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Regardless on how you feel about them, Qatar seem to be doing the heavy lifting in terms of quelling the violence and ensuring hostages on both sides go home. Certainly a lot more of a humanitarian effort than the US and UK (both major political parties) cheerleading the onslaught while the EU dithers.

It's like they are showing MBS how to really emerge as a major geopolitical player apart from just having the resources to be one by default. Which is remarkable/ironic considering how their standing was just a couple of decades ago with threats of KSA invasion being a possibility.
 
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It's like they are showing MBS how to really emerge as a major geopolitical player apart from just having the resources. Which is remarkable/ironic considering how their standing was just a couple of decades ago with threats of KSA invasion being a possibility.
All MBS cares about is hosting Grand Prixes, boxing and Shakira concerts, he hasn't got time for things like this.
 
Regardless on how you feel about them, Qatar seem to be doing the heavy lifting in terms of quelling the violence and ensuring hostages on both sides go home. Certainly a lot more of a humanitarian effort than the US and UK (both major political parties) cheerleading the onslaught while the EU dithers.
There's nothing surprising nor particularly heroic about that.

They've been the unofficial (and designated) middleman between Israel and Hamas since Saudi Arabia backed off in 2017. The US were in the loop as well. No matter what Israel says about the absence of a dialogue partner and "refusal" to talk with a terrorist organization, there were still necessary channels kept open for informal negotiations and they needed an intermediary for that. Especially when Israel's intention was to keep Hamas alive and kicking for their own interests. The bags of money for Hamas coming into Gaza were brought by Qataris under the protection of Israeli forces. That's how fecked up the whole thing was.

It's also no wonder why Hamas leaders are comfortably living in Qatar, and that was known by the Israelis AND the US, without fearing for their lives. Until now at least.
 
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There's nothing surprising nor particularly heroic about that.

They've been the unofficial (and designated) middleman between Israel and Hamas since Saudi Arabia backed off in 2017. The US were in the loop as well. No matter what Israel says about the absence of a dialogue partner and "refusal" to talk with a terrorist organization, there were still necessary channels kept open for informal negotiations and they needed an intermediary for that. Especially when Israel's intention was to keep Hamas alive and kicking for their own interests. The bags of money for Hamas coming into Gaza were brought by Qataris under the protection of Israeli forces. That's how fecked up the whole thing is.

It's also no wonder why Hamas leaders are comfortably living in Qatar, and that was known by the Israelis AND the US, without fearing for their lives. Until now at least.
Oh there are no heroes in this conflict aside from the medical staff and journalists who put their lives in harms way to save people or document first hand the grim reality of it respectively. Many of whom have paid for their heroics with their own lives.

Everything else you say is valid, but if I could conjure up some credit for any party in this whole ordeal, regardless of their personal agenda, it would be them. I just don't think those on the West (namely the UK and US) or on the other end - Iran and its proxies, have any real interest in toning down the violence, nor do they care about the scale of human suffering. All they've done is assume full defensive backing of their respective sides, hiding under the guise of 'self defence' or 'liberation', while blaming the other side. Its been utterly disgraceful and inept 'mediation' from their end.
 
All MBS cares about is hosting Grand Prixes, boxing and Shakira concerts, he hasn't got time for things like this.
I mean he also dabbles in brutally hacking dissenting journalists to death, and tried his own hand at a war to inflict catastrophic levels of suffering on a native population. Maybe he realised he was out of his depth and stuck to the entertainment and sportwashing.
 
Anyhow it's been really heartening to see the peace hold up. Hamas are at least trying to extend the truce by releasing more hostages.. and people like Borrel in the EU are actively calling for a lasting peace and a international conference on how to proceed in Gaza. Hopefully something meaningful can be reached.. because if the temporary truce lapses then we already know what Israel will do.. I'm not sure many of us have the stomach to see the last month and half play out again.

It will lapse eventually though, a Hamas won't be releasing hostages forever. Also, I can't see Netanyahu not resuming the war. That will absolutely be the end of his political career.
 
I think Hamas will struggle to keep a consistent supply of hostages available to give up since they can allow women, children, and the elderly to go, but they will want to keep anyone affiliated with the IDF and/or American citizenship (to make sure Biden continues to lean on Netanyahu to extend the pause).

