Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

That_Bloke said:
Good to see you back in this thread. We need posters like you, more than ever.
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Thanks. I haven't had much to contribute in the last few weeks as an illness and then death in the family have taken most of my time . I've not even been as updated as before regarding everything that's been happening in Israel and Gaza.
 
Amir said:
Thanks. I haven't had much to contribute in the last few weeks as an illness and then death in the family have taken most of my time . I've not even been as updated as before regarding everything that's been happening in Israel and Gaza.
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I'm truly sorry to hear that, my heartfelt condolences. Know that every post coming from you never falls on deaf ears. Not from mine at least.
 
RedTiger said:
Begs the question how do you manage to interrogate a 4 and 5 year old, deny them a potty break? Then again it's coming from lying Palestinians so take with a pinch of dead sea salt.
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It's really absurd that they detain 100's of children every year.
 
Int’l committee must investigate Israel’s holding of dead bodies in Gaza

"Euro-Med Monitor confirmed that Israel is the only country that systematically holds the dead bodies of those it kills, and is classified as one of the world’s biggest hubs for the illegal trade of human organs under the pretext of “security deterrence” and in total violation of international charters and agreements.

Euro-Med Human Rights Monitor also confirmed that refusing to hand over the bodies of the dead so their grieving families can bury them with dignity and in accordance with their religious beliefs may amount to collective punishment, which is strictly prohibited in Article 50 of the Hague Regulations and Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention."

More war crimes.
 
The question should have been, 'Is October 7 a proportionate response to the atrocities and humiliation Palestinians have been going through since 1948?"
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:


I mean, at this point...
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I'm glad the girl is alive for the sake of her and her family. I know that the figures for 7 October dead were revised down. I hope the father was informed of the reality as soon as possible.

The onus should be on the media to correct this here, which I haven't seen in the stories from today.

I'm reminded of Hanlon's razor - never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by neglect, ignorance or incompetence.

Given the record of the IDF, I suspect they won't get the benefit of the doubt when there is incompetence rather than deliberate action.
 
Frosty said:
I'm glad the girl is alive for the sake of her and her family. I know that the figures for 7 October dead were revised down. I hope the father was informed of the reality as soon as possible.

The onus should be on the media to correct this here, which I haven't seen in the stories from today.

I'm reminded of Hanlon's razor - never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by neglect, ignorance or incompetence.

Given the record of the IDF, I suspect they won't get the benefit of the doubt when there is incompetence rather than deliberate action.
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I wonder if this is about that girl.

"But at the end of October, Israeli authorities came back to Hand with stunning news — they had evidence Emily was alive and was among the roughly 240 hostages Hamas was holding in Gaza."

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/26/1215...-9-year-old-israeli-girl-is-released-by-hamas
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:


I mean, at this point...
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I honestly feel incredibly happy for this little girl who had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with this conflict other than being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Seeing her reunite with her father personally fills me with nothing but an earnest joy. No child, or any human being for that matter, deserves to go through what she endured and long may be her days.

I hope that the same applies to the hundreds of thousands of Palestinian children who endured a similar and cruel ordeal for decades.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
Surely not 10x worse for the Palestinian people as that would mean a death toll of 140,000 or 2800 daily.
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It's always hilarious to me how Dems paint Trump like some kind of boogeyman and Biden just unflinchingly gave billion dollars to kill brown babies and the while liberals was like no he's still better than Trump.
 
reelworld said:
It's always hilarious to me how Dems paint Trump like some kind of boogeyman and Biden just unflinchingly gave billion dollars to kill brown babies and the while liberals was like no he's still better than Trump.
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He is.
 
2cents said:
I have read up a bit on it, and based on what I’ve read I am not prepared to come to a firm conclusion about the details of the case, certainly not to the extent that I would be happy to confidently post about it in this thread.

Given that the thread’s framing of the entire incident rests on what appears to be a lie, why would anyone with that knowledge bother taking the rest of it seriously or even bother reading it?

Yes let’s put the disinformation you have (once again) posted to one side.
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You're exaggerating here. What is clear that there was an explosion of some sort of which Israa suffered a great deal of physical pain and scarring. What else is clear if you read the various incident reporting is that she wasn't given the right medical care not just at the time but in her subsequent incarceration. In any case - there's a reason I posted tweet 4 and 6 specifically - as it detailed the horrific nature of her injuries. Is that disinformation?

