Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Worth reminding people -
After those attacks, the Biden administration called for open "humanitarian corridors" for Palestinians to leave for Egypt's Sinai Desert, while insisting that it did not want a permanent expulsion.

"We believe that people should be able to stay in Gaza, their home," then–Secretary of State Antony Blinken told reporters on October 15, 2023. "But we also want to make sure that they're out of harm's way and that they're getting the assistance they need."

Blinken's suggestion may have come with a serious financial offer behind closed doors. On October 14, 2023, The Economist alluded to diplomatic discussions about paying off Egypt's debt in exchange for taking in refugees. That following day, the independent Egyptian news outlet Mada Masr reported that Egypt was "coming under pressure from western countries who are also offering economic incentives in an effort to come to a deal" over Palestinian refugees.

Josh Paul, a former State Department official who resigned in protest of Biden's approach to Gaza, says that Trump's approach "remains an outsourcing of U.S. policy to [Israeli Prime Minister] Benjamin Netanyahu." Netanyahu's goal, Paul adds, is to empty out Gaza, whether "through killing, forced deportations, or simply making it unlivable and then creating an exit route for those who are in urgent need."

https://reason.com/2025/01/27/trump-revives-bidens-failed-proposal-to-remove-palestinians-from-gaza/

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Trump is openly touting the US illegally occupying Gaza along with ethnic cleansing, and you want to waste your time talking about Harris.

literally the post i was replying to
Stunning that there were "Pro Palestinian" people on here would would argue all day that Trump and Biden/Harris were two sides of the same coin.
 
From the 1937 Peel Commission recommendations, the first internationally-sanctioned proposal for population ‘transfer’ as an appropriate solution to the problem of Jewish-Arab violence in Palestine:

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Stunning that you still want to make the argument that Trump and Harris are practically the same after yesterday's press conference.

What are you trying to do here? It's so nakedly transparent that you have to know people see through your act, so what's the point? Here is what you've done so far:

1. Start off with comparing Trump to Biden and Harris.
2. When people respond to you, ignore their points, say that focusing on other people than Trump right now doesn't make sense.
3. When it's pointed out that you're the one who started the comparisons, pivot to a stupid oneliner while pretending that earlier comments don't exist.

You are, obviously, suddenly ok with comparisons again. So, what someone who isn't like you would do is to go back and respond properly to the comments you ignored while you pretended comparisons were irrelevant.

You're the most empty shell of a poster I have ever seen, it's quite incredible.
 
forget doing anything as vp or potential prez. kamala couldn't even fecking pander. not just evil. deeply evil. but fecking incompetent. political malpractice.





 
Stunning that you still want to make the argument that Trump and Harris are practically the same after yesterday's press conference.
you don’t give two shits about palestine or stopping the ongoing genocide. let’s not kid ourselves here. you’re just pissed she lost and struggling to cope with it.
 
What are you trying to do here? It's so nakedly transparent that you have to know people see through your act, so what's the point? Here is what you've done so far:

1. Start off with comparing Trump to Biden and Harris.
2. When people respond to you, ignore their points, say that focusing on other people than Trump right now doesn't make sense.
3. When it's pointed out that you're the one who started the comparisons, pivot to a stupid oneliner while pretending that earlier comments don't exist.

You are, obviously, suddenly ok with comparisons again. So, what someone who isn't like you would do is to go back and respond properly to the comments you ignored while you pretended comparisons were irrelevant.

You're the most empty shell of a poster I have ever seen, it's quite incredible.

1. No one is talking to you.
2. If you want to talk about "ignoring points" there were equally as many that i made that were ignored by the other poster.
 
Be careful what you wish for and all that. Trump is a madman.

Many got what they wished for. Trump is in office and his stated policy is for the US to "own Gaza".

Not allowed to discuss that though because Harris did not allow some pro Palestinian protesters into the DNC.

Because the two things are basically the same.
 
Many got what they wished for. Trump is in office and his stated policy is for the US to "own Gaza".

Not allowed to discuss that though because Harris did not allow some pro Palestinian protesters into the DNC.