I don't think Hamas is holding many IDF soldiers. Most of the 161 (or so) hostages remaining are civilians.

Another point is that we don't know how many of the hostages are actually alive. Some were taken while already dead. We also know of several hostages who died while in Gaza. There could be others. One of the hostages, an 84 year old woman, was returned yesterday in a terrible condition and her life is at risk.

So obviously, if Hamas continues to release between 14 to 24 people a day (Israelis and other nationalities), like it has in the previous four days, they'll run out pretty quickly...
 
I don't think Hamas is holding many IDF soldiers. Most of the 161 (or so) hostages remaining are civilians.

Another point is that we don't know how many of the hostages are actually alive. Some were taken while already dead. We also know of several hostages who died while in Gaza. There could be others. One of the hostages, an 84 year old woman, was returned yesterday in a terrible condition and her life is at risk.

So obviously, if Hamas continues to release between 14 to 24 people a day (Israelis and other nationalities), like it has in the previous four days, they'll run out pretty quickly...

Agreed that they will run out soon, which is why they’re holding on to the more valuable ones, Americans and others.

At some point in the next few days, they will struggle to meet the pause agreement conditions and fighting will probably resume.

There’s also an argument that Netanyahu is incentivized to resume military operations because once they permanently cease, he will be under scrutiny about lapses in intelligence leading up to the attack, and his coalition will crumble.
 
It's always hilarious to me how Dems paint Trump like some kind of boogeyman and Biden just unflinchingly gave billion dollars to kill brown babies and the while liberals was like no he's still better than Trump.

Never understood how Trump being an absolute clown changes the fact Biden is a terrible human being in his own right. The guys never hidden it either, in fact he's proud of it.

Sometimes his positions don't even make sense. Like this hard-line support for Israel, to the point he makes Israels right wing look liberal, while also supporting the Irish, even some suggestions he supported the IRA back in the day. Contradictory positions to say the least.
 
It will lapse eventually though, a Hamas won't be releasing hostages forever. Also, I can't see Netanyahu not resuming the war. That will absolutely be the end of his political career.
They can't and will never release all the hostages until an official cease-fire marking the end of Israeli operations in Gaza has been declared. It would be suicidal for them to proceed otherwise. Children, elderly and women, in that order, will be freed but under no circumstances men or IDF soldiers. US citizens will also be among the last to be released, as they're more valuable than the rest. Hamas will also never intentionally harm or mistreat the hostages (not in their interest to do so, and it's always good advertisement for the cause) unless things really go south, in my opinion.

While I agree that Netanyahu will resume the war, this is where you and I differ. I personally think that Netanyahu is finished no matter what, despite his political genius because let's be honest he's an absolute master at coming back from the dead. His gamble on quietly solving the palestinian question spectacularly blew up in his face and he knows it. What he's trying to do now is to prevent his name going into complete infamy while burning every single bridge left to a two-state solution from the Israeli side. Taking one for the team, so to speak.

Israel is walking on very, very thin ice at the moment. The sympathy bonus rightly earned after the Hamas massacre on 10/7 has been utterly spent. The (expected) disproportionate military response combined to what's happening in the West Bank are raising real concerns from Israel's traditional allies about things going too far, like never before, and it begins with the US. Not out of goodness of the heart, but simply for internal security and geostrategic reasons, even if they'll never express it publicly.

We're right now at a historical crossroad. Everything that is and will be decided will influence the fate of the region and the world, for the decades to come.
 
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Can someone
There was a good FT article yesterday explaining that a lot of the hostages are held by groups other than Hamas. No way to verify but I remember reading that a lot of the civilian hostages were taken by non-Hamas groups.

Anyhow it's been really heartening to see the peace hold up. Hamas are at least trying to extend the truce by releasing more hostages.. and people like Borrel in the EU are actively calling for a lasting peace and a international conference on how to proceed in Gaza. Hopefully something meaningful can be reached.. because if the temporary truce lapses then we already know what Israel will do.. I'm not sure many of us have the stomach to see the last month and half play out again.

