Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

As I said a week or so ago. It's time to just give the Palestinians somewhere, like Crete or the Isle of Wight so they can live in peace and Israel can have Gaza/West Bank.

This is never ending until one side is gone unfortunately.
 
Giggsyking said:
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I think the secretary general just said what many people are thinking. That Israel calls bombing and killing thousands of Palestinian children "defending themselves" is something I don't believe many, many people accept. I feel like Israel is losing a lot of sympathy generally at the moment or certainly will do if they carry on like this. Of course the October 7 attacks were atrocious but how is killing so many innocents something Israel can justify given what happened to them on October 7 and during the Holocaust. They continually say they are bombing Hamas targets, but how good is their intelligence? And why is so much collateral damage in the form of dead civilians, many of whom are children, so acceptable to so many Israelis?
 

There is a reason why the media is biased. Those who dare to speak and push back will be cancelled in no time. That is why I have zero respect for the media, specially the western media because they go under the promise of free speech while in reality you have to talk in an agenda driven manner to keep your job.



He should have taken their advice.
 
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Traub said:
Hamas has fuel to still fire rockets but not to give to the hospitals. Strange one that
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Do you think rockets run on diesel? Or that generators can run on the bricks of sugar/oxidizer mix Hamas use to power their rockets?
 
owlo said:
Information on the ground is unlikely to be accurate from either side, and we won’t have evidence for a while yet of what is going on. Both sides are driving sensationalist narratives and employing cranks to do their bidding. Neither hamas/Gaza ministries or Israel Are reliable sources.

Sources I generally listen to (and a common theme here is they will discuss actions but not always verify or justify them. Eg they can discuss the laws of conflict, but not yet know if Israel breaks them): justsecurity, lawfare, bellingcat, Lieber institute, rational security podcast - very US centric but reliable and expert

We can get fairly accurate reports on troop movements especially on the US side. Jim Laporta and Lara Seligman on twitter

Analysis on the conflict, there’s a fair few but if you branch out from the ones I’ve mentioned you won’t go far wrong.

For ”breaking news” you can probably expect organisations like the bbc and cnn and nytimes to be ok now, they won’t get sucker punched by hamas again.
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Hamas Health Ministry statistics on the number of those killed in Gaza have historically been proven to be accurate. There’s no evidence to suggest that they, or Israel, inflate the total death toll to fuel a sensationalist narrative.

The spokespeople for the armed factions will fuel narratives, as will the IDF, but both health ministries have demonstrated accurate reporting of headline figure-deaths historically, and there’s a reason that most western media take them at their word for it.
 
nickm said:
You mean Hamas. That number likely comes from the Gaza Ministry of Health, which is run by Hamas.

It may be right, it may be wrong, but the source is relevant.
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Well, Hamas is the current authority in Gaza and what they say is obviously relevant in the current situation, not to be taken at face value of course but it definitely deserves some honest analysis. Anyway my source was the World Socialist Website (https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2023/10/24/aelb-o24.html), and their track record and analysis is beyond reproach, especially compared to the empire's stenographers known as mainstream media.
 
jadaba said:
Hamas Health Ministry statistics on the number of those killed in Gaza have historically been proven to be accurate. There’s no evidence to suggest that they, or Israel, inflate the total death toll to fuel a sensationalist narrative.

The spokespeople for the armed factions will fuel narratives, as will the IDF, but both health ministries have demonstrated accurate reporting of headline figure-deaths historically, and there’s a reason that most western media take them at their word for it.
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I can’t remember hearing major issues regarding their figures in the past, but they have been credibly accused of regularly classifying combatants as civilians and victims of their own errant rocket fire as victims of Israeli strikes.
 
Murder on Zidane's Floor said:
As I said a week or so ago. It's time to just give the Palestinians somewhere, like Crete or the Isle of Wight so they can live in peace and Israel can have Gaza/West Bank.

This is never ending until one side is gone unfortunately.
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Or Israel leaves and sets up in France, UK or USA...our Governments fecking loooove Israel so I'm sure they'd be cool with it.
 
Tibs said:
Or Israel leaves and sets up in France, UK or USA...our Governments fecking loooove Israel so I'm sure they'd be cool with it.
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My mother in law solved the crisis by suggesting the Israelis simply set up shop in some of the masses of empty space in the US.
 
RE: Current Political Situation. Maybe im giving Iran too much credit but isnt this what they wanted? The middle east destabilsed. Arab nations being told your lives dont matter as much as israel lives to the west. America doesnt really support you, just uses you. When push comes to shove, it will always choose israel concerns over your concerns?

If your pissed off middle east countries, won't you now look at China and Russia more favourably to do deals with? Or join BRICS?

Maybe its more nuanced than that?
 
