Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

2mufc0 said:
The Muslim world won't forget for sure, there's a massive disconnect between the rulers of these countries and their people's views, eventually these puppet regimes will fall and can see the issue likely starting the next world war. This could all be prevented with the US withdrawing unconditional support and Israel adhering to international law.
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In 1967 the arab world wanted Israel to disappear but they couldn't do anything against Israel army. Egypt and Jordan has normalized relationship with them, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco have bilateral agreements since 2020. Before October 7th Saudi Arabia was about to recognize Israel pretty soon. This will only put this a bit of step back. Palestinia is a nuisance for the arab world currently because they would like to have relationships with a powerhouse in the region, but hey, religion. The Muslim world in power don't care and will care less when Palestine will disappear
 
owlo said:
Biden is doing a good job keeping a lid on it right now. All the agitation is coming from Iran. They need dealt with, but hopefully after this, not concurrently to it. More will likely die in that conflict than this one, but it needs done.

Other than that it's mostly civil disobedience; most nations realise that Israel don't have much more of a choice than Palestinians in this. I just wish they could find a way to lower the brutality of it all.
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What an idiotic post. Not really surprising given it’s you.
 
Raoul said:
It wouldn't been much simpler if Hamas simply didn't attack the Israelis and kill 1,300 of their citizens three weeks ago. If not for that, none of what is happening right now would be happening. It was all very predictable from the start when Hamas went into Israel.
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Allow Israel to behave like terrorists because they were targeted by terrorists is always an interesting line of thought.
 
owlo said:
No?



Name a country that would have reacted differently to 1300 people being slaughtered in a day, by an enemy less than a kilometre from its border. Every major nation would react the same.
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THIS-DIDN'T-STARTED-ON-OCTOBER-7TH
 
2mufc0 said:
The Muslim world won't forget for sure, there's a massive disconnect between the rulers of these countries and their people's views, eventually these puppet regimes will fall and can see the issue likely starting the next world war.
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The Muslim world is not a single united block to oppose any western powers. World war cannot be started by a bunch of small nations. Nations having excellent trade and arms relation with West are not gonna fight them.
 
maniak said:
I prefer to name Israel as a criminal state for what they're doing now instead of talking about hypotheticals. The idea Israel has no choice but to keep killing children by the thousands is a sign that you've lost all perspective and should rethink how you look at this.
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It's simply the reality. Not uncaring or cruel or condoning it. You hit a state like that, they will react like this.
 
Raoul said:
It wouldn't been much simpler if Hamas simply didn't attack the Israelis and kill 1,300 of their citizens three weeks ago. If not for that, none of what is happening right now would be happening. It was all very predictable from the start when Hamas went into Israel.
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Come on Raoul you know this issue didn't 3 weeks ago. You're just gaslighting now.

How long have the US allowed the Palestinians to live with boots to their necks, allowing Israel to break so many resolutions and turn a blind eye to illegal settlements? How many vetoes when on the wrong side of the fence?
 
maniak said:
Allow Israel to behave like terrorists because they were targeted by terrorists is always an interesting line of thought.
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That doesn't negate the reality of what has transpired over the past three weeks. The weaker side doesn't get to behave as Hamas did and not expect an overwhelming response.
 
owlo said:
It's simply the reality. Not uncaring or cruel or condoning it. You hit a state like that, they will react like this.
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The basque terrorist killed almost 200 people in Spain in 1 day in 2004 and they didn't bomb the basque region. No one was shot, no one died and the terrorists were imbedded in the territory like Hamas
 
Drizzle said:
Back what up?

And by the way, it wasn't specifically a swipe at posters here, but some sections of the anti-Israel protests.

You may be right about the hostages, but I have a feeling that Israel is persuadable on this as they aren't as ready for this fight as they'd like to be.
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1) That very few people care that much about the hostages, including those who cast themselves as defenders of the innocent.
2) That if Hamas released all of them, there would be enough pressure for a ceasefire.

There probably may not be as much focus on the hostages as you'd like because, as scummy as Hamas are in so many ways, as far as I'm aware (and happy to be corrected if wrong), I don't think they tend to kill hostages. Whereas we are likely to see at least tens of thousands of deaths and people are no longer talking about ethnic cleaning as a random hypothetical from fringe elements but a very genuine possibility.
 
2mufc0 said:
Come on Raoul you know this issue didn't 3 weeks ago. You're just gaslighting now.

