Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

owlo said:
Had all of the IRA been stuck in Belfast unable to escape and they'd just rolled into London and killed 1200+, you could viably have seen a siege of the city
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All of Hamas isn't in Gaza. It's spread throughout the Arab diaspora intentionally.
 
golden_blunder said:
Ok leaving aside my comparison, my point is not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas. Israel’s response is going to create them further long term problems. Whilst I understand their emotional reaction, it’s not going to solve any problem for them, it’s going to exacerbate the problems
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I agree, or tend to, which is why I've continually said I think they should have held fire for 7 days to see what could be done. It was never going to happen though, and I'm not sure if we aren't already in the 'completely fecked' stage where both sides are essentially locked in. Given they've started this, they don't really have a capacity to stop at this point. My biggest realistic wish/hope is that they'd start acting like Israel, and using Israeli tactics, instead of resorting to Russian ones.
 
owlo said:
Yes, it was. There's been a million articles about this; most are in agreement that mainly peaceful means not insurgent ones brought an end to apartheid. Happy to point you to a few.
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Like the boycott of South Africa? Loss of US support for apartheid? Essentially international isolation. How have Palestinian initiatives for the boycott of Israel been received in western countries?
 
hasanejaz88 said:
@Ragnar123 was given justification for the blockage of Gaza and apartheid in West Bank by referencing the wars Israel has fought and their security. I gave an example of a country that started two world wars and were a free country 10 years afterwards.

You can argue about East Germany, but that was because it the Soviet Union, who pretty much everyone agrees were not correct in what they were doing there. Also, East Germans had much much more freedom than any Palestinians today.

Now tell me, did Germans suffer the same fate as the Palestinians have for the last 50 years? Do all wars result in an apartheid?
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I made it clear what I responded to you about.

I never compared the plight of any Germans to Palestinians, the situation on the ground is not comparable. The majority of wars result, as I said twice to you already, with whoever is strongest taking advantage of the weak. In this case Palestine unfortunately for them as time has gone one has become the weaker.
 
VorZakone said:
So...thoughts on this source then?

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Always a fire with this much smoke. Still think there's something a bit fishy going on. Why would Israel intentionally hush up and underreport an atrocity like that for days? The only reason I can imagine is if they believe the population is so febrile, they cannot be trusted with such information, so it's being drip fed. Israel also saying they 'will not open an investigation' making it look like they want to downplay it as much as possible.
 
Super Hans said:
Like the boycott of South Africa? Loss of US support for apartheid? Essentially international isolation. How have Palestinian initiatives for the boycott of Israel been received in western countries?
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Leading you to further believe the two situations are not analogous.
 
do.ob said:
People keep saying that, but I don't think it's necessarily true, since they seem to be holding all the cards in this situation.
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Even if they wiped out everyone in Gaza, there are lots of Palestinian folk living abroad, plus supporters from other countries. It’s going to keep going
 
Bernie Sanders made a statement for what it's worth (Probably very little)

 
Simbo said:
Anyone else struggle to get anything done with these things going on in the world? It's been bad enough with Ukraine, but now this too. At least Ukraine is fairly black and white, this is all murky grey with too many blotches of black and not enough specs of white, so difficult to understand. I have a constant urge to check latest developments and try in vain to figure things out.

I know, woe me.
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I’m alright in the office. Working from home though it’s easier for your mind to wander to it
 
Ragnar123 said:
Even if there was a warning, it still depends on what kind of a warning it was. A potential 2nd holocaust warning or the usual daily threats that Israel is probably used to.
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Easy.


If you insist on using that particular hyperbole you might have gotten it backwards. Only one side has the potential to do that. And arguably has been doing that, slowly, over decades.
 
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Simbo said:
Thoughts on this historical summary?

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I'll try to be diplomatic. Not good. Tweet number 4 is where it goes entirely off the rails (I didn't read beyond that). It completely ignores the zionist project, behind the iron wall of the British Empire, to take over Palestine from the Arabs (90% of the population) by any means necessary. This was the root of the conflict, essentially from the Balfour Declaration. That British commitment to the Zionist project was EVERYTHING and the Arab resistance to their displacement and dispossession was inevitable.
 
Why do you seek ultra-extra confirmation of baby beheadings? did you look for graphic proof of all the other executions?
 
Simbo said:
Anyone else struggle to get anything done with these things going on in the world? It's been bad enough with Ukraine, but now this too. At least Ukraine is fairly black and white, this is all murky grey with too many blotches of black and not enough specs of white, so difficult to understand. I have a constant urge to check latest developments and try in vain to figure things out.

I know, woe me.
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My day jobs productivity is way down, but thankfully my employer is understanding. As long as I let them know what I need, I'm ok.
 
carvajal said:
Why do you seek ultra-extra confirmation of baby beheadings? did you look for graphic proof of all the other executions?
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Because it's an extremely sensitive accusation aimed at Hamas, and Israel has a history of lies. So people want Western journalists to say outright "Yes, I saw it with my own eyes".
 
owlo said:
I like it. Balanced statement and clear on his views. @Raoul might have thoughts.
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Its balanced but won't resonate much given that the lefties that once supported him will be very pro-Palestinian. If anything it may give the likes of AOC and her pals a bit of pause before they tweet. Sanders also has a somewhat unique perspective among US politicians in that he himself was also a part of a kibutz in the early 60s.
 
carvajal said:
Why do you seek ultra-extra confirmation of baby beheadings? did you look for graphic proof of all the other executions?
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It's being used to legitimise continued murder.

As jaded as we are by war and death, thankfully infanticide is not yet just shrugged off.
 
Something I have noticed with the media coverage is the lack of reporting on the situation in Gaza, is this more down to no press behind the border or have they just turning a blind eye to what's going on over there ?
 
hp88 said:
Something I have noticed with the media coverage is the lack of reporting on the situation in Gaza, is this more down to no press behind the border or have they just turning a blind eye to what's going on over there ?
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A bit of both and also the massive pro-israel agenda
 
hp88 said:
Something I have noticed with the media coverage is the lack of reporting on the situation in Gaza, is this more down to no press behind the border or have they just turning a blind eye to what's going on over there ?
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I was thinking about that but extended it to Israel. There isn't actually much direct reports from the most affected places, it seems to be second, third or fourth hand reports.
 
Maybe it's also possible that journalists value their own life and don't want to get into an active warzone, that's constantly being bombed. For Western reporters the Islamist factor probably also plays a role.
 
JPRouve said:
I was thinking about that but extended it to Israel. There isn't actually much direct reports from the most affected places, it seems to be second, third or fourth hand reports.
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Israel has military censorship that tends to kick in during times of crisis which might explain it.
 
hp88 said:
Something I have noticed with the media coverage is the lack of reporting on the situation in Gaza, is this more down to no press behind the border or have they just turning a blind eye to what's going on over there ?
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Thats the way it's always been. The daily suffering in Gaza is not news because even covering it points a finger at Israel.
 
do.ob said:
Maybe it's also possible that journalists value their own life and don't want to get into an active warzone, that's constantly being bombed. For Western reporters the Islamist factor probably also plays a role.
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Fisk was amazing.
 
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