No to both. Hence why I am not prepared to accept the ruling of the Israeli court in this case at face value either.
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So we're in agreement then.
africanspur said:
The problem with this kind of stuff is that there are countless examples of Israelis treating Palestinians in a truly awful way. Posting stuff tjwy turns out to be unverified and potentially a gray area only makes sole people less likely to believe the genuinely awful crap they pull on a regular basis.

I think it's probably having the opposite effect of what you intend it to.
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I take your point and I agree, but there's nothing I posted that is unverified with tweet #4 and #6.

She was injured severely and denied the care - that's been corroborated.
 
reelworld said:
It's always hilarious to me how Dems paint Trump like some kind of boogeyman and Biden just unflinchingly gave billion dollars to kill brown babies and the while liberals was like no he's still better than Trump.
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He is still better.
 
Dirty Schwein said:
That doesn't make him a holocaust denier. And we agree, no live holocaust happening right now.

EDIT: (took a while to find the website but here's a quote from Norman)



Source: Haunted House - Norman Finklestein

I don't know the context behind his endorsement of Irving, but Norman appears to be a complicated man so I don't know exactly what he's referring to, possibly that Irving had some good insight into WW2 from the Nazi perspective? Dunno. But I dont think he's denies that the holocaust happened.

Douglas Murray is a soundbite merchant and shouldn't be listened to. Especially after he shat his pants when Piers offered him to debate Norman.

Happy for people to have an opinion on Norman, as you clearly do but labelling someone a holocaust denier without concrete proof/more rational explanation is a bit silly, especially as he talks about his parents surviving the holocaust.
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Here is the what judge Peter Liebtreu said about David Irving:

He showed no signs that he attempted to change his views after the arrest warrant was issued 16 years ago in Austria.... He served as an example for the right wing for decades. He is comparable to a prostitute who hasn't changed her ways.... Irving is a falsifier of history and anything but a proper historian. In the world of David Irving there were no gas chambers and no plan to murder the Jews. He's continued to deny the fact that the Holocaust was genocide orchestrated from the highest ranks of the Nazi state.
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Here is what Norman Filkenstein said about David Irving (knowing very well all of the above):

David Irving was a very good historian – I don’t care what Richard Evans (the historian who was a key player in the Lipstadt libel trial) says. He produced works that are substantive…If you don’t like it, don’t read it. In the case of Irving, he knew a thing or two – or three.”
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It is not that complicated. He is clever not* to deny it outright. I am sure you checked his wiki page:

In October 2020, Finkelstein published an extract from his forthcoming book, Cancel Culture, Academic Freedom and Me on his website following the banning of Holocaust denial from Facebook and Twitter. According to Finkelstein, "Holocaust denial should be taught in university and preferably by a Holocaust denier" as a means "to inoculate students" against it. He states: "If one is committed to the purity of truth, not just in its wholeness but also in its parts, then a Holocaust denier performs the useful function of ferreting out 'local' errors, precisely because he is a devil’s advocate—that is, fanatically committed to 'unmasking' the 'hoax of the 20th century.'
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So I guess, racism should be also taught at universities. Preferably by racists. I will repeat: his opinions are sick and despicable.

edit: I obviously meant not* to deny outright. Sorry for the mistake.
 
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Giggsy PO said:
Here is the what judge Peter Liebtreu said about David Irving:



Here is what Norman Filkenstein said about David Irving (knowing very well all of the above):



It is not that complicated. He is clever to deny it outright. I am sure you checked his wiki page:



So I guess, racism should be also taught at universities. Preferably by racists. I will repeat: his opinions are sick and despicable.
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Imagine misreading this statement so bad? Strawman much.
 
That_Bloke said:
Palestinians have every right to resist the occupation of their territories and that includes armed resistance, that's not me saying it but the international law. Soldiers and military checkpoints or bases are legitimate targets but not civilians, under any circumstances. The same right to self-defense that's been hammered ad nauseam by well, everyone, can't be invoked by Israel because it's an occupying power.

Israel has been on the wrong side of History since 1967 (and that's letting the Nakba in 1948 slide) and no amount of mental gymnastics and/or victim blaming will ever change that.
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Stabing children is armed resistance? Baking children in oven is armed resistance?

What side of history is ethnic cleansing of Jews in Arab world in 1920s, 1930s and well after 1948?
 
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