It's not Egyptians mate, it's just Sisi and the military.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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I feel sorry for the Israeli people for having this type of man in charge. The 4 years of Trump felt for me as an eternity, and so I can’t imagine 15 years (or more, given his time as PM in the 1990’s). But, then, many want him in power, time and again!
By the way, I just saw the pictures of the two released US citizens. They look overall good, but I can’t imagine how tough these two weeks must have been. I pray for more hostages to be released and for no suffering in Gaza.
I haven't kept up with domestic politics in Israel but didn't they throw out Bibi multiple times over the last few years but he keeps getting the gig because no other coalition is working to make a majority in Parliament ? Despite his horrible policies plus multitude of corruption cases ongoing.
@Amir can correct me, but here’s my reading: Bibi’s floor of support is very high, and so he’s always in the game. He can lose once, but he has enough support to come back and win again.
Also, he was out of power only 1.5 years since 2009, and so he mostly found a way to form a government since then.
People are right to scold people who basically just confirmed what they want to believe, on both sides of the biased opinions.
I think we're going to struggle to understand what happened for a while, as both sides need their side to be true.
I'm concerned with this source using "IOF", doesn't particularly paint a very good picture of balance.
Of the two accounts linked in that tweet, one doesn't seem to have posted anything except this report and the other has this in their bio:
"Protecting and Promoting Human Rights & the Rule of Law in the Occupied Palestinian Territory #BizHumanRights #EndIsraeliApartheid #EndImpunity #StandWithThe6"
If you want to put forward a credible rejoinder to the consensus that Israel did not bomb the hospital then I would think it will need to come from a source a lot less blatantly biased than that.
Wasn't that disproven days ago?
I can't speak to Channel Four's use of sources.
All I can point out is that aside from the obvious bias in the linked account mentioned above and the use of the term "IOF" @Lash noted, the Forensic Architecture thread also pointedly ends by affirming their solidarity with Palestinian people under attack.
Basic media literacy would suggest that whatever expertise they do or do not possess, they are a biased source.
Channel 4 News is very liberal/left wing and essentially what the Guardian would be if they were a news broadcaster. Not sure if you're UK based so apologies if this is not new to you.
Irrelevant. If people want to direct anger somewhere to hope to make a difference where it is possible in the current context, any foreign-based institution that represents the Egyptian government ought to feel the brunt.
Came to post this.
The clear fabrication of the audio by the Israelis is hilarious. If they were so certain they didn’t do it, why edit and splice together fake audio? It doesn’t make any sense.
This isn’t accurate.
Here is one of them (Mehdi/ the only one I really know about) discussing Biden‘s speech last night… He was also on air when the American-Palestinian kid got stabbed… And I believe they‘ve had the other 2 on air as well.
The Likud guy who went on RT and epically owned Putin also has a solution to the Gaza problem. This is the original, tweeted out by an Israeli think-tank, here is the translation:
The twitter page of the think-tank also has some interesting data about the poulation of Gaza...It's such a mystery what posting this polling data implies
The twitter page of the think-tank also has some interesting data about the poulation of Gaza...It's such a mystery what posting this polling data implies
Agree re the Gulf states staying silent, although I believe now the Saudis have spoken out about it in fairly pro-Palestinian terms (this is off the top of my head, I’ll need to double check).
In any case, the worst thing for the US will be if Saudi and Iran find some sort of conciliation, particularly if that comes through China. And this will undoubtedly have an impact on their normalisation deal with Israel. The most intriguing thing is how nervous we’ll see the US come in the coming months.
As someone who watches MSNBC, the claim sounds true to me. I noticed the change over the past couple of weeks.
Ali Velshi was also in Tel Aviv in the early days then mysteriously vanished.
Did you even watch the video? Skip over to 1:45 - there's a big difference between being a guest on the network vs hosting your own show where you get to pick the guests, the line of questioning, the way the stories are framed etc.
I might be being a bit thick here but,
If a rocket malfunctions then its direction on impact or of approach to impact my vary wildly from its direction of launch. It is not an artillery shell. Rockets can spiral when power or drag imbalances occur.
The Egyptian administration is going to feel it soon enough.
Why use loaded language Ffs! He could have easily said his point without using the word final.I think the "final resettlement" will be a one-way trip
All three are still on the air, Velshi is live out there, Ayman & Medhi still are on the weekends & are guests across the MSNBC day or night lineups.
He was down in southern Israel a few days ago, was on with Alex Wagner last night or the night before.
There hasn't been a purge.
Because all black people are drug dealers and the Irish terrorists. So yes, it was an idiotically stupid thing to ask.
Not a purge, but you can tell that they’re being put aside. Velshi would probably have stayed longer in the Middle East if they allowed him. I fully believe that there is something intentional, and I say that as a loyal MSNBC viewer.
This is a psychopathic take .It's just vile. "Those silly palestinians crying about their day of reckoning"
Absolutely (well I can't speak for the other German posters as I've not seen their comments) but this guy adding on "As a German I know what I'm talking about." is such an oblivious thing to say. He hasn't learnt anything from the events he's referencing.
Former congressman lost family members in Gaza.
edit: Sorry. When I started I had no idea it would get this long.