Because the two things are basically the same.

From October 7th 2023 until the end of Joe Biden's reign, USA has actively participated in Israel's genocide of Gaza. Kamala Harris was on team Biden. So, what exactly are you trying to tell us?
 
Many got what they wished for. Trump is in office and his stated policy is for the US to "own Gaza".

Not allowed to discuss that though because Harris did not allow some pro Palestinian protesters into the DNC.

Because the two things are basically the same.

This is what gaffs refers to by "Not allowed to discuss that though because Harris did not allow some pro Palestinian protesters into the DNC.":

What part of this was she lying about, and what would be material to the outcome in Palestine?
- Continue weapons supplies during a genocide
- Continue a failed ceasefire negotiation strategy which yielded no results for 14 months
- Continue a decades-long failed process towards a half-state with no rights (the mythical "two-state solution")

Why hasn't she explained - even for purely cynical reasons - after her defeat, what miracle she would have brought about? Can you explain why the same strategy would have yielded a different outcome when she executed it instead of Biden? Can you explain what incentive Bibi had to end the slaughter when there was continuing support from the US government and Israeli people? Can you explain why she sent the most pro-Israeli representative, Ritchie Torres to Michigan? Can you explain why she sent Bill Clinton to assert Israel's Biblical legitimacy to the Holy Land when campaigning in Michigan? Can you explain why she refused to allow a Palestinian supporter of hers at the DNC? Do you think these are the actions of a woman who thinks pro-Palestinian votes matter?

Trump seems about ready to eliminate my job. Almost certainly he will affect my life directly more than yours. I'm able to see past myself though. You should try it. It's a pretty fundamental part of being human.

Once again - the Biden/Harris strategy FAILED. Of course, the pertinent question is if the ceasefire strategy failed or it was a sham, given that every lay person, even my relative who watches only Morning Joe, could see that Bibi was stringing them along for his personal benefit. We had dozens of resignations from within State and other departments saying how the administration was lying about its own role, about its own compliance with US law, and about the Israeli role in the conflict and in negotiations.
60000+ people died with American weapons supplied by the Biden administration. (The numbers Trump cites for his ethnic cleansing seem to suggest that upto 400000 people might be dead btw).

And I'm sorry - among the many actions and inactions related to Palestine during her brief campaign, refusing to meet with Bibi once pales in comparison to explicitly backing the failed negotiation strategy, and arms shipments, and very explicitly and clearly opposing ANY leverage she might have used during negotiations as president. I notice you didn't mention any of these in your reply. I'm applying Occam's Razor here - something that has failed before will fail again. And there's no logic or evidence that there was going to be a change in strategy or that it was going to produce different results.

In the same way, negotiations for a "two-state solution" have been going on since before I was born. Israel benefits from the status quo, Israel benefits from a complete cleansing, but Israel loses if there is any increase in Palestinian autonomy. Why would Israel negotiate away the gains they have made over seven decades, if no US administration since George HW Bush has been willing to use its leverage over them? Quite simply, they won't! And haven't!
Now, I'm going to suggest a possible second reason why Biden and Harris would talk about the two state solution. The highest foreign policy priority of the Biden administration was Israel-Saudi normalisation. This has been confirmed in dozens of reports about Brett McGurk and Jake Sullivan, who ran Israel policy from the White House. The Saudis have made it clear that it is publicly humiliating for them to make a deal with Israel if Palestine continues to not exist. I am going to be bold and suggest that the two-state solution rhetoric is lip service from an administration that aided Palestinian genocide and prioritised Saudi normalisation.

I see that you haven't defended her use of "it's Judea and Samaria" Bill, or the lack of a Palestinian speaker at the DNC. About Ritchie - if you send a murderous bigot like him, you might alienate the community he's bigoted against. A very basic and important part of politics is managing and prioritising bits of your coalition that might be in conflict with each other. She made a clear choice with her actions including sending Ritchie to the one state where everyone knew Arab voters had a decisive proportion.