This put a sad smile on my face... here on the ground so to speak, it's very very obvious that it's not the end of it.

It will continue in a couple of days.
Will probably be different in the sense that Israel won't be allowed to perform such airstrikes as it did before the cease-fire-
So you'd think that fewer civilians will die, and deaths amongst the IDF will be higher.

Seeing as the IDF is constantly surprised, as has been reported, by how complicated, vast, and sophisticated the tunnel system of Hamas is,
there comes a realization that there's still tons of work to do if the objective is to destroy Hamas.

tones of job to do with fewer airstrikes to assist you before you go into southern Gaza = months of warfare, in theory.
The international community won't let Israel fight in Gaza for months on end. So it'll just be and look like a half-assed job in a field where you can't allow yourself to do such a thing.

I think Sinwar planned this to a tee. nothing that has happened so far has surprised him and his men in the slightest if I had to guess.


Bibi probably still thinks that the survival of Hamas is better for Israel than the formation of a Palestinian state.
it's just that he won't be able to keep acting according to it.
If he tries he will get ousted and the next PM will continue with the war.

Regarding the hostages, as @Amir pointed out, it is very likely that a lot of them are dead.
There's talk that quite some of the bodies that IDF soldiers took from Shifa had tattoos in Hebrew a/o other identifying marks that point to the fact that they're Israelis.

It is kept under the carpet seeing as there's every interest to act as if all the hostages are alive.

who knows.

@That_Bloke I agree with you about the crossroad here. I think that Israel is very close - maybe closer than what the government thinks - to losing/deeply damaging ties with allies or even neutral states.

Even with the likes of Jordan and Egypt where there is no love lost but the peace treaties are beneficial for strategic reasons, I don't know how long they can survive what is about to unfold in Khan Yunis and its surroundings.

Because Israel doesn't seem to have the military capabilities to destroy Hamas and Hezbollah combined- or maybe it does but the price will be too heavy to pay-, it would be logical to suggest that the state of Israel already has changed to historical proportions. I can't see how people will agree to live in the north and the south of Israel.

very interesting times ahead.
 
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It's always hilarious to me how Dems paint Trump like some kind of boogeyman and Biden just unflinchingly gave billion dollars to kill brown babies and the while liberals was like no he's still better than Trump.
He’s better than Trump. No room for comparison. We have got some normalcy back in the White House. One can like or dislike his policies, including on the current war, but he acts like a president. We don’t have cabinet members joining and leaving every other week. Just check how many people led the Departments of Justice and Defense, for example, in Trump’s four years in office.
 
even some suggestions he supported the IRA back in the day.

US politicians always love pitching for the Irish-American vote. But I don't think there is any evidence of support for the IRA.

Plus you could have supported their aim of a United Ireland (at least as an aspiration eventuality) and despised them as murderous terrorists at the same time. I know I did/do.
 
While I agree that Netanyahu will resume the war, this is where you and I differ. I personally think that Netanyahu is finished no matter what, despite his political genius because let's be honest he's an absolute master at coming back from the dead. His gamble on quietly solving the palestinian question spectacularly blew up in his face and he knows it. What he's trying to do now is to prevent his name going into complete infamy while burning every single bridge left to a two-state solution from the Israeli side. Taking one for the team, so to speak.

Whether he is finished or not, he won't accept it, which means it could continue to dictate his moves.
 
This thread deserves some positivity. Rudy Rochman provides a philosophical framework how to move forward. Message of hope.
 
This thread deserves some positivity. Rudy Rochman provides a philosophical framework how to move forward. Message of hope.


Firstly, while someone can respect to some degree if he has well intentions,
But talking this philosophical rhetoric while holding a rifle serving the IDF now participating in the killing of 13000 civilians is actually sick. He has a video with Ben Shapiro you can see his true face. He literally justified the killing of civilians and the bombing of schools and mosques.

Secondly, This is very simplistic to a degree its insulting.
It's like saying, the Palestinians "indigenous people of the land" are stupid, they think the Nakba happened not because we militarily ethnic cleansed them out, they just left because we were suddenly born in their land 1948.
 
This thread deserves some positivity. Rudy Rochman provides a philosophical framework how to move forward. Message of hope.

