Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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Was reading the New Yorker article earlier. Honestly, at this point there is no real difference between Hamas and Israeli settlers, both have extremist ideologies and cause terror.
Its amazing these brain dead racists are protesting all based on a brown persons word. Youd think thats the sort of person they wouldnt want to listen to.
But hey, its an excuse to be bigoted and racist and cause a scene.
You’ve hit the nail on the head. All they need is an excuse to come crawling out of the woodwork. Just like Brexit, they see everything through knobhead glasses and can’t wait to get started causing trouble and spewing their vitriol.
They probably don’t even have a clue about the conflict- but hey, it’s an excuse to fight some brown guys.
Analysis: Can the next UN vote stop Israel’s war on Gaza?
Malta has circulated a new draft resolution focusing on Gaza’s children, Al Jazeera has learned. Will the US veto it?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/11/can-the-next-un-vote-stop-israels-war-on-gaza
Malta has circulated a new draft resolution focusing on Gaza’s children, Al Jazeera has learned. Will the US veto it?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/11/can-the-next-un-vote-stop-israels-war-on-gaza
What do you mean it was not a colony? You mean just in name?
By law it was considered a French state or province, unlike other parts of the French colonial empire.
Given that citizenship nor rights did not extend to the majority Arab/Berber population... It was a colony in all but name. Just one closely bound to mainland France.
Its just madness. No accountability. Its a hospital.
I think at some point after France annexed Algeria the Algerians were considered indigenous citizens by France, and they had the option of applying for full French citizenship. (Palestinians in West-bank and Gaza are barely considered human by the Israeli regime…)
On that front, it's not totally true, it was truer for anyone leaving in rural areas. The process wasn't automatic but as an example my grand grandparent and grandparents didhave the french citizenship.
Edit: In Tamanrasset and Alger.
Of course they'll veto it.
There could be a resolution demanding that there not be a genocide of the entire Palestinian people and the US would still veto it. They're utterly and completely compromised in this matter and by far the biggest obstacle to peace.
All that blood, there is no washing it, for them and those supporting them, having their backs.
deep in the SaharaYou're right, not totally true. It was much closer to a colony than a legit part of France like Lyon where everyone had a portfolio of rights and privileges
Israel have the right to defend themselves while Palestinians have a right to not exist.
Israel has a right to defend itself.
Hamas uses human shields.
There are tunnels under hospitals.
Are there any others?
You could well be right. Problem is bullshit is rife from the Israelis too.
In the early days of the Hamas attack I wrote and referenced event organisers article in a music magazine about what went on. They stated the attendees at the event were 20-40 year olds many who were IDF reservists. So military?
I suppose it's how one wants to label people. For example we had the x amount of Americans, English etc but these were dual nationals due to how it works with Israeli nationals. Similarly if they all were, are, or have been reservists then I would say military.
The friendly fire issue is gathering traction, even according to Israeli papers who are working over time to show it to be false. But that is their status quo and for me usually means something isn't right or it's the Israeli propaganda machine going into overdrive to create and keep a narrative.
Similarly the rape issue is one that is getting traction and "over reporting" in the last few days. Women's groups in Israel are coming out to say why is this being questioned etc.
Main issue seems to be that even though first presented as rapes and gang rapes happening now it's well we weren't able to check for rapes because bodies were burnt and/or buried. No samples were taken according to military and medical staff.
The inews24 woman first put the figure at 40 for beheaded babies, based on an interview she had with a military guy. Interview may still be available. Obviously now shown as false but it was used by virtually every Israeli friendly person from Biden to representatives on news and radio channels.
Don't know if we will ever know the truth but if IDF say it's Saturday I would still check the calendar as they are full of shit and lie all the time.
That's not how it works. If they were reservists, they were by definition civilians. You're not being nuanced by calling them military, you're just opening the door to disinformation. Nor are you being nuanced when you point out how untrustworthy the IDF is. Obviously they're untrustworthy. But that doesn't mean you have to consume and then spread misinformation. There's no causal link there.
Yes they did - it came from an Israeli source.
Source of dubious ‘beheaded babies’ claim is Israeli settler leader who incited riots to ‘wipe out’ Palestinian village
https://thegrayzone.com/2023/10/11/beheaded-israeli-babies-settler-wipe-out-palestinian/
The rape claim was also debunked.
Some of the Israeli dead came from indiscriminate firing from IDF / Israeli forces - there’s been Israeli survivor testimony that speaks to it, and I’ve shared that in the thread. How many, we don't know however.
I hope I don't get piled on for this, but can someone tell me why this sign of "Remember October 7, Hamas is ISIS" seem to have triggered the pro-Palestinian protestors in London to the point that they went after the guy just holding the poster and tried to beat and stab him?
The sign is just talking about Hamas' atrocities and how comparable to ISIS they were, why the outrage by protestors? Hamas is not Palestine ... The same way Islamic Republic is not Iran.
I know no one wants to hear it, but you guys in the UK have a lot more actually terrorism-supporting folks in your country than you realize. Good luck!
The sign is just talking about Hamas' atrocities and how comparable to ISIS they were, why the outrage by protestors? Hamas is not Palestine ... The same way Islamic Republic is not Iran.
I know no one wants to hear it, but you guys in the UK have a lot more actually terrorism-supporting folks in your country than you realize. Good luck!
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the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) told The Forward that it has no evidence that rape occurred during the raid or in its aftermath. Many journalistic outlets have walked back these claims as a result, though politicians in the United States and Israel have continued to repeat them.
It's still patently absurd to suggest that "most" were killed by the IDF, which is the claim.