Please look at how Trump built his odious, winning, coalition. He went to the Libertarian Party conference, got booed, asked for their vote. He went to RFK Jr, looked weak and desparate, made him promises, asked for his backing, and it likely proved decisive, given the margins involved and his polling support. He went to Dearborn, found the highest-level sucker who would fall for his schtick, and had a mayor and an imam at his rally. He went to his old friend Adelson, made some dark promise, and got a hundred million dollars from her. He humiliated and debased himself, he lied and he spoke vague half-truths, and he won. That is politics. Kamala spoke her lies and half-truths in an even less convincing way, she and her party prefer to humiliate rather than court third-party voters. Going out to your voters - all potential voters - and telling them what they want to hear.


Finally, sure, I magically obtained US citizenship and voted for the guy who was promising to fire and/or deport me because I thought his genocide would be better than the existing genocide.

I'll leave you with these - DNC delegates hearing the names of dead Palestinians, and the most prominent national Democrat this week:
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Feb 2 2025: House Dem leader Hakeem Jeffries: “Sinwar is gone. Sinwar is gone. And Hamas is on the run... and Iran is at one of its weakest points in decades. “We can't take our foot off the gas pedal until Iran is brought to its knees — for the good of the world.“


ps - that candidate lost 3 months ago, during which thousands of Palestinians died. Any moment since was a good moment to speak about the genocide she is complicit in. She has chosen not to.

Ignoring multiple points, mentioning a small one, and lying by pretending that anyone is favoring Trump over Harris because of this. I haven't seen such a combination of brazen lies and stupidity on Redcafe before.
 
these comments from liberal israelis and their supporters are always so clarifying.



the cleansing will be voluntary!! but it might harm the places they are being dumped on :(
 
They're not going to be allowed to go to the US with Trump in power.
That said, if they clear out then that opens up Gaza for the Israeli to use as they see fit.
A terrible situation all around.
 
People were told well ahead of the election which choice was worse.
Anyone that supports Palestine and either didn't take the opportunity to vote for Harris or voted Trump should really be looking at their choices now across the board, cos they got this one very wrong.

Not according to the pro Trump / pro Palestinian voices in this thread.

Trump just announced he wants the US to "own" a sovereign land and kick the Palestinians out for good, while sanding next to a smirking Netanyahu, the man that killed those Palestinians and destroyed their territory. Zero outrage in this thread.

"But Kamala Harris sent a pro Israel congressman to speak to Jewish voters in MI" Because that exactly the same as what Trump is doing, right?
 
these comments from liberal israelis and their supporters are always so clarifying.



the cleansing will be voluntary!! but it might harm the places they are being dumped on :(


Why are you so focused on what "liberal israelis" are saying? If that person is infact one.

Yet radio silent on Trump's proposals?
 
Not according to the pro Trump / pro Palestinian voices in this thread.

Trump just announced he wants the US to "own" a sovereign land and kick the Palestinians out for good, while sanding next to a smirking Netanyahu, the man that killed those Palestinians and destroyed their territory. Zero outrage in this thread.

"But Kamala Harris sent a pro Israel congressman to speak to Jewish voters in MI" Because that exactly the same as what Trump is doing, right?
You are just reading what you want to hear, there are plenty of posts regarding Trump's plan which are frankly unrealistic like most of the shite he comes up with .

You're the one who keeps trying to deflect off genocide Joe and his sidekick Harris. At this point I think you are trolling.
 
Why are you so focused on what "liberal israelis" are saying? If that person is infact one.

Yet radio silent on Trump's proposals?

because israel and israelis, not trump, are the reason this conflict exists?

e - put you on ignore after seeing your other disingenuous reply before this, in the added context of your disingenuous bullshit yesterday. go back to worshipping the candidate for the bloodier genocide!
 
You are just reading what you want to hear, there are plenty of posts regarding Trump's plan which are frankly unrealistic like most of the shite he comes up with .

