I'd love to see the Israeli figures. I'd hope a majority also support ending this ridiculous offensive in its current form.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
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I'd love to see the Israeli figures. I'd hope a majority also support ending this ridiculous offensive in its current form.
Ah you're back. Didn't answer questions but that's OK.
On this article one of the things I'd find fault with is the idea that Israel tries not to kill civilians considering how many they have killed over the years.
How strange. I thought the count had risen from the two hundreds up to 500 at one point.
I saw a bizzarely accurate 471 on Sky or the like at one point.
Do you think the poster doesn't know this?
I'd say committing mass murder, mutilation and using the general populace of the people they are supposed to be looking after as cannon fodder is a tad more than a flaw, wouldn't you?
That and having the death of every last Jew in their public charter is somewhat of a PR disaster.
I'm not sure. They didn't know why Hamas weren't held accountable under international law yesterday.
The article a bit misleading to anyone who didn't know I think.
Bassam Eid, thought it would be a matter of time before his thoughts would be used to critique the Palestinians.
Hes a high profile commentator for Palestinian affairs on Israeli TV, and his recent works are lauded by right wing islamaphobes like the Henry Jackson Society.
Yep. And the spectacle of destruction was used to generate moral outrage in the streets of several countries based apparently on the wrong information.
100%
The weird thing is you dont see or acknowledge any of the exact same flaws in the State of Israel.
You do know that over 90% of the victims in this conflict were killed by Israel. That's the greater mass for you.
It's hypocrisy to see it only in one direction.
Come on. You’re a bright guy. This is terrible logic. How is it even possible for a nation to be simultaneously aligned with the individual opinions of every person of the Jewish faith? What they will do, however, is make every effort to been seen as a friend of Israel (Jewish homeland) and clamping down hard on any antisemitism in Germany.
These are obvious aims for Germany to have in the context of trying to make right historical atrocities committed by their ancestors. Which, as I said, you seem to be much more supportive of in the context of other countries needing to make reparations for different, less recent, historical wrongs.
You could apply that to the Israeli state just as well considering the Palestinians live under their occupation. Many senior Israeli politicians have made quite clear they want the palestenians expelled from their lands. Hasn't been much of a PR disaster for them.
I get the initial wrong call can happen and spread but it's still so oddly nebulous. Really weird.
This backs up the photographic evidence of the morning after, and from an independent source. No chance this is a targeted Israeli airstrike.
And maybe the media and frothing twitter mobs can pause a second when digesting info from Hamas from now on. Just because the Israeli government are liars doesn't mean the other side aren't. And this one is a very big lie.
I think we've long known there is very little truth surrounding war. From any party.
I do fully accept that Israel has made tremendous mistakes and will no doubt continue to make them moving forward which government in the world hasn't? For me, if Netanyahu fecked off and Hamas fecked off, that would be a dream outcome but sadly neither will happen and we will continue the cycle of death and suffering long after we are gone from this Earth.
The standards to which Israel is held accountable, seem to dwarf any other country. Why do you think that is? The situation in Syria, Yemen and other places never seems to get as much coverage. This isn't a genocide contest though, the world as we can both agree is a shit show. I just want to know why this gets so much focus.
It achieved its aim. A modern-day blood libel always goes down well with the world.
This moral outrage was also adopted by senior western politicians and influential media people.
Sadly despite mounting evidence coming out that this wasn't Israel, not many have gone back on their original inflammatory responses (some notably have, eg AOC and Mehdi Hasan). And they are in the guise of an addendum for the record, not a full rowing back.
I can't imagine the lads who are burning synagogues, attacking embassies etc will be pouring over the latest evidence and having a rethink.
No. The damage is done. Fantastic work all round..
Only from few guys posting on the internet. Much of the world or the world media doesn't ask Israel for any accountability. Most nations fund and enable Israel to do whatever it wants.
I can't tell you why I think it is because I think your assertion is wrong and I don't think that's the case. Hamas and the Syrians are acknowledged as enemies. Israel aren't. And not only that they are funded to the tune of 4 Billion dollars by the US and never criticised for all their killing by most western government.
Israel are the only country allowed and to rewarded for constantly breaking international law and you think they are harshly treated?
So it is only Israel currently breaking international law and being "rewarded" for it..... ? Pretty bizarre comment but you're entitled to your views.
I disagree with this part. I think it gets about the same amount of coverage that a number (but not all) of conflicts get when they're in an escalatory phase. When Assad was most intensely repressing his adversaries in Syria and enlisted help from Russia to do extensive airstrikes, I think that was generally covered and given front page attention. Similar with other conflicts such as the invasion of Ukraine.
I do think there's some weariness that sets in when a conflict remains similarly deadly/destructive over a period of time but without any notable increases, that causes it to get phased out of front page coverage. But that has also applied to this conflict over the years.
Is there any reason you're ignoring half of my post about how the 2nd strongest party in Germany hates the notion of collective guilt while loving Israel, and how this suggests a big contradiction between repentance and foreign policy...?
On what you've replied to, again, addressing the last point first
Do you think the English should have supported the Fenian Raids against Canada? If the Fenians won and carried out a Native policy similar to other settler colonies, do you think English support for that ethnic cleansing would have been reparations for the Irish famine?
For your first point, do you not see the danger in equating an entire (multi-national) group of people with the actions of an apartheid nation-state? Of course they can't respect every individual Jewish opinion. However, they could have the fecking humility, being the country that did the fecking Holocaust, to listen to diverse Jewish points of view, rather than imposing their own definitions on them. It's audacious. Again, to clarify, I expect them to arrest and beat up Arabs and others saying the same thing, that's simply how the world is.