Simbo said:
This guy jumps from theory to theory each time his previous one gets rubbished. Complete clown, nyt at its worse.
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I don't know who that guy is... but he's only repeating what all the big OSINT accounts I have seen are now agreeing with. They are all walking back their original claims. They are now saying the video footage of what was claimed was a malfunctioning rocket is almost certainly unrelated to the hospital strike based on new evidence and appears to be an Iron Dome interception.

It just shows not to be too quick to judge on limited evidence which many are guilty of atm.
 
Simbo said:
This guy jumps from theory to theory each time his previous one gets rubbished. Complete clown, nyt at its worse.
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Shocked that you, a guy ridiculing the idea that the blast could ever be Israel's fault, would think that.
 



Israel are used to acting spoiled child but this time they are really taking it to new levels.


Somehow I understand their reasoning. This is probably the last generation of US (+ EU) rulers that is going to tolerate/support ethnic cleansing. They need to do it now and get away with it. Not only Gaza. The same has to be done in Jerusalem East as well…
 
2cents said:
I can’t remember hearing major issues regarding their figures in the past, but they have been credibly accused of regularly classifying combatants as civilians and victims of their own errant rocket fire as victims of Israeli strikes.
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That's true.
 
Tibs said:
Or Israel leaves and sets up in France, UK or USA...our Governments fecking loooove Israel so I'm sure they'd be cool with it.
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Don't think they love them as much as the Indian right wing does. So I propose carving out some space in India.
 
dinostar77 said:
Arab nations being told your lives dont matter as much as israel lives to the west. America doesnt really support you, just uses you. When push comes to shove, it will always choose israel concerns over your concerns?
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As a discussion point, is this not the exact truth that we see playing out before us?
 
Tibs said:
Or Israel leaves and sets up in France, UK or USA...our Governments fecking loooove Israel so I'm sure they'd be cool with it.
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Exactly, if anything the Zionists should take their ethno-supremacist state and ideas to their fellow fascists in the West, and leave Palestine for the equal and rightful habitation of Muslims, Christians and Jews like it was before.
 
Pintu said:



Israel are used to acting spoiled child but this time they are really taking it to new levels.


Somehow I understand their reasoning. This is probably the last generation of US (+ EU) rulers that is going to tolerate/support ethnic cleansing. They need to do it now and get away with it. Not only Gaza. The same has to be done in Jerusalem East as well…
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UN is completely useless in fairness.
 
Pintu said:
This is probably the last generation of US (+ EU) rulers that is going to tolerate/support ethnic cleansing. They need to do it now and get away with it. Not only Gaza. The same has to be done in Jerusalem East as well…
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Not sure why you feel so. Why will US and EU suddenly change their tunes? US will continue to fund and supply arms to Israel to help with the ethnic cleansing. And so will other countries. They may do some lip service and condemn the loss of lives and call for peace, but their actions will not match the words.
 
dinostar77 said:
RE: Current Political Situation. Maybe im giving Iran too much credit but isnt this what they wanted? The middle east destabilsed. Arab nations being told your lives dont matter as much as israel lives to the west. America doesnt really support you, just uses you. When push comes to shove, it will always choose israel concerns over your concerns?

If your pissed off middle east countries, won't you now look at China and Russia more favourably to do deals with? Or join BRICS?

Maybe its more nuanced than that?
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This was all well known before this, had nothing to do with Iran. The Majority of the Arab countries political sphere still dislike Iran and it will always be so.

The only difference to now and 10 years back is there is a viable alternative to the US with the emergence of China (and less so Russia).
 
Israel are a US backed rogue state. We have normalised mass casualties of Palestinians.
just hold on a minute. Imagine another state bombing civilian population and killing 6,000 civilians in a week?
I just find the whole thing incredible. We often say “never again”, but it’s bullshit. It just depends on who it committing it. Saudi Arabia bombed Yemen into the Stone Age and no one batted an eye.
The hypocrisy makes me mad. As far as the world is concerned, Pelestinan lives cheap.
 
The Corinthian said:


Israel threatening the Israeli hospital that received the freed captive as she spoke in positive terms is hilarious.
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They're shooting themselves in the foot because now there will be more doubt on testimonies that come from future freed hostages that will say they were mistreated, even if true.
 
Adisa said:
I mean, she’s 85. Probably doesn’t give a shit what anyone says.
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She doesn't care, and good for her.

Some idiots in Israel are angry because she dared mentioned she was given decent treatment by some of her captures. Doesn't serve the narrative that everyone in Gaza is pure evil. In fact, some terrible insults were written about her in social media. It's disgusting.
 
The Israeli government being absolutely outraged by factual statements, coupled with other goverments being shit scared of upsetting them, will never not be ridiculous.
 
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