You're the one who keeps trying to deflect off genocide Joe and his sidekick Harris. At this point I think you are trolling.
In this thread? Since his presser with Bibi?
 
because israel and israelis, not trump, are the reason this conflict exists?

e - put you on ignore after seeing your other disingenuous reply before this, in the added context of your disingenuous bullshit yesterday. go back to worshipping the candidate for the bloodier genocide!


And you can go back to expecting Kamala Harris to come out and tell the world how her presidency would have been different, two weeks after Trump was inaugurated.

The fact that you even touted this as something that she should be doing tells me you're not a serious person, grounded in any kind of reality.
 
because israel and israelis, not trump, are the reason this conflict exists?
Such a simplistic and reductive statement seems (ironically) more than a little disingenuous.

Israel of course bears primary responsibility for their response to the Hamas terror attacks. However, US policy is largely shaped by whoever the President is and directly effects Israel's response and/or lack of restraint, and by turns the extent of Palestinian civilian suffering. By helping (note not solely causing) Trump to win people didn't just make a political point of dissatisfaction with Biden's response (who wasn't even the candidate by the election) but actively helped elect a President who is already demonstrating that he is prepared to give Netanyahu almost free reign. He might even blow up the current precarious ceasefire, even if his invasion and ethnic cleansing of Gaza is a brain fart/pipe dream (which I'm sure we all hope it is). Shouting angrily at the world because there is murder and injustice doesn't necessarily solve anything, whereas strategic thinking is far more likely to, and often that involves choosing the least shit option.

Did supporting Trump (or at the very least actively advocating against Biden or Harris) advance the Palestinian cause or just make things even worse?

And that is before you get into the larger historical context that lead to get to were we are today.
 
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It's pretty much forced population transfer and ethnic cleansing which is completely illegal in the eyes of almost every state in the world, this sort of plan is so batsh!t (up there with making Canada an American state, seizing Greenland etc..)that even the European and other western states that have been staunchly behind the US and isareli actions will not openly support. Even for shameless states like Saudi Arabia this would be a step too far and have already put out a statement rebuking it. If Trump wants to try and force Jordan and Egypt into accepting it, it will most likely push them into Chinese and Russian hands. Which imo won't be a bad thing, like I said the less influence the US has there the better.

European countries will support it because "is the only way out for the poor gazans". In a way I can't ask gazans to die and resist Israel also. Is their life. And I am sure, most of them they would like to be relocated because this genocide seems to have no end in death and cruelty and is not only that the world is turning a blind eye, is that the world governments is supporting it

Seems that is death or moving out. I know what I would choose for my family. And is something that I said that it will end happening after 3 or 4 months. Israel set their minds and they will keep killing through bombs, misery or push them away. There is no return
 
you don’t give two shits about palestine or stopping the ongoing genocide. let’s not kid ourselves here. you’re just pissed she lost and struggling to cope with it.
The problem with posters like you and quite a few others in here is that you can't take any opinion that differs from your own, even slightly.

In your collective heads you would rather fantasise that posters like Gaffs, who think Israel have behaved despicably, but who also think things like having trump in power is an even bigger disaster than electing Harris, are Palestinian hating enemies.

A quick search of Gaffs posts shows that you are delusional.
It is absolutely shocking that Israel are using white phosphorus in Gaza...

202310mena_palestine_white_phosphorous_artillery_gaza.jpg


https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/10/12/israel-white-phosphorus-used-gaza-lebanon

Israel has one ambition - the genocide and complete destruction of the Palestinian people.
The outrage is with Israel's attack.

The Hamas attack was outrageous. Israel have sunk even lower and are about to create one of the biggest humanitarian crisis's of all time.

They have no regard for the hostages that Hamas have taken. They will be seen as collateral damage in Israels quest to destroy the Palestinian people.

Quite honestly, it is so unbelievable that Hamas planned and carried out this attached without Mossad knowing about it. The Biden administration just came out and said they received credible intel that there was an increased risk of attack.

My theory - Israel allowed the attack on their own people, just so they had the cover to wipe out Gaza and it's people.
Clear out Hamas, then what? What of the 2milion people that live there?
Agree. Israel have been given carte blanche to what they have wanted to do for years.

