Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

2mufc0 said:
How can voting against this be justified.
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This is politics and foreign affairs. Voting with an other country can be leveraged at a later date on a topic that concerns you.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
On a day like this I wonder what pro-Israeli posters are even complaining about.

You are going to materially "win" this. Israel will get rid of almost ten thousand Palestinians of all stripes. They'll cause serious damage to Hamas. The United States and Europe will ensure that there are no serious consequences to this depravity. This is hardly in any doubt.

What is the complaint? That you'll get called names while this happens?
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I don’t get it as well. They have every material positive here. It seems like they won’t be satisfied unless they get all of this plus the citizens of every nation in the world saying that they are right to do this.
 
So many vile, shameless and coward countries. Not voting for it while Israel is committing genocide and thousands of people and children are dying.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
On a day like this I wonder what pro-Israeli posters are even complaining about.

You are going to materially "win" this. Israel will get rid of almost ten thousand Palestinians of all stripes. They'll cause serious damage to Hamas. The United States and Europe will ensure that there are no serious consequences to this depravity. This is hardly in any doubt.

What is the complaint? That you'll get called names while this happens?
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Nobody wins this. You think Israelis are loving this? It's a living nightmare. Reminder. 1400 Israelis were slaughtered on livestream. You can't wave it away or expect Israel to. And hundreds of their men are probably going to die in the next couple of days, maybe thousands. Nobody's winning this.

And as for the calling names comment, dear me.
 
marktan said:
Just to clarify, you do realise that most Syrian rebel groups, including the free Syrian army and Isis, received significant military and financial backing from the US?

Obama even got funding approved for them in the congress.
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I know that. Why did you in your post leave out that Syrians rose up against Assad though?
 
2mufc0 said:
These are governments normalising relations, go speak to the people in these countries and ask them what they think about it. The same way these puppet regimes have been normalising they can easily be reversed.
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Hopefully misreading this but are you saying Israel is in serious danger and the relations it has forged with former enemies give a false sense of security? The real danger comes from the civilians?

Sorry if I've missed some further context.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
On a day like this I wonder what pro-Israeli posters are even complaining about.

You are going to materially "win" this. Israel will get rid of almost ten thousand Palestinians of all stripes. They'll cause serious damage to Hamas. The United States and Europe will ensure that there are no serious consequences to this depravity. This is hardly in any doubt.

What is the complaint? That you'll get called names while this happens?
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It's hardly happy days when thousands of people are dying is it. Or when terrorist settlers in the west bank are taking advantage. Or that anti semitism is sky high. And when there is absolutely no hope for the region, any hope of peace or two states is destroyed. It's thoroughly depressing.

JPRouve said:
This is politics and foreign affairs. Voting with an other country can be leveraged at a later date on a topic that concerns you.
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Almost all of the West voted against or abstained. France, Spain, Portugal, and Belgium(?) voted for, but you can imagine if it was a vote that mattered they wouldn't have done. And a few tiny countries that are essentially western proxies voted with their masters.The interesting ones are Ethiopia and South Sudan. Maybe @africanspur knows about those.
 
marktan said:
Ah Syria
- We don't like Assad (links to Iran), regime change time!
- Bay of Pigs iteration 50, let's fund an independent rebel army to create instability
- Oh wait some of them have become ISIS
- Oh wait Russia is intervening to help Assad
- Ah well the rebels we funded didn't manage to overthrow Assad, might as well keep them there anyway to wreck havock on the country

Now we may as well get an excuse to send the US military in and finish the job properly. Have Americans and Syrians die for no reason. Who does that benefit? Ah yes, good ole Israel
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Ah yes, it's the rebels who are living in terror, the US, and Israel to blame for this situation.

Not Chemical Assad, Russia the weapons range practices, and Iran the regional instability vortex to blame.

But you care about Palestinian lives.
 
JagUTD said:
Hopefully misreading this but are you saying Israel is in serious danger and the relations it has forged with former enemies give a false sense of security? The real danger comes from the civilians?

Sorry if I've missed some further context.
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No. What I'm saying is these government decisions to normalise are not representative of the people's wishes and can be reversed in the future when a government representative of the people is in power.
 
Any idea why Iraq abstained?
 
africanspur said:


Classic
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It gives an idea about how Europe is divided, unable to unanimously vote on the simple human and decent thing to do, and why it will never have a voice on international matters again. Cowards, the lot of them (who abstained or worse, voted against).

Also quite incredible to see states like the Marshall Islands, Nauru, Micronesia, Papua or Tonga voting against.
 
Interesting if true, considering the discussion here earlier. I still feel Israel wants a way out of this.

 
this was a few hours ago, before the shutdown, but this is probably the place where they keep citizenship records. it was targeted for bombing a few hours after releasing a pdf with the records of all those killed.



also



a destruction of memory and culture, to go with the destruction of the people
 
marktan said:
Ah Syria
- We don't like Assad (links to Iran), regime change time!
- Bay of Pigs iteration 50, let's fund an independent rebel army to create instability
- Oh wait some of them have become ISIS
- Oh wait Russia is intervening to help Assad
- Ah well the rebels we funded didn't manage to overthrow Assad, might as well keep them there anyway to wreck havock on the country

Now we may as well get an excuse to send the US military in and finish the job properly. Have Americans and Syrians die for no reason. Who does that benefit? Ah yes, good ole Israel
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You forgot to add - create a migration crisis and complain when all these dirty Arabs are coming into my country in droves. Why don't they just leave us alone !
 
