Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Some weirdos in this thread so think I’ll step aside and hide this thread.

Can’t believe after a genocide there’s still ‘shit throwing’ done.
 
berbatrick said:
I genuinely haven't understood this story - Hamas said in November 2023 that they were dead - and blamed an airstrike - so why this such a surprise?
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I don't know if it's SUCH a surprise. But Hamas's claims were reported with skeptism as the time, and probably not so widely. Obviously, you wouldn't treat a terrorist group as a credible source.

So there were plenty of people who either did not know of what Hamas said or hoped it's not true.

BTW: One of the bodies returned yesterday (the mother of the children) turned out to be to be someone else's (a Palestenian woman), so her body is still missing somewhere in Gaza.
 
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Amir said:
For the same reason they are keeping dozens of other bodies. To make a deal.
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Can I ask you as somebody living in Israel, has the Israeli claim that the baby and his older brother were murdered and not the victims of an Israeli airstrike been established? I read The Times of Israel articles that aren`t behinda registration/paywalls and it had a news item on that horrendous topic. Maybe it was just reporting that first news coming out.

There will be those on here that rubbish Israeli media as nothing but propaganda. However, The Times of Israel also has news items on abuses committed and allegedly committed by members of the IDF, for example. It does present some news that needs to be known including critical of Israel.
 
Fenômeno said:
You are wrong about the Hamas charter, it was changed in 2017 so not a indisputable fact. The current position is to revert to 1967 borders. Furthermore, the only people being wiped out here are the Palestinians, you can't have one set of standards for one party and another for the other. By most definitions the Israeli state has carried out many terrorist acts themselves.

The conflict exists because Europeans genocided Jews and instead of taking responsibility imposed these people onto a foreign land/people who had no involvement in the genocide. At the same time they artificially exported European antisemitism to the middle East as a result.

You either believe in democracy or not, a true democracy protects minorites and is non violent in escence. It seems there's colonial arrogance here where only the white man can have democracy while excuses are made for other people around the world who are too violent and uncivilised to have it.
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The Zionist Back To Israel movement pre-dates any Nazi activities leading up to and during World War II. The Holocaust and the aftermath of the Nazi defeat gave it impetus and urgency but did not create the Zionist movement which goes back to the 19th century.

I think your assertion `At the same time they artificially exported European antisemitism to the middle East as a result` is another historically inaccurate one. Even though Jewish communities and Arabic/other non Jewish communtiies historically in the ME and Levant could and did live peacefully with each other, there has always been the fact that some from Jewish communities integrated with Europeans whether by going to their countries or working with different European power groups/authorities in those regions. They became seen as part of the power structure of the Europeans.

That is one of the reasons why there are prominent high ranking/business families in every western Europe country plus the UK who have Jewish ancestry even if they are integrated with the societies they came to centuries ago, some to the point of not observing any Jewish religious practices but being Christians. The later Jewish arrivals from Eastern Europe to the west and the USA - for example, the movie moguls who started the motion picture business in Hollywood were often from that background - who became established in those countries and societies are a different case.
 
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According to the National Campaign to Recover the Bodies of Martyrs, the Israelis currently hold the bodies of at least 665 Palestinians in Israeli cemeteries and morgues, some since the 60s & 70s.

59 bodies are of children and 259 bodies have been held since Oct 7.

Back in July, Haaretz reported that there are more than 1500 Palestinian bodies held at the Sde Teiman torture camp, alleged to be primarily of Hamas fighters from Oct 7th. There are also countless bodies that Israel has taken from inside Gaza of Palestinians it had killed or stolen from cemeteries and hospitals.

In September 2024, Israel sent a truck of 88 bodies to Gaza without any identification or explanation for how and where they were killed.

In 2019, the Israeli High Court ruled that Palestinian bodies could be held by Israel as a bargaining chip.

x.com/SanaSaeed/status/1892615960961356088
 
ryansgirl said:
Can I ask you as somebody living in Israel, has the Israeli claim that the baby and his older brother were murdered and not the victims of an Israeli airstrike been established? I read The Times of Israel articles that aren`t behinda registration/paywalls and it had a news item on that horrendous topic. Maybe it was just reporting that first news coming out.

There will be those on here that rubbish Israeli media as nothing but propaganda. However, The Times of Israel also has news items on abuses committed and allegedly committed by members of the IDF, for example. It does present some news that needs to be known including critical of Israel.
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Israeli media are basing their reports on how the two children died on the report of the IDF spokesman and, apparently, the results of the autopsy reports that were handed to some journalists. So supposedly it's established. Or at least as established as we're going to get.

Do I 100% believe them? Quite frankly, no.

Israel and the IDF have already proven themselves not to be absolutely trustworthy during the war, as they tried to absolve themselves of responsibility for the deaths of hostages who were killed accidently by the IDF and also in at least one case of a soldier killed in Lebanon while proving security for an Israeli civilian (!) who was somehow allowed to join the forces for a personal archeology venture.

So as far as I am concerned, I don't know how the children (and also their mother, whose body was now finally returned) have died. Might have been murdered. Might have been in an airstrike - I wouldn't rule it out.
 
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