Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

I have probably a dumb question but was hoping someone might have a sensible answer for me.

Why doesnt the Israeli Govt stop the settlers taking Palestinian land?
Because it's been part of the Israeli policy.

Settlements in the West Bank are by definition illegal but everyone turns a blind eye so the israeli government takes advantage of it.

Settle, settle and settle, atomize the West Bank until the very idea of a Palestinian state becomes simply impossible to even define, and the world acknowledges it as a "fait accompli".
 
Government members are still democratically elected and, as others more knowledgeable than me mentioned, the Arab Israelis can be part of the Parliament.

Israel has about 15M population, with around half of them being Palestinians. Out of that, only about 1.7M have Israeli citizenship, and can vote. The rest around 5.5M who live in Gaza/West Bank cannot.

Although Palestinians living in Israel can vote, there has been a long history of political suppression of Palestinian voices and parties, and also discriminatory laws and systemic oppression, which ensure that Palestinians dont have the same rights. In reality, they have very little to no influence on policy.

Palestinians living under occupation in the the West Bank and Gaza cant even participate in elections.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/not-vibrant-democracy-apartheid
 
It’s a democracy in a very loose sense of the word. Netanyuhu has been PM since 2009 barring 1.5 years. That wouldn’t happen in any real Western democracy where you’re allowed at most 2 terms. The other thing is - he’s still has charges of corruption, bribery and a few things against him (before he came PM this recent time). He wouldn’t be allowed to stand in any real Western democracy.

As PM? I'm not aware of any countries where that is the case. The most famous PM in Norwegian history, Einar Gerhardsen (the "father of the nation"), sat for a total of 16 years.

Netanyahu is extremely problematic in many ways, but just being PM for a long time is bot automatically one of them.
 
Israel has about 15M population, with around half of them being Palestinians. Out of that, only about 1.7M have Israeli citizenship, and can vote. The rest around 5.5M who live in Gaza/West Bank cannot.

Although Palestinians living in Israel can vote, there has been a long history of political suppression of Palestinian voices and parties, and also discriminatory laws and systemic oppression, which ensure that Palestinians dont have the same rights. In reality, they have very little to no influence on policy.

Palestinians living under occupation in the the West Bank and Gaza cant even participate in elections.

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/not-vibrant-democracy-apartheid
Huh? Israel's population is about 9,5 million.
 
I might have missed this, but why are Hamas not releasing the hostages? Surely that's the first step towards stopping this assault?
 
To be completely frank here, I literally couldn't care less what you doubt. If you can't do a quick google and find search out about Hamas, their charter and their mission... then I've no interest to spoon feed it to you.

Not supporting Hamas is a very easy bar to clear. If you can't do that, there's not much to talk about.

You know what I was being too diplomatic actually, I don't just doubt it but I'm completely against such a nonsensical notion as the insinuation and equivocation of Palestinian resistance actions with the war crimes and crimes against humanity of the Zionist apartheid state of Israel. If you can't clear the far easier bar of not accusing an occupied and besieged people with wanting to invade their own land, indeed there isn't much to talk about and I wouldn't be interested anyway, jog on.
 
I have probably a dumb question but was hoping someone might have a sensible answer for me.

Why doesnt the Israeli Govt stop the settlers taking Palestinian land?

Long story short, Israel considers the land won in the 1967 war as their land. That includes West Bank and Gaza. They don't want to incorporate 3m Arabs in their state with full citizen rights, as that would alter the demographics of the state significantly. So not only do they not stop the settlers, they aid and abet them. They are banking on the Palestinian Arabs eventually becoming refugees in some neighbouring Arab country while Jews fully take over the land.
 
Not just Taba, but Nuweiba too has been targeted this morning:

I'd be perplexed if it was Israel that launched the rockets. There's what appears to be a fighter jet and not a drone in the video, though it is suggested that this could be a US jet responding / shooting down potential drone.

For context: both Taba and Nuweiba are hippie tourist resorts, and in normal times both are full of Israelis on holiday. Israel recently told all its citizens to leave Egypt, and these are the two places where Israelis would've been.
 
I have probably a dumb question but was hoping someone might have a sensible answer for me.

Why doesnt the Israeli Govt stop the settlers taking Palestinian land?
While the first settlers were religious nutcases who went them on their own, for the last 30 years or so, settling West Bank has been a plan of Israeli various governments. Ariel Sharon was probably the main architect of that, and Bibi followed with even more intensity.

They encourage settlers to go to the West Bank because ultimately, the plan is to do an ethnic cleansing. After Gaza is 'cleared' expect the West Bank situation to quickly deteriorate.
 
Long story short, Israel considers the land won in the 1967 war as their land. That includes West Bank and Gaza. They don't want to incorporate 3m Arabs in their state with full citizen rights, as that would alter the demographics of the state significantly. So not only do they not stop the settlers, they aid and abet them. They are banking on the Palestinian Arabs eventually becoming refugees in some neighbouring Arab country while Jews fully take over the land.
That's partially correct. They do not consider Gaza as their own land, it is why they unilaterally withdrew from Gaza. However, they consider it a security concern (to a large degree Egypt does the same), which is why both them and Egypt have put a total blockade in Gaza (probably even worse when it comes to Egypt considering that maybe half of Gazans are Egyptians).

