Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Of course - they're not comparable in certain aspects but they are in others. Both were unverified, and have been used as a basis for military intervention rhetoric. This thread is a great example of the social aspects of misinformation - I'd encourage you to read through the pages of when the notion of beheaded babies was first announced. People are using it to justify a total annihilation of Gaza.

But in any case - I think you and I are largely agreed on the wider point.

Who?

Well if this is indeed true and with oficial confirmation, I'm afraid it's going to be hell on earth for Gaza. Even worse than what already is. No chance of any compromise whatsoever, now or in the future.
Jeez, wonder how Israeli society is responding to this.
Amongst all that and all the handwringing and the kids trying to justify any of it, I'd love to know what Hamas think this will get them. It's almost certain Gaza will be flattened and Hamas in Gaza will cease to exist. Or is it just the leadership safe in Qatar are happy to sacrifice a few hundred thousand people to get in Iran's good books.
As far as I know, not even ISIS beheaded babies. I've never imagined we can see terror worse than from ISIS. It's even fecking up my mind, although I've seen most gruesome Ukrainian war footage. I need a pause from this and I sincerely hope the IDF lied in this case.
The actions of Hamas, a terrorist organisation is barbaric and is condemnable. However, two wrongs cannot make a right and the current bombing of Gaza will put innocent lives at risk. The only way forward is to de-escalate the conflict and begin genuine discussions about the solution for palestine. I know it is a bitter pill to swallow but someone must break the circle of violence.
Stunningly evil.
I have no words.
I suspect we're being gaslit with the decapitated babies story.
The ISIS comparisons were legit it seems.
An atrocity. Abhorrent.

God rest their souls.
There's reports of decapitated babies, and it's the pro-Israel lobby that's having a mare? OK.
 
Speaking of the other side, here is the head of Hamas calling for a global jihad against Jews. Not just Israeli. That's going to cost innocent lives around the world.

From his office in Qatar. Qatar better get their act together and get some sportswashing projects sorted around the world to cover up the fact they're directly sponsoring murdering terrorists and fomenting war and destruction.

Edit: deleted a tweet because it was from a confirmed racist.

Oh, and re lobbying, for those that speak darkly about the Israeli lobby and zionist influence in the USA, are you also going to speak of this secret Arab conspiracy too?

Why are you calling it an "Arab conspiracy", when it's only one member of the GCC that is publicly pro-Hamas/-Iran?
 
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Does it really work? Its certainly been effective in terms of deterring neighbouring nation states because they have something to lose and Israel have shown again and again they will strike hard and fast (and threaten nukes very early on).

Does it work as much for non state actors, with populations who feel (rightly or wrongly) they've got nothing to lose?

It does. Look at world/regional support for Palestinian civilians now compared to historically. They’re being marginalised as barely human, like Syrians or Iranians or whatever. Nobody really cares beyond platitudes. (By nobody I mean no governments;ordinary people obviously do)
 
To me, it looks like either Egypt accepts the eternal displacement of the entire Gaza population, or we are going to witness this population slaughtered while Israel do some Putin-like operation à la Grozny...

Israel will do the massacres, but Egypt will also bear a huge historical responsibility for this.
 
How fecking irresponsible - he's the POTUS and he's spreading as fact unverified claims. That's shocking.

I mean, I know he's senile af with one foot in the grave and falling up/down stairs, but still. You can't be spreading something like that unless you 100% sure.

yep. Imagine our choices next are 4 more years of him or the orange megalomaniac.

That’s quite an interesting angle. We’ve had loads of debate on Hamas motives and, “well, what did they expect would happen”.

I’ve been saying basically this for days. It’s not an uncommon thought amongst some circles. Idea is that 1) they don’t give a feck about Palestinian innocents 2) urban combat in Gaza is a wet dream for them 3) Israel’s brutality will justify them and increase recruitment and support

That said, they expected Israel to fight like Israel in the air strikes and artillery phrase pre invasion. Israel are currently acting closer to Russia and being especially brutal. Heard some calls for Adam even; unthinkable in a space like Gaza.
 


Quite disappointing that this is happening in Germany in 2023..
 
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Everyone is expecting Hizbollah, and shiite militias in Syria to attack though, that's hardly going to be a surprise to anyone
Feel like it depends on if it's Hezbollah proper or just a regional group(s) (read this article saying the issue for the US is you will likely get some eager regional Hezbollah commanders who attack without permission from the senior leadership, then you have to calculate if that warrants intervention). Most seem unsure re Hezbollah as a whole joining as then US will likely enter the war, at least in some capacity. Already talk of a 2nd aircraft carrier heading there.
 


You see things like this, the Louie Thereoux doc, and it's hard not to despise the people involved.

I feel the same when I hear Muslim Clerics talk about Sharia Law, or Muslim leaders espouse utter nonsense to justify stoning people, or the Catholic Church saying utter disgusting things, I realised it's not antisemitism because I hate all fanatics, regardless of religion. It all makes my stomach turn.

Fanatical people are a bane on modern civilization. I truly despair.
 
I'm not sure why you quoted me in that?
Corinthian said that people were using the decapitated babies story as justification for flattening Gaza. Laurencio was quoting reactions to that story, where nobody said that Gaza should be flattened.

I think Corinthian was referring to OUR reaction to the story on the Caf as an example of how this story (as misinformation) spread and got a visceral reaction. However, I think he was referring to others when he was talking about people calling for Gaza to be flattened. He said people, not posters.

He can clarify, though.
 