How long have the US allowed the Palestinians to live with boots to their necks, allowing Israel to break so many resolutions and turn a blind eye to illegal settlements? How many vetoes when on the wrong side of the fence?
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The overall issue didn't start 3 weeks ago, but Oct 7 was a massive inflection point - just as 9.11 was a big turning point in how the US dealt with similar threats.
 
owlo said:
No?



Name a country that would have reacted differently to 1300 people being slaughtered in a day, by an enemy less than a kilometre from its border. Every major nation would react the same.
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Why do people keep talking like Israel is like any other normal country and has the right to act accordingly? Your government has, literally, tortured and imprisoned these people on an industrial scale for half a century.
 
RedDevil@84 said:
The Muslim world is not a single united block to oppose any western powers. World war cannot be started by a bunch of small nations. Nations having excellent trade and arms relation with West are not gonna fight them.
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Again you are confusing puppet regimes and monarchies placed by those very foreign powers with the people. They will eventually fall - they always do, the issue will cause massive destabilisation in the region if not a world war.
 
Brown Toothpick said:
Israel commiting genocide all while the world is sitting silently. History won't look back at us nicely.
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No, this isn't genocide. I don't really want to quibble over words when there is such suffering occurring, but this word has a specific meaning. I don't accept that what is happening here - which are brutal, horrible, terrible things - is the same thing.
 
owlo said:
No?



Name a country that would have reacted differently to 1300 people being slaughtered in a day, by an enemy less than a kilometre from its border. Every major nation would react the same.
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Name a country that has kept 2 million people in an open air prison for the best part of 20 years.
 
4bars said:
The basque terrorist killed almost 200 people in Spain in 1 day in 2004 and they didn't bomb the basque region. No one was shot, no one died and the terrorists were imbedded in the territory like Hamas
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That was a single bomb. Horrific but it's within our scope of terrorism in Europe.

If the basque terrorists marauded into a few Spanish towns and livestreamed the slaughter and rape of 1400 people and then took 200 hostages, I think you'd find the response would have been very very different.
 
Raoul said:
That doesn't negate the reality of what has transpired over the past three weeks. The weaker side doesn't get to behave as Hamas did and not expect an overwhelming response.
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You're right, the thousands of children murdered by Israel should not have attacked Israel.
 
Raoul said:
The overall issue didn't start 3 weeks ago, but Oct 7 was a massive inflection point - just as 9.11 was a big turning point in how the US dealt with similar threats.
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US didn't occupy saudi arabia, stablishing themselves as occupied US land, putting them in miserable living conditions and killing them by the hundreds including children before the 15 saudi terrorists caused 9/11
 
2mufc0 said:
Again you are confusing puppet regimes and monarchies placed by those very foreign powers with the people. They will eventually fall - they always do, the issue will cause massive destabilisation in the region if not a world war.
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If one puppet falls, the foreign nations will find a new puppet to install. If they can't find any puppet, they will find WMD in that country and invade and destroy civilian lives and install puppet leaders.
 
4bars said:
In 1967 the arab world wanted Israel to disappear but they couldn't do anything against Israel army. Egypt and Jordan has normalized relationship with them, United Arab Emirates, Bahrain, Sudan, and Morocco have bilateral agreements since 2020. Before October 7th Saudi Arabia was about to recognize Israel pretty soon. This will only put this a bit of step back. Palestinia is a nuisance for the arab world currently because they would like to have relationships with a powerhouse in the region, but hey, religion. The Muslim world in power don't care and will care less when Palestine will disappear
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These are governments normalising relations, go speak to the people in these countries and ask them what they think about it. The same way these puppet regimes have been normalising they can easily be reversed.
 
Drizzle said:
That was a single bomb. Horrific but it's within our scope of terrorism in Europe.

If the basque terrorists marauded into a few Spanish towns and livestreamed the slaughter and rape of 1400 people and then took 200 hostages, I think you'd find the response would have been very very different.
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No it would not. I can guarantee that. Not a single bomb would happen. And if numbers are so important. 1400 hamas kills vs 7000 israeli kills (and more. So the spanish government if 200 were killed, should be killing at a ratio 1 to 5....mmmm. 1000 bascs?

Also, the basque country is probably the most thriving region in spain, Gazza is a fecking concentration camp. Not condoning what Hamas did, but what do you expect?
 
