
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Chances are they or a similar group will grow stronger than ever because of Israels brutality. There is a good chance that other grouos outside of Gaza that are anti-Israel will also grow in ranks.
 
Raven said:
So finally the western media is calling out Israel, wonder if it has anything to do with westerners being killed? The systemic racism is disgusting, all it took was 7 westerners, showing the lack of respect for the Palestinian people that these cnuts have.
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Just to point out that the tide began turning with the proposed attack on Rafah.
 

Do the Palestinian people have the right to self-determination, also adopted.

The US continuing to embarrass themselves on the world stage.
 
JeffFromHK said:
Thanks for your info.

I am an outsider, was even slightly pro Israel before 7 Oct given that Israel feels more "civilized", but feel that Israel is not doing itself any favor. The world was with your country on 7 Oct and it is amazing that your country can vapourize people's sympathy that quickly, and I see your country's PR department just keep repeating the "look how bad these Hamas terrorists are!" cliche. It is even more amazing that Israeli feel perplexed by USA's reaction to Israel's cruelty while indeed the USA has been very lenient to Israel (US's bombing of Yugoslavia is a good reference).
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Obviously our PR is limited because, well, you just can't really explain to the world what Israel's has been doing for months (and years and decades, really).

Plenty of Israelis think that supporting us is only valid if it's total - no matter what we do, no questions asked. It's totally simplistic and silly, but that's the way it is.
 
Denis79 said:
Chances are they or a similar group will grow stronger than ever because of Israels brutality. There is a good chance that other grouos outside of Gaza that are anti-Israel will also grow in ranks.
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You trying to bring rationality into an inrrational situation, and to irrational and indoctrinated people (as @ScholesyTheWise wrote).
 
Raven said:
I don't seem to recall any calls for an immediate ceasefire. Only westerners being murdered is sufficient for that.
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What's a westerner? There were countries in the west calling for ceasefires at that point.

The US and UK said that the Rafah offensive was a red line. Why do you suppose that is?
 
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