In their mind, killing kids in Palestine is justified as they see them as future Hamas members.
I believe that it will lead to a new generation of terrorists and an even greater threat to Israel.

12,000+ Palestinians killed so far. The vast majority innocents and half children. It will only lead to further hatred towards Israel for generations to come.

You owe Gaffs an apology. Not holding my breath mind.
 
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Insulting another member
you’re getting old and miserable @Wibble and it’s showing. put me on ignore instead of getting worked up. I don’t need to tell you whether I’m pro or anti trump. my posts are pretty clear in terms of where I stand. you’re the one living in a delusion that somehow those funding a genocide would magically reverse their position for the better.
 
I seem to remember a similar plan where some people wanted to relocate European Jews to Madagascar. Of course this is before these same people went forward with a different solution designed around extermination, which also reminds me of something I saw recently.

History doesn't repeat but it reichs.
 
The problem with posters like you and quite a few others in here is that you can't take any opinion that differs from your own, even slightly.

In your collective heads you would rather fantasise that posters like Gaffs, who think Israel have behaved despicably, but who also think things like having trump in power is an even bigger disaster than electing Harris, are Palestinian hating enemies.

A quick search of Gaffs posts shows that you are delusional.



You owe a Gaffs an apology. Not holding my breath mind.
And your problem is that you'll never be able to grasp the fact that some here consider Trump and its Democratic counter-part as equally malevolent for Palestine and the Palestinians, whilst not holding Trump in any kind of esteem and seeing him for what he is. This is supported by decades of toxic and destructive US policies in the region, no matter who was at the helm of the White House.

Harris who was an eminent part of the US administration that actively supported and financed a genocide, has shown no intent to deviate from Biden's policies and was just paying lip service whilst still giving a blank check to Israel. Trump just lays it bare and skips the platitudes, that's the only difference. He's a disaster and a piece of shit, but he at least acts like one without any pretense. Not that it makes him a better choice, mind.

You've had two mares, one in the Middle-East Politics thread and one in this very thread a few weeks ago with people rightly pushing back and calling your bullshit out. Yet you still don't want to take a breath and reconsider your position. Instead you come here yet again, with a vengeance, and do what you do best, which is doubling down on disingenous accusations, straw manning, lobbing grenades and finger pointing. Until people call you out once again, forcing you to take a deep dive... until next time.

You have no leg to stand on and certainly no right to demand any kind of apology for anyone behaving just like you. Especially given your posting history in this thread.
 
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Not according to the pro Trump / pro Palestinian voices in this thread.

Trump just announced he wants the US to "own" a sovereign land and kick the Palestinians out for good, while sanding next to a smirking Netanyahu, the man that killed those Palestinians and destroyed their territory. Zero outrage in this thread.

"But Kamala Harris sent a pro Israel congressman to speak to Jewish voters in MI" Because that exactly the same as what Trump is doing, right?

You're lying again.
 
For fecks sake why is everyone trying to one up each other? Both governments have been absolutely catastrophic for the poor Palestinians - Biden and Harris oversaw more than 3% of the population killed (63k verified, expected to be an undercount) and another 7% injured. Without any ceasefire - there is nothing to indicate this would have stopped
Trump was always going to go this way - he’s the one who moved the embassy to Jerusalem and openly talked about the real estate value of Gaza.
Regardless of whichever candidate one, we were looking at an ethnic cleansing - either one where the leader pretended to feel bad, or the other where they openly took glee in it.
Doubt the Palestinians see any difference
 
even if his invasion and ethnic cleansing of Gaza is a brain fart/pipe dream (which I'm sure we all hope it is).
What?

I don't know what game you're playing but the level of equivocation, contortions and distortions you have engaged in since the 7th October, to the detriment of the suffering Palestinian people, is obscene.
 
Liberalism on Palestine (and really every other issue) the last two years is basically this:

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It failed. Time to move on.
 