"Hamas terrorism was bad, but because of the last 50 years, Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself"

May as well just say you support Hamas and their attack, because without the response it'd happen again and again. And you get the distinct feeling many here would enjoy that.
 
2mufc0 said:
These are governments normalising relations, go speak to the people in these countries and ask them what they think about it. The same way these puppet regimes have been normalising they can easily be reversed.
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And what these people can do? nothing. like UK majority of the population against the Iraq war didn't stop the government. neither in Spain. Do you think people in Spain or UK keeps talking of the injustice or even know remotely what is going on in Iraq? and only 20 years after. Same will happen with Israel in a few decades
 
owlo said:
"Hamas terrorism was bad, but because of the last 50 years, Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself"

May as well just say you support Hamas and their attack, because without the response it'd happen again and again. And you get the distinct feeling many here would enjoy that.
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Is a version of play stupid games win stupid prizes. We will never condone what hamas did, but no one would think that this could be as unexpected the way israel has been treating Palestine
 
4bars said:
US didn't occupy saudi arabia, stablishing themselves as occupied US land, putting them in miserable living conditions and killing them by the hundreds including children before the 15 saudi terrorists caused 9/11
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It had nothing to do with Saudi, then nation. There were also Emiratis, Egyptians, and Lebanese among the hijackers.
 
4bars said:
And what these people can do? nothing. like UK majority of the population against the Iraq war didn't stop the government. neither in Spain. Do you think people in Spain or UK keeps talking of the injustice or even know remotely what is going on in Iraq? and only 20 years after. Same will happen with Israel in a few decades
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The legacy of the Iraq war is not forgotten, it's mentioned so often. There's no way another ground invasion will happen like Iraq again for a while, there is no political will after the deceit of the previous invasion.
 
4bars said:
Is a version of play stupid games win stupid prizes. We will never condone what hamas did, but no one would think that this could be as unexpected the way israel has been treating Palestine
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The irony you can say that, yet not understand the rationale for this Israeli retaliation against Hamas.
 
Israel are only creating more desperation and therefore more terrorists. Unless they manage to wipeout every gazans, West Bank palestinians and then target all refugees in Jordan. They are giving people the justification for a century of terror.
 
2mufc0 said:
The legacy of the Iraq war is not forgotten, it's mentioned so often. There's no way another ground invasion will happen like Iraq again for a while, there is no political will after the deceit of the previous invasion.
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Legacy. Maybe for the people of +35 years old onwards because we lived it. And also, people that are interested in politics. for the younger generations is considered history
 
owlo said:
The irony you can say that, yet not understand the rationale for this Israeli retaliation against Hamas.
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Oh I understand Israeli retaliation so well seeing how they had been treating Palestinians. Didn't expect anything mildler. But that doesn't make it right, like doesn't make it right what Hamas did

But you condone what israel is doing. You only say that you hope they would not do it, but "oh well. is their right"
 
Is it only me who doesn't remember Basque terrorists killing 200 people in one day?
 
Raoul said:
It wouldn't been much simpler if Hamas simply didn't attack the Israelis and kill 1,300 of their citizens three weeks ago. If not for that, none of what is happening right now would be happening. It was all very predictable from the start when Hamas went into Israel.
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Hi Raoul, I'm wondering as I read this post. When you hear "Israel's occupation", what are the 3 worst of worst aspects of it for Palestinian civilians, in your view?
 
2cents said:
Is it only me who doesn't remember Basque terrorists killing 200 people in one day?
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193

Same question will happen with some people in 20-30 years about Hamas attack and Israel retaliation. Who remember the deaths from Yom Kippur? I dont. Who did know about Yom Kippur before this...it floated my head but didn't know the exact date and what exactly happened and I consider myself slightly more interested in politics that the people I usually interact with.

Probably I would remember If I would be alive when happened but not. I surely remember this event. But new generations? History, reality is what matters
 
4bars said:
The basque terrorist killed almost 200 people in Spain in 1 day in 2004 and they didn't bomb the basque region. No one was shot, no one died and the terrorists were imbedded in the territory like Hamas
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Are you referring to the 2004 Madrid train bombings? Because I don't think they are officially seen as the ones responsible, even though they were accused at first.
 
Super Hans said:
Hi Raoul, I'm wondering as I read this post. When you hear "Israel's occupation", what are the 3 worst of worst aspects of it for Palestinian civilians, in your view?
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Lack of employment (near 50% unemployment rate), mobility (very difficult to travel), and incoherent governance.
 
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