A lot more terrorism supporting folks because 2 people tried to stop someone holding up a flag and eventually had others from the protest trying to stop them?
Where has the knife bit come from? Bit weird that he was recorded for so long, by different people, even had someone unmask him and yet there were no signs of a knife?
Putting aside the fact that the comparison is a bit pointless (the aims of such groups are entirely different, just as the aims of Taliban and ISIS are also not comparable, even though both groups are horrible), I never get the point of these people. You should be allowed to do what you want in peace of course. But in a march meant to be about the suffering of the Palestinian people in Gaza right now, what is this person hoping to achieve, other than as a gotcha he can post to social media when he inevitably provokes some idiot in a march full of hundreds of thousands of people? If someone went to a vigil held for the hostages currently held by Hamas and held up a sign saying Israel = apartheid, or Israel = Nakba or Israel = Sabra & Shatila, I'd also think they were total bloody idiots.
You're right, not totally true. It was much closer to a colony than a legit part of France like Lyon where everyone had a portfolio of rights and privileges
I want to agree with you but even that isn't totally true. Keep in mind that citizens rights in France were messed up until the 1960s. In reality not everyone had the same portfolio of rights, if you take the core issue which is voting rights, women, career militaries and then later muslim women were the last to get voting rights. An other thing in theory overseas men could demand french citizenship on an individual basis, it's just(and it's important) that it was not a systematic procedure which logically made it very difficult for anyone that was in rural area or had little education.
Also in colonies many men had access to full french citizenship without probably knowing it because precedents considered that they could be full citizens since the mid 1800s but how were they supposed to know that? Most of these issues were fixed in the late 1940s by an MP that was from those colonies, Lamine Guèye.
When I think about it, it's kind of funny. Even when the rights existed, governments were obfuscating things to the point that people probably had no clue.
Which bit is misinformation?
Yup - a few outlandish claims have been debunked. I find it weird that site staff are still parroting said claims though (or spreading them).
Most of the third that were non military was George's claim. Not most of all dead
The Iranian is right. Hamas and isis are the same, they were both backed by Israel at their inception.
I find it quite alarming that site staff are doing this and often amongst the first to comment when an opposing view is put forward.
I will wonder what would happen if a general poster suggested a staff member had an agenda instead of engaging with what was posted. An attack the post not the poster kind of thing?
I’ve no opinion on the rape claims, but literally the opening paragraph in the link you’ve provided states:
“The chief spokesperson of the Israel Defense Forces confirmed that rape and other atrocities were committed during the Oct. 7 terror attack in a televised statement Oct. 21, and other Israeli officials and civilian responders also described evidence of rape since this article was published.”
And yet you specifically repeated the claim that the IDF "could be responsible for killing the revellers at the festival", and then just now insinuated that the attendees were military. So clearly you think it's quite possible that the IDF killed more than just "non military".
With the headline that Biden claimed rape had been committed when IDF had no proof.
The proof was "found later" and is dodgy at best
I do believe the IDF killed more than non military.
Yasmin Porat interview suggests so. Unless it's been invalidated.
Tuvall says similar.
Stories emerging that some hostages taken by Palestinians, in their homes, were bombed killing all up to 2 days after the 7th.
According Max Blumenthal Israeli forces had orders to shell everything including their own bases.
Even i24, the ones behind the 40 babies, have reported about houses being bombed and lawns ripped apart by tanks.
Haaretz has released a list of over 600 Israelis killed in the attack. So far nearly 350 have been identified as military or police.
Could all be lies I guess.
Why are we once again going over what happened to the Israelis as if being brutally murdered by deranged people is somehow better than being raped, beheaded or whatever else by deranged people?
The truth is we may never know the full story about the horrific events of that day. Entire families were killed, so who was left to tell the story? What was recorded and what those that survived or were captured have told is enough.
The truth is we may never know the full story about the horrific events of that day. Entire families were killed, so who was left to tell the story? What was recorded and what those that survived or were captured have told is enough.
I say this with respect, but do be very careful of falling down the rabbit hole here.
Somehow I have been here for nearly 17 years, but I have seen a few posters embrace conspiracy theorising to their detriment.
Hamas are awful, shown by their treatment of other Palestinians who opposed them following the 2005 elections.
It is perfectly possible to accept that and acknowledge the historical role of Netanyahu and others in the government in emboldening the group to make a two state settlement impossible, and it is also possible to acknowledge that oppressing millions of people can lead to a number of them wanting to fight back.
What I would say is this - assume everything Hamas has been accused of is true. That to me would still not in any way justify the collective punishment of Palestinians, the acts of settlers endorsed by the Israeli government in the West Bank, the endless occupation, let alone what has happened in Gaza in the last month. That's the key point for me.
It doesn't matter what Hamas did. I'm much more concerned with testing the veracity of claims like Hamas controlling hospitals so making them a "legitimate target".
Thanks for posting.
I hate Hamas more than people know. I have my reasons and I won't go into it here. Suffice to say Id happily shoot Hamas leadership.
The issue for me, and always has been, is narratives that are adopted. Not just here but are actively taught. I think I mentioned before that as a young kid I was told off for not accepting Richard was a Lionheart and Aladdin was evil. That was the narrative of my history lesson days in school.
Maybe that's why I don't take things on face value or never have. I have views on everything from Ghandi to MLK to Imran Khan in Pakistan. I don't just take any of the narrative.
Could I be wrong? Sure probably am. But it's at least worth investigating some elements.
The problem here is as cnutish as Hamas clearly are the IDF is equal if not worse.