What is it with this old lady? Do you expect there to be one law for Jews and one for everyone else? The pro Palestine demonstration had been rejected, so they cleared everyone, who showed up to protest anyway. Regardless of religion, gender, age or ethnicity. Like do you expect the police to come up to her, verify that she is indeed Jewish and then make an exception for her? It's such a baffling point to make. People at the demonstrations break the law, in particular with regards to antisemitism and so the police and courts refuse to sign off on further demonstrations.
And what is it with trying to turn this into some point about Germany as a whole. Are you even aware that there have been plenty of demonstrations permitted outside of Berlin? I assume, because people there don't find it so hard to follow the law.
And what about Saskia Esken embarrassing herself in a tweet? Should I start to draw conclusions about the UK's state of mind based on Corbyn?
And how does the AfD represent Germany's national maxim, when they've only been around for 10 years and never held a government post? They are pretty aligned with US republicans, so the answer is probably that they are regurgitating what they see in their bubble. They also seem to hate Arabs more than anything in the world - Covid aside, most of their topics seem to center around refugees from the Middle East and Africa.
You don't need to try and read tea leaves by the way or try to draw conclusions from staged twitter videos and thorough cursory google searches. There's plenty of official statements on the government's position. For example this one:
https://www.bundesregierung.de/breg-en/news/federal-chancellor-israel-visit-2230900
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Ok. What about the US Department of Defense? Oh wait, sorry they're in with the Israelis and Iraq and yeah. What about the fact the photographed crater is about 2 feet deep, walls 10 feet away are still standing and there's even anti-Israel ballistics experts stating with decent confidence that it almost definitely wasn't a bomb, but something much smaller, landing from much lower?
4 of her bullets have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on the situation. In a world where Israel definitively had not bombed the hospital, all of those facts would still be true.
The video itself is literally, deliberately and specifically refuting the use of the Al Jazeerah video feed and the single claim from the IDF. That's it. She's just randomly using the words 'ALL EVIDENCE' despite that literally not being what she's retweeting.
It's an utterly terrible framing of an argument and falls apart almost immediately under any scrutiny. I don't blame her. I've no idea who she is, or why I should care what she says. But why are you posting it, given all of that?
It would be interesting to see if some experts have an opinion on this but it could make sense. The Iron Dome is or can be automatic which would explain why IDF needed time to know if it was their missile or something else. The question is what is the size range of rockets debris intercepted by the Iron Dome?
All of the stated in the tweet can be true, and it still doesn't prove that Israel bombed this particular hospital at that particular hour.
I feel weird arguing that a specific war crime isn't so, in the context of other war crimes being committed before and since. But the absolute bending of both evidence and especially logic in this instance just sort of irks me, and I guess the event had significant relevance 2 days ago.
It seems the argument has moved from trying to prove that Israel bombed the hospital, to proving that Israel's official story doesn't fully track and they've been known to lie before, as if that would be the same as proving that they bombed the hospital. Except it doesn't prove that... because logic.
Almost seems like regurgitating everything that comes out of Hamas related sources and bombing the thread with random tweets of unverified Twitter users - unfiltered - may not be a good idea after all.
Then I retract the only potential saving grace then.
If you mean this, I don't think they ever definitively say there are no grounds to claim it wasn't a failed rocket launch. They say military experts are still investigating the footage.
Edit: just saw the other video!
I never denied that there were a thousand people taking shelter.
What I have been questioning why I don't see hundreds of dead and injured people in picture after the explosion. All I see are burnt out cars.
Where are all the dead and injured bodies, if these people were still at the parking lot at the time of the explosion?
Both sides playing the propaganda game. I give you that. Still I believe Israel more than an Islamic terrorist organisation like Hamas.
Both sides killed civilian. Again I see an huge difference between what Hamas did in October 7 and collateral victims caused by Israel's response.
It is a good idea if one supports the Hamas narrative and hopes (as Hamas do) that they can leverage mass carnage to their advantage by animating the Arab street, as well as those in the west who like to protest the latest controversy.
Well put. I think there's a bit information war on this particular incident as it sets up the narrative for the incoming ground invasion, which will inevitably have civilian casualties.
It's not a bizarre view. It's a bizzarely situation.
Are you denying they break international law? Or that they receive billions?
So who else is there?
That difference being "I care" and "I don't care"
I think we need to make a distinction. Israel is treated with kid gloves by allied governments and gets away with all kinds of shit as a result.
However in the court of global public opinion, Israel is demonised beyond any other country. Pigs, scum, Nazis, filth etc, you see it everywhere. What other country has this? That's where the comparisons to objectively worse offenders like Syria, Saudi, China etc are valid.
I know Bassam Eid personally. Whatever his views, he’s a fraud and a con artist when it comes to his supposed “human rights activism”, and he shouldn’t be cited on here.
As for the popular “Gaza could be Singapore” thing, this article from 1991 argues that Gaza’s size would need to be tripled to have a hope of making it viable: Gaza Viability - The need for enlargement of its land base
Don’t want to blow smoke up your arse but you’re an incredible resource for this thread. I learn something new from almost every one of your posts. Keep it up!
So they're suggesting it could be a separate strike? The interception and landing of debris seems like you'd expect with the first explosion. The second seems like a strike which happens to land coincidently not long after that interception and debris fall.