Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Revan said:
Israel's current government is full of religious alt-right crazies.
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So not on the fringes then? We essentially have ethno-fascists spearheading a genocide, being unapologetic about the human cost, and Israel's allies are all to happy to appease them.

I don't want to hear a single American or European politician lecture us on the evils of Russia, Iran or any other despotic nation when they're actively enabling the very same evil.
 
Gehrman said:
Is the translation of that tweet reliable? I mean the words of the minister.
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I don't speak Hebrew but as it's doing the rounds on socials and no Hebrew speaker has yet to shut it down it looks like it.
 
We were talking about the TV coverage in Germany. It is awfully biased, of course... But you have to salute Markus Lanz for having someone like Deborah Feldman in his show puting pressure on the Vice Chancellor (Lately it was more like crypto-islamophobe Mansour calling for the erasure of Gaza).

“I firmly believe that there is only one legitimate doctrine of the Holocaust. And that is the absolute unconditional defense of human rights for everyone. Point."



The longer version, where you can get automated translation from Youtube:

 
4bars said:
this will go over 20k deaths. will UEDA, FIFA and IOC suspend the Israel participation in its competitions? will be any international sanctions? exclusions? Any other country that would do what Israel is doing would be internationally punished
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Is Russia barred from Fifa tournaments?
 
Kaos said:
So not on the fringes then? We essentially have ethno-fascists spearheading a genocide, being unapologetic about the human cost, and Israel's allies are all to happy to appease them.

I don't want to hear a single American or European politician lecture us on the evils of Russia, Iran or any other despotic nation when they're actively enabling the very same evil.
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They are part of the majority and mainstream.
 
4bars said:
this will go over 20k deaths. will UEDA, FIFA and IOC suspend the Israel participation in its competitions? will be any international sanctions? exclusions? Any other country that would do what Israel is doing would be internationally punished
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I suspect not, which only plays into Russia's propaganda abut the West.
 
Raoul said:
I believe the ban was lifted for youth football, not the NT.
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The point was that yes Russia has been banned. Today it may be partial but they were totally banned until recently.
 
4bars said:
this will go over 20k deaths. will UEDA, FIFA and IOC suspend the Israel participation in its competitions? will be any international sanctions? exclusions? Any other country that would do what Israel is doing would be internationally punished
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No chance.
 
4bars said:
this will go over 20k deaths. will UEDA, FIFA and IOC suspend the Israel participation in its competitions? will be any international sanctions? exclusions? Any other country that would do what Israel is doing would be internationally punished
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The British government lambasted the FA for not lighting up Wembley in the colours of the Israeli flag, evidently sporting sanctions aren't even remotely a possibility. Not when Palestinian flags are now considered contraband in stadiums across Europe.
 
4bars said:
this will go over 20k deaths. will UEDA, FIFA and IOC suspend the Israel participation in its competitions? will be any international sanctions? exclusions? Any other country that would do what Israel is doing would be internationally punished
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Really??? Just checking to see if China is there? Yes. Iran? Looks like it. Pakistan is forcibly removing 1.7m refugees this week. Nope, they're still there. Saudi Arabia's brutal repression of Yemen causing more deaths than Israel - surely they'll be kicked out...? Oh no, the fecking world cup is being held there. Speaking of which, Argentina hosted a world cup despite being run by a brutal repressive junta.

And so it goes on. But Israel. It's different. It's uniquely evil. OK.
 
Kaos said:
The side that's currently engaged in a genocide by all conventional definitions?
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Just for the record, so were Hamas 3 weeks ago, and intending to continue doing so. Again, as per conventional definitions.
 
Drizzle said:
Just for the record, so were Hamas 3 weeks ago, and intending to continue doing so. Again, as per conventional definitions.
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The difference being one side is currently succeeding based on the sheer attritional loss of life and displacement they're achieving. Hamas' act of terror regardless of its brutality and intention hardly matches the scale of the atrocity currently being engineered by Israel, one that incidentally started decades ago long before Hama's foundation, and one that continues this very second and a rapidly, unprecedented level of intent.
 
Drizzle said:
Really??? Just checking to see if China is there? Yes. Iran? Looks like it. Pakistan is forcibly removing 1.7m refugees this week. Nope, they're still there. Saudi Arabia's brutal repression of Yemen causing more deaths than Israel - surely they'll be kicked out...? Oh no, the fecking world cup is being held there. Speaking of which, Argentina hosted a world cup despite being run by a brutal repressive junta.

And so it goes on. But Israel. It's different. It's uniquely evil. OK.
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You have absolutely a point here.

But also yes, Israel is different. is fully backed up and even promote his idea of "self defense" and is the Palestinian flags that are banned
 
Kaos said:
The difference being one side is currently succeeding based on the sheer attritional loss of life and displacement they're achieving. Hamas' act of terror regardless of its brutality and intention hardly matches the scale of the atrocity currently being engineered by Israel, one that incidentally started decades ago long before Hama's foundation, and one that continues this very second and a rapidly, unprecedented level of intent.
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Thats fine, but my original comment stands. If you think Israel is run by 'ethnofascist' genocidal thugs, then you'll agree so are Hamas. Only yesterday its leader reiterated their intention to wipe out Israel.
 
Drizzle said:
Just for the record, so were Hamas 3 weeks ago, and intending to continue doing so. Again, as per conventional definitions.
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Again,

HAMAS terrorist group

If you equate

Israel state....Terrorist state then?