I’m not clued up on the knowledge on the area as others but can someone explain Hamas’s motives behind their attack and kidnappings? It just seems to have given Israel the excuse to carry out their ethnic cleansing of the area and destroy Gaza.
They were effectively at their wits end.

Israel successfully used Hamas to indefinitely postpone and reject a two-state solution (you can't discuss and/or negociate with tERroriSTs), choking Gaza (read about the humanitarian diet) whilst grinding out more and more of the West Bank. The Abraham Accords signed during the first Trump administration effectively meant the disappearance of Palestine, in a worldwide indifference, with the Arab countries in the region fully signing on as a ultimate betrayal. Hamas then went full Nat Turner (without the alledged baby beheadings and mass rapes though, but still with plenty of atrocities) in order to put Palestine on the map again.

Kidnapping is also a kinda misused word. There's ten of thousands of Palestinians, including lots of children, being tortured and rotting in Israeli prisons, with a large majority of them being held indefinitely without any motive (see administrative detention). They're as much hostages as the Israeli civilians taken captive by Hamas and a huge deal among Palestinians, but you'll never see it written as such in Western media. It's always Israeli hostages vs Palestinian prisoners (implying that the Palestinians automatically did something wrong). Getting those free, which generally only occurs in an exchange with Israeli hostages, earns massive bonus points to whoever manages to do it. However the Israeli soldiers who were captured are POW, not hostages.

At the end of the day, Hamas were cornered with their back to the wall, so they gambled. Massively.

They wanted to unlock the Israeli ever tightening stranglehold on Gaza and the West Bank. Given the complete indifference of the world towards the Palestinian people and its fate, only a massive, bloody operation against the Israeli occupation forces and its civilians would force the world to turn their eyes once again on this region. What would happen in the long-term was impossible to predict, but it is foolish to think that Hamas didn't count on Israel's immediate response. They perfectly knew who they were dealing with and cynically banked on it. It might shock many blissfull ignorants in the West, but it was and still is the M.O. of many resistance groups against an overwhelmingly superior occupation force in a war of independence.

The rest is History and now well beyond Hamas' control. 10/7 was the small stone that lead to an avalanche. Who the avalanche catches in the way is anyone's guess.
 
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What?

I don't know what game you're playing but the level of equivocation, contortions and distortions you have engaged in since the 7th October, to the detriment of the suffering Palestinian people, is obscene.
I think it entirely obvious what I'm saying. Trumps announcement that he will ethnically cleans Gaza may well destroy the ceasefire, even if it never happens, it is hardly a stretch given the mainstream reputable press have widely mentioned it as a fear/possibility. And we all hope it he never gets to ethnically cleanse/occupy Gaza (amazed that that has to be said).

You are another prime example of a poster who treats other posters who think Israel have behaved despicably (and the US backing them as expected) as if they were in some bizarre way pro-genocide. Basically anything less than 100% mirroring what you say and you leap into "ENEMY" mode. Grow the feck up.
 
European countries will support it because "is the only way out for the poor gazans". In a way I can't ask gazans to die and resist Israel also. Is their life. And I am sure, most of them they would like to be relocated because this genocide seems to have no end in death and cruelty and is not only that the world is turning a blind eye, is that the world governments is supporting it

Seems that is death or moving out. I know what I would choose for my family. And is something that I said that it will end happening after 3 or 4 months. Israel set their minds and they will keep killing through bombs, misery or push them away. There is no return
Like I said I don't think this is the case, this plan is a step too far even for European countries despite how despicable they have been regarding this issue in the first place.

I agree for someone like you and me who have been brought up and live in western comfort we would up and leave in a heart beat. For oppressed natives it means more than material, and I say this about any people in the world which have been invaded/colonised, it's resistance or nothing. Palestinians have been resisting their occupier for a 100 years they won't stop now.

Despite all the US aid Israel can't afford to keep fighting this war, imo it's one of the reasons they were pushed into a ceasefire. Israeli gdp has shrunk 20% since the start of their invasion, their tourism has dropped by 75% and suffering severe labor shortages. Their citizens are used to living a western standard of life they won't put up with less which the war is leading to.
 