While formally, the do not consider West Bank their own land, in practice they do. Especially when it comes to Zone C which at this stage is as Israel as anything in Israel, and likely, soon Zone B will be the same.
 
I think a lot of the Americans there are dual citizens and are viewed more as Israelis in this particular context.

I'm confident a lot of the social media discourse is part a well curated online attack to create division. It's got a lot of similarities to 2016 and is successfully turning the head of large portions of poc and newly eligible young voters that live online away from the "social progressive" democratic party
 
Obviously hyperbolic to an extent..but is he entirely wrong on this?


US has abandoned private citizens in war torn countries in the past. I think Syria few years back and Sudan this year. Only the diplomats and families are rescued. Many were rescued by countries like India who were evacuating their nationals.
 
I might have missed this, but why are Hamas not releasing the hostages? Surely that's the first step towards stopping this assault?
You may have noticed very few people seem to care that much about the hostages. Including those who cast themselves as defenders of the innocent.

And yes, if Hamas offered to release all of them, I think that may provide enough of a lever for the US and others to pressure Israel into a ceasefire. So once again, Hamas is choosing the death of its own people rather than give way on its nefarious goals of power and glory.
 
Or they are viewed as Jews more then Americans.

Its obvious they would be Jews given they are Israeli and American. The tweet is also particularly non-sensical given that the US has already gotten Americans out of Gaza by using Qatar as an intermediary.
 
You may have noticed very few people seem to care that much about the hostages. Including those who cast themselves as defenders of the innocent.

And yes, if Hamas offered to release all of them, I think that may provide enough of a lever for the US and others to pressure Israel into a ceasefire. So once again, Hamas is choosing the death of its own people rather than give way on its nefarious goals of power and glory.

Can you back this up? You make a lot of sweeping comments on this thread, with a not so subtle swipe at various posters you won't name without much actual evidence?

There's also no way that Israel goes from its current rhetoric to agreeing to a ceasefire, with the release of hostages. There is going to be blood, a lot of it.
 
You may have noticed very few people seem to care that much about the hostages. Including those who cast themselves as defenders of the innocent.

And yes, if Hamas offered to release all of them, I think that may provide enough of a lever for the US and others to pressure Israel into a ceasefire. So once again, Hamas is choosing the death of its own people rather than give way on its nefarious goals of power and glory.

I think we are far beyond the point of Hamas calling the shots on a ceasefire.
 
Can you back this up? You make a lot of sweeping comments on this thread, with a not so subtle swipe at various posters you won't name without much actual evidence?

There's also no way that Israel goes from its current rhetoric to agreeing to a ceasefire, with the release of hostages. There is going to be blood, a lot of it.
Back what up?

And by the way, it wasn't specifically a swipe at posters here, but some sections of the anti-Israel protests.

You may be right about the hostages, but I have a feeling that Israel is persuadable on this as they aren't as ready for this fight as they'd like to be.
 
Directly yes, but via Qatari intermediaries I'd say they still have some leverage, especially in regards to the hostage situation.

I'm sure the Qataris can help as intermediaries, but a ceasefire would only bring back Israeli hostages, not address the 7 Oct attack and subsequent policy of removing Hamas entirely to prevent similar future attacks.
 
I might have missed this, but why are Hamas not releasing the hostages? Surely that's the first step towards stopping this assault?

For what it's worth Al Jazeera are currently claiming that Qatari mediated negotiations for a ceasefire in return for release of hostages is at an "advanced stage". I guess that's at least something. God knows how accurate it is though. @Raoul's point that the release of hostages would not represent recompense for the atrocities of October 7th is certainly a strong one.
 
I think I have come to the point where I have little or no expectation for this or the other. I am getting to what I think is the metal level, essential, point. I think that, those that desire that destruction of a nation, those that sing "from the river to their mother" I think that this conflict has made manifest those that only pretended to care about European values, and those that do not; those that will defend baby killing.
 
The ground assault seems to have started.

Internet and all communications from Gaza just got cut off, amongst an unprecedented level of bombing.
 
For what it's worth Al Jazeera are currently claiming that Qatari mediated negotiations for a ceasefire in return for release of hostages is at an "advanced stage". I guess that's at least something. God knows how accurate it is though. @Raoul's point that the release of hostages would not represent recompense for the atrocities of October 7th is certainly a strong one.
A ceasefire doesn't mean that Israel won't still come for Hamas. But it may need to use different means. Or the same means, just later on.
 
The ground assault seems to have started.

Internet and all communications from Gaza just got cut off, amongst an unprecedented level of bombing.
There is a post somewhere mentioning the Israeli leadership/military saying that this would happen when they decide to go in.

It's going to be a blood bath.
 
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