If we are talking about conventional definitions...
 
Dr. StrangeHate said:
Seems sensible. Along the same lines, I don't think national teams should be barred from competitions for the actions of their state.
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Agree on that. Or at least ban only the ones that express support to the war crimes. Was just comparing the 2 situations. But again, 2 wrongs doesnt make it right and I am not asking for Israel sportmen/women to be banned. Just the difference on conflict and the other
 
Gehrman said:
Is the translation of that tweet reliable? I mean the words of the minister.
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I can't speak Hebrew, but you can do a google translate of pictures. If you break it down by taking photographs of the various excerpts you'll find Google translates it as:

"The north of Gaza Strip, more beautiful than ever. Everything is blown up and flattened, simply a pleasure for the eyes" (soldier in Gaza)

We have to talk about the day after. In my mind's eye we are giving out lots to all those who fought for Gaza over the years and to those who were evicted from Gush Katif - B.A.
(no dimensions)
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So the first part is presented as a quote from a soldier I guess. The second one I've no idea what "B.A." could mean or "(no dimensions)".
 
Drizzle said:
Thats fine, but my original comment stands. If you think Israel is run by 'ethnofascist' genocidal thugs, then you'll agree so are Hamas. Only yesterday its leader reiterated their intention to wipe out Israel.
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I never once claimed otherwise. But I don't think any connotations of who's currently culpable for a genocide are as ambiguous as you'd claim them to be, from a numbers and balance of power perspective it should be very clear who I was referring to. There are dozens of terrorist factions in the world with nefarious goals, but thankfully they don't have the power and resources to successfully act on them. Unfortunately thats not the same case for an ethno-fascist military superpower that's seemingly received carte blanche to fast track their attempts at essentially cleansing a population under the guises of defending themselves, and with the blessing of the so-called democratic world.
 
4bars said:
Again,

HAMAS terrorist group

If you equate

Israel state....Terrorist state then?

If we are talking about conventional definitions...
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Yes, their words and actions are fully backing each other. There is no doubt anymore.
 
Kaos said:
I never once claimed otherwise. But I don't think any connotations of who's currently culpable for a genocide are as ambiguous as you'd claim them to be, from a numbers and balance of power perspective it should be very clear who I was referring to. There are dozens of terrorist factions in the world with nefarious goals, but thankfully they don't have the power and resources to successfully act on them. Unfortunately thats not the same case for an ethno-fascist military superpower that's seemingly received carte blanche to fast track their attempts at essentially cleansing a population under the guises of defending themselves, and with the blessing of the so-called democratic world.
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This has got a bit out of hand. A reminder. You said
Kaos said:
We essentially have ethno-fascists spearheading a genocide, being unapologetic about the human cost
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And I replied
Drizzle said:
Genuinely didn't know which side you were talking about there.
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OK I was being a bit glib, but I don't think my point was incredibly controversial.
 
Drizzle said:
This has got a bit out of hand. A reminder. You said

And I replied


OK I was being a bit glib, but I don't think my point was incredibly controversial.
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Fair. I wasn't meaning to have a go at you, in all honesty I thought you were being deflective by making some pedantic whatabouttery post about Hamas.
 
Drizzle said:
Thats fine, but my original comment stands. If you think Israel is run by 'ethnofascist' genocidal thugs, then you'll agree so are Hamas. Only yesterday its leader reiterated their intention to wipe out Israel.
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I honestly just don't understand what you are trying to gain from your posts in this thread. Everyone that is regularly posting in this thread has agreed with that general point, has called Hamas a terrorist organisation, and talked about what a horrible tragedy 7/10 was. Hamas aren't still in Israel killing people, though. Israel are wiping out thousands of innocent people and there's no sign of them stopping, their government are celebrating it online and on tv, and you still feel the need to 'both sides' every comment someone makes about it. It makes no sense. Israel are supposed to be a first world democracy abiding by the international laws set out by such countries, yet you feel the constant need to compare them to a literal terrorist organisation.
 
Conor said:
I honestly just don't understand what you are trying to gain from your posts in this thread. Everyone that is regularly posting in this thread has agreed with that general point, has called Hamas a terrorist organisation, and talked about what a horrible tragedy 7/10 was. Hamas aren't still in Israel killing people, though. Israel are wiping out thousands of innocent people and there's no sign of them stopping, their government are celebrating it online and on tv, and you still feel the need to 'both sides' every comment someone makes about it. It makes no sense. Israel are supposed to be a first world democracy abiding by the international laws set out by such countries, yet you feel the constant need to compare them to a literal terrorist organisation.
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What do I 'gain' from my posts? What a weird point. I'm just doing what you're doing. Talking about a difficult situation. Obviously from a slightly different perspective. Sorry if my view upsets you or bores you. I know the majority of posters here probably disagree with me, goodness knows I get shouted down quite a bit, but hopefully we can broadly accept differing views. Otherwise it's just an echo chamber.
 
UN experts say ceasefire needed as Palestinians at 'grave risk of genocide' - Reuters.

I really don't recall ever seeing such direct statements from UN bodies or other international organisations like the Red Cross in years as the statements that have been made in the past few days about Gaza. It's really making it hit home just how unprecedented the scale of the violence against Gaza's civilians is.
 
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