I think the US and Israel need to tread carefully with what they do here, if they really are going to take Gaza apart then it could set fire to the whole region.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) look forward to a new life under Ruben Amorim. What system will we be playing? What players will impress? and how will it all go? We also say goodbye to Ruud Van Nistelrooy and review United's 3-0 win at home against Leicester City.
I have no idea who you are talking about. Neither are smart, or are particularly good on foreign affairs, but Cruz has a beard.
Not sure, since the question is specifically about civilians (and takes destroying Hamas as a given).
So I read the answer as (most likely) that "eradicating" Hamas is paramount above all other concerns (which, to be fair, seems to be the official US line after Blinken deleted his own call for restraint), or, (less likely), that the crowds defiling bodies means that the entire population cannot be co-existed with and must be eradiated. I don't really read it as a statement on violence against Hamas itself.
What he literally said was that Hamas should have thought of the consequences of their actions.
What I think he wanted to imply is that Hamas carries the (majority) of the moral responsibility for what's happening now. The equivalent of "they started it". He looks like a cnut to me for posting it like that, but I don't see how it calls for war crimes, at least not explicitly.
Think it’s Cruz, the lawyer dude. I disagree and think he’s a smart bloke.
I'm sure he'll be delighted to know that someone out there actually likes him, and doesn't just merely tolerate him.
I'm sure that Hamas, who care about nothing other than the eradication of Israel, even gave a single second's thought about Palestinian civilians.
I often keep quiet in this thread because it needs a bigger brain than mine to properly convey feelings over, but I despair at how fecked everything is. Two million innocent people, trapped, being held hostage by an Israel that is afraid of what might come through their checkpoints if they opened them up, because they know if they let their guards down for a second Hamas would kill them all. But what is the price? The subjugation of innocent Palestinians, the indiscriminate bombing and killing over decades, while the world sits back and says "this is fine".
Palestinians are not Hamas, but Hamas cannot be stopped without putting Palestinian lives at risk. The alternative is the obliteration of Israel and it's people. But the cost is that the people of Gaza are fecked. No matter is Hamas wins or Israel wins, Palestinians in Gaza are fecked.
What on earth makes you think I’d like a guy like that?
It leads me to wonder how you think "peaceful protest" is getting the Palestinians anywhere. In any case, as another poster explained, it wasn't peaceful protest that ended apartheid in South Africa.
You'd think that most militaries would study the philosophy of Sun Tzu, you never corner your enemy otherwise they fight to the death.
He is explicitly asked "can Israel destroy Hamas without killing thousands of innocent people, including children."
His answer is "Israel must destroy Hamas."
It's pretty clear what he is saying.
This distinction is being made primarily by pro-Israeli people. You are literally looking at it backward.
The reason the distinction is highlighted is because the Israeli military kills babies using non-decapitative methods fairly regularly.
Fair enough. Sorry Cruz, this one doesn't like you either.
Have been unable to get through to a close friend of mine, an intensive care doctor working for MSF in Gaza since the bombing began. Another friend is Palestinian origin and returned to the West Bank to try to improve the lives of Palestinians there. Also been unable to get through to him. Hope they're both OK.
@ScholesyTheWise @Amir Hope you guys both remain safe and are doing as well as you can be considering the circumstances.
@ScholesyTheWise @Amir Hope you guys both remain safe and are doing as well as you can be considering the circumstances.
Sad to hear that. Hope they are OK and get through this.
Sums up how I feel and why I have only made a few, largely tangential posts in this thread. Unlike Brexit or even Ukraine, I don’t have the capacity to fool myself that there is a realistic even vaguely fair solution in this context. It just feels hopeless, a cycle of degradation and humiliation leading to radicalisation leading to further insecurity and then to more repression etc…
Fecking up the offers of a two state solution didn’t help. But as I said, it’s not analogous.
Sun Tzu wrote a load on sieges. It’s not all relevant, but he did say it was a last resort And that he was really against them. The best strategy was to make the enemy come out and surrender.
If the MSF guy has a satphone and there's been no contact for 24h, dm me. I can try something. EU/US citizen?
Your doctor friend's life is worth so much more then his own at the moment. I really hope they're all ok.
CBA quoting those involved, but to say the BBC are reporting on this affair impartiality is laughable.
Loss of life on the Israel sides are being reported as 'people have been killed'. Loss of life in Gaza is reported as 'people have died'. It's horrendous reporting and continues to drive an uncomfortable narrative in the UK.
Loss of life on the Israel sides are being reported as 'people have been killed'. Loss of life in Gaza is reported as 'people have died'. It's horrendous reporting and continues to drive an uncomfortable narrative in the UK.