Yup. As I said before the whole beheaded babies thing is really just a distraction but it seems incredibly stupid of him to reference this at all, unless he’s working off cast iron intelligence. So stupid.
Even with cast-iron intel, you have to go through so much to verify something like this. Inquisitions, autopsies, family histories. No one is saying it didn't happen, most, if not all merely hope that, but proving it did happen this early is so far beyond the limits of what is possible (within margins of error which remove all potential for propaganda) that it is insane to speak/print it. Consider, the story gets told. It is amplified. Now, what incentive does Israel, even if it isn't true, have to walk that story back? If false, it will become evident within time (the same as if it's true). But if ambiguous or possible then Nethanhyu can say to other leaders, "we have direct reports/evidence of such a thing" based on much the same levels of confidence as the reporters' who cannot, themselves, verify it. So given Israel doesn't want anything but the world's support, same with Palestinians, if it were discovered to be false, now, there is no state-incentive to immediately dispell it. Whereas within the coming days and weeks, the reality of what did (or hopefully, didn't) happen will become evident beyond all possible "mere propagandistic usage".

If not true, and I hope it isn't, Mossad/Israeli intel, can merely claim "fog of war" (and so can the US president and press associations). But that's precisely why you wouldn't repeat or print the claim. Biden doesn't have much incentive to dispell it either even if he suspects general propaganda because he has to justify American support of Israel to a divided US audience.
 
Have been unable to get through to a close friend of mine, an intensive care doctor working for MSF in Gaza since the bombing began. Another friend is Palestinian origin and returned to the West Bank to try to improve the lives of Palestinians there. Also been unable to get through to him. Hope they're both OK.

@ScholesyTheWise @Amir Hope you guys both remain safe and are doing as well as you can be considering the circumstances.

Cheers. I'm doing OK. Luckily I don't live too close to the Gaza strip - around 30 miles away - so the main danger is from the odd rocket which is fired towards my area. Several have landed in the area, one just a found hundred yards from my home.

Still, I don't really get out of the house unless it's neccesary. You never know when a rocket will be fired, so you always want to be around the saferoom at home. Plus, admittedly, I can't get the people near the Gaza strip who found armed terrorists in front of them in the street out of my head. Not too likely to happen here, but who knows. Once would be one too many...
 
@Murder on Zidane's Floor its anti cnutism not antisemitism! I wouldn’t worry about your hatred there, most moderate Israeli Zionist Jews hate those types!

I wish people would stop talking about beheaded babies. It’s upsetting emotionally, and really quite irrelevant to the whole situation, whether they were decapitated, strangeled or merely had their throats slit. They are dead, rest in peace.
 




more here ^


He’s being melodramatic. No journalist enabled atrocities. The atrocities underway in Gaza are 100% the responsibility of Israel. And would 100% have happened with or without this misinformation being shared.

The level of hysteria around this beheaded babies myth (assuming it’s a myth) is fecking nuts. Hundreds of people, of all ages, were slaughtered by Hamas. That is what provoked the response we’ve seen so far. Not Chinese whispers about beheaded babies.
 




more here ^


Dude chill. You've got multiple soldiers, reporters, first responders confirming they've seen it and Israel has now officially confirmed it after a few days I suppose they needed to identify remains and inform families.

That's enough for most people, including Biden clearly. People feverishly trying to claim misinfo about everything to do with this story aren't doing themselves any favours.
 
I didn't say a word about beheading babies

You were among those who posted first when the news about the babies broke. The point is that no one on here advocated for the destruction of Gaza because of it.
 
Can we please stop talking about beheaded babies. It adds nothing to the discourse.
 


Some light hearted humour from a big orange monkey to change the tone.
 
Why are you calling it an "Arab conspiracy", when it's only one member of the GCC that is publicly pro-Hamas/-Iran?
No, I'm not calling it that, that's the point. There are many influences and lobbies in the USA. Only one has the conspiracists frothing at the mouth.
 
So just to clarify, as of this very moment there is no electricity anymore in Gaza?

 
@Murder on Zidane's Floor its anti cnutism not antisemitism! I wouldn’t worry about your hatred there, most moderate Israeli Zionist Jews hate those types!

I wish people would stop talking about beheaded babies. It’s upsetting emotionally, and really quite irrelevant to the whole situation, whether they were decapitated, strangeled or merely had their throats slit. They are dead, rest in peace.
Agree, I'll refrain from posting it.
 


2nd most deadly attack on US citizens since 9/11.

Presidential material

Yep. Hezbollah is attacking from the North because Biden told them to! (thats Israels weakspot folks) Not because they are erm, based in the North and can't exactly attack from anywhere else. :lol: I don't understand how their choices for president are this...thing, or Biden.
 


You see things like this, the Louie Thereoux doc, and it's hard not to despise the people involved.

I feel the same when I hear Muslim Clerics talk about Sharia Law, or Muslim leaders espouse utter nonsense to justify stoning people, or the Catholic Church saying utter disgusting things, I realised it's not antisemitism because I hate all fanatics, regardless of religion. It all makes my stomach turn.

Fanatical people are a bane on modern civilization. I truly despair.

Yes and it's amplified heavily by the recently rediscovered love of fascist nationalism across the globe
 
Someone has usually generated a translation in the comments somewhere:



Okay he doesn't say anything in the video. Read the article though, an Israeli journalist who was at the site said he saw no evidence of any beheadings.

Can we please put this hateful rumor to test then?
 
Someone has usually generated a translation in the comments somewhere:


Based on that translation, there's nothing out of the ordinary. Seems a regular message from a soldier to his viewers to keep a positive spirit.