He’s a self proclaimed Zionist. No Zionist can establish a peaceful way forward that is fair for Palestinians because it goes against the fundamental tenet of Zionism.
 
Guys, give it a try. Rudy is genuinely nice person. The reconciliation will never happen if you judge him just because he is a Zionist. Listen to what he has to say.

He is for one state solution of both Israelis and Palestinians.

He is against US support to Israel.



 


80% of the released are detained and not even convicted.

The lies the say to justify their actions. They literally have two separate law systems for the people in the occupied west bank, one military for the Palestinians and another civil for the settlers. Disgusting.
 
Guys, give it a try. Rudy is genuinely nice person. The reconciliation will never happen if you judge him just because he is a Zionist. Listen to what he has to say.

He is for one state solution of both Israelis and Palestinians.

He is against US support to Israel.





How is a Zionist a positive for Palestinians who want to keep their own country/land?
 
Guys, give it a try. Rudy is genuinely nice person. The reconciliation will never happen if you judge him just because he is a Zionist. Listen to what he has to say.

He is for one state solution of both Israelis and Palestinians.

He is against US support to Israel.




One state solution is a fantasy. Israel will never agree to that and I assume neither the Palestinians.
 
One state solution is a fantasy. Israel will never agree to that and I assume neither the Palestinians.
Agreed. That's why it is just a philosophical concept. As Yuval Noah Harari says: "This is the curse of history: people try to save the past instead of saving the future. We cannot go back to the past and correct the wrongs that were done in previous years or decades. We need to look to the future and find some way for future peace."
 
This type of post brings nothing to the discussion. You already had a post rejected in the past because of this. Please refrain from this type of post. We are not RAWK.
You're right, sorry for that. I've deleted it.
 
I kept hearing the word ‘Kibbutz’ on the news and written in articles.

So I googled, and it says there settlements…but are these on legal land as per 1967, or illegal settlements?
 
I kept hearing the word ‘Kibbutz’ on the news and written in articles.

So I googled, and it says there settlements…but are these on legal land as per 1967, or illegal settlements?
There are kibbutzes on an occupied land but generally there's no correlation with illegal settlements, it's just a type of a settlement that's based on a communal sharing of work & goods*.

* at least they were originally, they've transformed quite a bit
 
Agreed that they will run out soon, which is why they’re holding on to the more valuable ones, Americans and others.

Continuing that, Israel just announces that three soldiers who have been held by Hamas are now considered dead based on evidence.
 
Agreed. That's why it is just a philosophical concept. As Yuval Noah Harari says: "This is the curse of history: people try to save the past instead of saving the future. We cannot go back to the past and correct the wrongs that were done in previous years or decades. We need to look to the future and find some way for future peace."
I like the fact the gentleman in the video emphasized “heal”. I liked that.

Isaac healed a rift by not blaming or imposed a compass of morality. Yet the narrative presented Ishmael as “everything the Palestinians are labelled today”.

If one can’t understand how there is already a preconceived bigotry guised in these gestures to a persons asking for parity. For time now I’ve insisted people trying to be brokers in this whole mess should start examining their own prejudices for clarity.

The forgiving and loving Isaac and the hateful Ishmael. People do listen and understand language, especially when they’ve lived it. But hey, they can always be reeducated(colonised) to know peace, love and forgiveness.

I understand you have skin in this conflict and your interest for peace precedes any biases but what you might find a genuine medium, might be shrouded in some very weird undertones to others.

You can’t philosophically look towards building a bright future with a foundation like that.
 
There are kibbutzes on an occupied land but generally there's no correlation with illegal settlements, it's just a type of a settlement that's based on a communal sharing of work & goods*.

* at least they were originally, they've transformed quite a bit

Thanks
 
Continuing that, Israel just announces that three soldiers who have been held by Hamas are now considered dead based on evidence.

Not surprising. I would imagine a number of others are also dead, which would be another reason they are not showing up on Hamas hostage swap lists (despite their families thinking they're still alive). Hamas or PIJ are also apparently holding a 10 month old baby hostage and the fact that he hasn't yet been returned is pretty ominous as to whether he is alive or not.