Thank you, will continue trying and let you know if not. Not 100% sure if he has a satphone or not. He's an Aussie/Kiwi.
Well, I guess everything can be compared - more I think when you read literature about E Germany it was a struggle but without the constant attacks and reliance on aid, so Palestine looks much much worse. There was rationing, food shortages, heating issues and they were forcibly penned onto their side of the wall to stop them working in the W but the main 'fear' was from the Stasi as I recall. If you just went about your business without trying to escape/try anything (not that that is a good scenario to be in) it was quite a safe society versus looking at Israel/Palestine now where there are thousands of civilians now getting shelled into oblivion.
Why is this notion of revenge completely acceptable at a nation level by so many people? Why is it that Israel are just completely justified in rinsing Gaza to kingdom come now, is there no bar that we are holding modern, wealthy, 1st world societies to?
If you asked any of these people in everyday life if someone should be allowed kill a person that murdered one of their family members, I feel like most would say no, they should go to prison. But a regional superpower is deserving of overshadowing anything that happened in their country, because why?
If you asked any of these people in everyday life if someone should be allowed kill a person that murdered one of their family members, I feel like most would say no, they should go to prison. But a regional superpower is deserving of overshadowing anything that happened in their country, because why?
I’m no BBC apologist given its miserable failure around Brexit (and Corbyn, even if I’m not exactly a fan) but the website is led by articles on the unfolding humanitarian disaster in Gaza and also states: “The death toll in Israel from the Hamas attacks has reached 1,200 - while more than 1,100 people have been killed by Israeli air strikes on Gaza”. Are you referring to the TV news?
Yes purely the TV side.
The important thing is continued contact with his organisation. You should be able to contact them if you're not a part of it, but essentially he'll have a pager/phone that he uses to communicate he's aok every 24 hours or so. Usually that would include location too. I wouldn't worry though, MSF are very experienced and competent. They'll have procedures to pursue if he doesn't check in.
I agree with the spirit of your post. That being said, what do you suggest for Israel to do in response to last weekend's attack?
I reckon you knew exactly what you were doing.
Yes this is what I’ve been saying too.
Best thing I’ve read, I’d be really surprised if many disagree.
It's not that its acceptable, its that its the only way major powers have to deter and punish such actions from the groups they oppress or bully.
If somebody murdered your family member, they have to worry about the police. You would look to the state for revenge/punishment/safety.
Unfortunately the Israeli police cannot just go and arrest Hamas. And the whole population is looking to them for revenge/punishment/safety. This is how its done.
I don't know how fanciful it is but since Israel and all its allies are at the top of Intelligence services and special forces, maybe it would be a better idea to have an international special service coalition that target Hamas?
Because think about this, since Israel were caught by surprise what are the chances that this immediate response is based on a well thought plan? They are just bombing, destroying things for the sake of bombing and destroying.
Considering the problem of Hamas, I can’t see there’s much of an option other than full scale invasion?
Wait, you're not saying Palestinians are solely responsible for the failure of negotiations to reach final settlement, surely?
Both blacks in South Africa and Palestinians live/lived under apartheid. No two situations can possibly be identical, but it's clearly analogous.
That's an incredibly stupid take. Why would they do that, when they have terrain to clear for a huge and dangerous impending ground attack?
Serious question incoming:
I have a family trip planned to Egypt in 2 weeks, with the wife and kids. 2 days in Cairo, the rest Nile cruise.
It's with a agency from Egypt, a sort of private tour.
Should we go?
Anyone from Egypt? What's the situation?
I have a family trip planned to Egypt in 2 weeks, with the wife and kids. 2 days in Cairo, the rest Nile cruise.
It's with a agency from Egypt, a sort of private tour.
Should we go?
Anyone from Egypt? What's the situation?
By all means stand up against your oppressive regime, but personally I find it a bit pathetic to start championing the US (who overthrew your democratically elected leader Mossadegh if you recall, and sided with Saddam during the Iraq-Iran war) and cheerleading for Israel, an apartheid nation.Thanks mate. Yes, and also there is this famous video from 2020 Tehran right after Trump sent Suleimani to hell to burn eternally....The public refused to walk on Israeli/US flags and the few regime supporters who did it were massively booed and told at: Here is the video: (btw, how do we attach now that Twitter is X?)
https://x.com/emilyshar1/status/1710881841211638203?s=20
Also these were some of the photos of Iranians at Israel-support rally in Toronto (I'd hazard there were 200-300 Iranians there at least)
I have the same issue with my fellow Kurds who don't see the hypocrisy of championing Israel.