I've no idea about the veracity of the forensic architecture investigation, looks professional enough to a no mark like me, but I feel like I must comment on the Al-jazeera one. At first when I saw the Al-jazeera video I thought "oh, that sounds plausible, maybe I shouldn't have been so confident" but something seemed a bit off. Then, after a bit of digging, I concluded that the Al-jazeera investigation is much more likely to be propaganda with little in the way of explanatory power. It's possible that this is motivated reasoning on the part of myself because I've already been convinced otherwise and spent a fair amount of time articulating why, but I don't think so. I don't think I'm that proud. Equally I don't enjoy feeling like a gaslit pawn in some sort of propaganda game so I've got a right bee in my bonnet about this one. I think people have to seriously consider the possibility that Al-Jazeera is lying to them, or is itself guilty of motivated reasoning. For what it's worth (not so much) here's what I'd consider major objections to Al-Jazeera's conclusions.
1. Not enough time (confidence level medium). The investigation postulates that the iron-dome shot down a missile in its launch phase when the iron-dome is, in fact, a terminal (descent) phase system. That is why videos of Iron dome activity seem to always show interceptions ocurring between Gaza and Israeli cities rather than above Gaza itself. Footage of interceptions taken from Gaza also seem to show them being intercepted over Israeli territory. Here is a good article about how the iron dome works. Here is another one. Basically, due to how the iron dome functions, its capabilities and its overall role it is distinctly improbable that there would have been enough time for the iron dome to triangulate, aim, fire and intercept the missile before it crossed into Israeli airspace.
2. Absence of visual confirmation (confidence level high). You can see the iron dome interceptor missiles quite clearly on all night time videos of them in action, right up to the moment of explosion unless it is above the clouds. There is no visual evidence of an interceptor missile at all on the hospital video.
3. Where are the Gazan rockets (confidence level medium-high)? In all the above videos you can see the interceptor missiles, but you can't see what they're intercepting. This is because interception occurs later in the missile life cycle, after its propellant has been used. As you can see in the original Al-jazeera footage, the missile fuel there is still very much ignited at the point of termination. See the video attached to point 3.
4. No comment on change of direction (confidence level high). The Al-jazeera investigation skips over the fact that the Gazan rocket abruptly changes direction mid flight. This change in direction does not have an accompanying explosion (which it would if it were the point of an iron dome interception). What caused this deviation in the rockets path? Why did the investigation decide to omit an explantion? I would contend that this deviation is most plausibly explained via an internal malfunction of the rocket. Here is a video of the whole incident to show you what I mean:
5. No explanation for propellant discharge (confidence level high). The Al-jazeera footage fails to account for the discharge of what is clearly propellant after the deviation in direction and before the moment of interception/explosion. Iron dome rockets work via explosion so could not have been the cause. What caused the fuel leak prior to the explosion? Again I would contend that this discharge is most plausibly explained via an internal malfunction of the rocket. Again refer to the above video to see what I mean.
6. The conclusion that the missile suffered "total destruction" (confidence level low). Now, I don't know exactly what you can safely read into analysis of a camera designed to see in the visible spectrum, but as someone who's fairly familiar with editing and post production techniques in a professional capacity I'm fairly confident in telling you that I could swiftly derive an image that looks similar to the one they produced while having absolutely no confidence that it would portray anything useful As far as I can see the video plays at being able to see into the ultra violet, despite this not being a capability of the original camera. What they've done is played with inversions and curves and farted around with a purple filter to highlight some amorphous blobs. It looks good, but it's turning bright lights purple and outlining them in orange. I think you can see what you want to see in something like this. Here's someone else with a completely different perspective seeing something else. What is it that appears to be falling down at 11 seconds? I have no clue
6. The general tenor of the piece (confidence level low-medium). Now this might just be personal taste, and stuff like dispatches does the same sort of nonsense but I'm unconvinced by the dramatic voice and spooky background music invoking drama in what is supposed to be a factual video. It is a rhetorical trick usually used when someone is attempting to convince rather than explain.
7. Sundry observations (confidence level low). At the point at which the investigation says that Israel's iron dome is intercepting rockets on the cam from "south of Tel Aviv" you can notice that these interceptions already seem to be appearing simultaneously with the launch of Gazan rockets. This seems odd. You also note that the Gazan rockets themselves are only visible for a few moments. Compare that to the rocket over the hospital. That rocket is visible for a lot longer, and is more meandering and slower in its movement. This suggests to me something is wrong in and of itself. Going back to the explosions you can also see that the initial lights in the sky are a lot smaller and indeed last a lot longer than the explosion above the hospital. Although quite a bit different in size and longevity the voice over asserts that the hospital explosion "has the same afterglow seen in previous interceptions." Again this feels rhetorical rather than explanatory.
All told my feeling is that the piece was not a good faith attempt at a best guess, but more likely a piece of propaganda aimed at being plausible to a general audience already predisposed to believing (or wanting to believe) in a specific culprit.
I still think it's just too much of an astonishing coincidence to have a clearly malfunctioning rocket explode right above the hospital with just enough of a time gap to fall to the floor before the ground explosion occurs.
Occam's razor just has to come into play here. On the one hand we have an exquisitely timed malfunctioning rocket. On the other we have a malfunctioning rocket intercepted in record time by an invisible iron dome missile while an independently launched artillery shell lands at precisely the same moment in the hospital below causing precisely the same damage as would be expected from a malfunctioning rocket igniting its unspent fuel.
The second explanation is just too much of an inexplicable confluence of unlikely events.
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Just terrible news. May they, and all victims of both sides, rest in peace!
As am I, but they've been exposed to a higher degree as interviewees during the week vs. just having their weekend slots. MSNBC benefits more by those three being in front of a camera capacity.
second surprising poll. i would trust these numbers less than the previous one since it's DFP and they've tinkered around before*, but, with such a large margin, even a slightly fudged poll means something.
* ironically to get the most pro-Israel Dem into Congress against a socialist primary opponent