Drizzle said:
Interesting if true, considering the discussion here earlier. I still feel Israel wants a way out of this.

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Literal inversion of reality. Here is the al-Arabiya report:

An official of the militant Hamas group conditioned the release of hostages in Gaza to a ceasefire in Israel’s bombardment of the Palestinian enclave, launched after a deadly rampage into southern Israel nearly three weeks ago.
https://english.alarabiya.net/News/...-to-ceasefire-in-Israel-s-bombardment-of-Gaza
 
Raoul said:
Torture on a eye watering scale ? Can't say it does. Having an unelected terrorist organization speaking for all Palestinians in Gaza is definitely a problem though. One has to ask whether Gazans are better off today off in the present than when Hamas took over 16 years ago.
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Do you mean you don’t think it happened? That is how they cowed the occupied population. Routine torture. Torture was actually legal in Israel until 1999. Thousands upon thousands were tortured during the overwhelmingly unarmed first intifada. They’d torture people into giving up their mates then they’d torture the mates. Did you read this by Ari Shavit? https://archive.ph/2021.05.10-035552/https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1991/07/18/on-gaza-beach/ Originally posted by Murder on zidane’s
Floor
 
nickm said:
No, this isn't genocide. I don't really want to quibble over words when there is such suffering occurring, but this word has a specific meaning. I don't accept that what is happening here - which are brutal, horrible, terrible things - is the same thing.
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It is absolutely genocide. It is an ongoing attempt to rid a geographic area of a population group. Israeli politicians state as much routinely and have done for years if not decades.

It is genocide, ethnic cleansing, etc. I take your point that these are heavy words, but they are absolutely applicable in the matter at hand.
 
Raoul said:
That doesn't negate the reality of what has transpired over the past three weeks. The weaker side doesn't get to behave as Hamas did and not expect an overwhelming response.
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What would your response be if I ask "Does Israel get to do what Israel does on a daily basis to Palestinians, and not expect an event like October 7th?"

I know that reads a bit smarmy on my part - I truly mean the question in a genuine and literal sense, nothing more.
 
Giggsyking said:
So why did the us invade iraq? Had iraq anything to do with 9/11?
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Based on my understanding, it was a confluence of miscalculation and bad policy aided by terrible (and probably manipulated) intelligence. They thought Saddam still had a WMD program, which during the intense paranoia in the US immediately after 9/11, was used as an excuse to invade. Oh and Saddam had also plotted to kill Bush Sr. with a car bomb in Kuwait in 1993, so that probably factored into Dubya's logic as well.
 
Bebe said:
What would your response be if I ask "Does Israel get to do what Israel does on a daily basis to Palestinians, and not expect an event like October 7th?"

I know that reads a bit smarmy on my part - I truly mean the question in a genuine and literal sense, nothing more.
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Its a slippery slope. After 9/11, there wasn't an inquest as to why the US hurt Al-Qaeda's feelings in the years leading up to the attack. It was a pure inflection point where a brand new time line started that would eventually end Al-Qaeda and kill all of its original leadership (except Saif al-Adel). The same thing is about to happen to Hamas since the 10.7 has instilled a raw & existential "its either us or Hamas" mindset into the population.
 
owlo said:
And when there is absolutely no hope for the region, any hope of peace or two states is destroyed. It's thoroughly depressing.
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It is what it is was never going to be peace not while Israel exists in the holy land. Palestinians have had numerous opportunities to create an independent state and they aren't interested, even as recent as 2008 under Olmert who offered to partition Jerusalem. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/ehud-olmert-s-peace-offer

Hell until 1967 the west bank was under Jordan for 30 years, upon which Arafat insisted there wasn't a claim as it was no longer a part of Palestine. Once it was under Israeli hands however it suddenly became disputed land again because of course it did, one of the many reasons i don't blame Israel for the cynicism in dealing with this problem once and for all.
 
Newtonius said:
It is what it is was never going to be peace not while Israel exists in the holy land. Palestinians have had numerous opportunities to create an independent state and they aren't interested, even as recent as 2008 under Olmert who offered to partition Jerusalem. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/ehud-olmert-s-peace-offer

Hell until 1967 the west bank was under Jordan for 30 years, upon which Arafat insisted there wasn't a claim as it was no longer a part of Palestine. Once it was under Israeli hands however it suddenly became disputed land again because of course it did, one of the many reasons i don't blame Israel for the cynicism in dealing with this problem once and for all.
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Outstanding phrasing.
 
2cents said:
Any idea why Iraq abstained?
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Yeah surprised me too. I've heard murmurings of it being down to the wording not being critical enough of Israel. I know the Tunisians abstained because they claimed it drew false equivalence between Israeli and Palestinian civilians.
 
4bars said:
It was never about 9/11, it was never about WMD. It was just because...then they need it to find an excuse even if it meant lying
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Of course it was a lie, but that was the lie they sold the country on. That made more of an impact than oil or an assassination plot against Pappy Bush.
 
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