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you’re getting old and miserable @Wibble and it’s showing. put me on ignore instead of getting worked up. I don’t need to tell you whether I’m pro or anti trump. my posts are pretty clear in terms of where I stand. you’re the one living in a delusion that somehow those funding a genocide would magically reverse their position for the better.
You fail at discussion so you revert to silly labels. FYI I'm someone who has lived and worked in the religion for a number of years so I also have quite a bit of first hand experience to inform my opinions - Israel, Egypt and UAE, with Egypt the only one I enjoyed/could tolerate living in.

And it is utterly delusional to think that Harris would have been worse than Trump who in his first week announces that he intends to ethnically cleans the entire of Gaza, with US troops if necessary, with Netanyahu cheering on from the sideline.

The choice was only which was the least shit option for Palestine, and obviously and predictably the massively more shit option is Trump.
 
In this thread? Since his presser with Bibi?
This just proves your only motive in this thread is to wind up and troll anyone who believes Biden and Trump are just as bad as each other on this issue. Because of this you have ignored all the posts commenting on the plan - that's your fault no one else's. I'm not even sure what you are trying to achieve, you are making out there a bunch of MAGA supporters here when nearly everyone has come out and said Trump is a moron.

Article from December 2023


What are your comments on this by the way? And please don't ignore it like you have whenever someone points out the actions of Biden which have not been dissimilar to Trump. If Biden wasn't as bad as Trump on this issue why didn't he reverse Trump's embassy decision and recognition of the Golan Heights? I'll stop here as I'll let you respond to each issue with Biden slowly.

You seem to take issue with people that say there would be no difference between Biden and Trump on this issue, well the proof is in the pudding. Trump's presser is just saying out loud what Biden was trying to do quietly in the background.

I would appreciate a proper response to these questions and not another hit and run one liner. If not, on the ignore list you will go.
 
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You fail at discussion so you revert to silly labels. FYI I'm someone who has lived and worked in the religion for a number of years so I also have quite a bit of first hand experience to inform my opinions - Israel, Egypt and UAE, with Egypt the only one I enjoyed/could tolerate living in.

And it is utterly delusional to think that Harris would have been worse than Trump who in his first week announces that he intends to ethnically cleans the entire of Gaza, with US troops if necessary, with Netanyahu cheering on from the sideline.

The choice was only which was the least shit option for Palestine, and obviously and predictably the massively more shit option is Trump.
multiple posters have pointed out how stupid your logic is in this and various other threads. feel free to reply to them and leave me on ignore. I don’t even know how one could make a moral argument about the least shit option in the context of genocide. but you do, pal.
 
This just proves your only motive in this thread is to wind up and troll anyone who believes Biden and Trump are just as bad as each other on this issue. Because of this you have ignored all the posts commenting on the plan - that's your fault no one else's. I'm not even sure what you are trying to achieve, you are making out there a bunch of MAGA supporters here when nearly everyone has come out and said Trump is a moron.


What are your comments on this by the way? And please don't ignore it like you have whenever someone points out the actions of Biden which have not been dissimilar to Trump. If Biden wasn't as bad as Trump on this issue why didn't he reverse Trump's embassy decision and recognition of the Golan Heights? I'll stop here as I'll let you respond to each issue with Biden slowly.

You seem to take issue with people that say there would be no difference between Biden and Trump on this issue, well the proof is in the pudding. Trump's presser is just saying out loud what Biden was trying to do quietly in the background.

I would appreciate a proper response to these questions and not another hit and run one liner. If not, on the ignore list you will go.

That article is nowhere near equivalent to what Donald Trump said, to be fair in all this.
 
That article is nowhere near equivalent to what Donald Trump said, to be fair in all this.
In what sense? The result is the same - etnnic cleansing/forced population transfer of the Gaza strip.

Obviously Trump has his rediculous delivery but that's besides the point.

BTW that is one source, there are others where it is reported Blinken went to Jordan and Egypt with the same plan but was rejected by both.