Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Only if you consider that water isn't essential.
Well humans managed without electricity for 1000's of years so whilst preferable it isn't technically essential, without water you die
 
100 newborns, 1,100 dialysis patients face looming power outages in Gaza: Doctor
Speaking to Al Jazeera, Hassan Khalaf, the medical director of Al Wafa Hospital in Gaza City, said hospitals in the besieged enclave are relying on generators, which are not equipped to power many medical devices.
He predicted the generators have only “maximum a few days”, which may be as short as a day or two, amid dwindling fuel supplies as a result of the “complete siege” announced by Israeli Defense Minister Gallant.
Khalaf said there are currently 100 newborn babies relying on medical equipment currently in Gaza.
“These newborns they could not survive…because they depend in every aspect of life on electricity and equipment,” he said. “They are very tiny. They are very weak”.
The doctor also said there were about 1,100 patients who rely on dialysis machines for survival in Gaza, saying the Israeli siege amounts to “mass killing”.
 
The smell of death is all around now in Gaza – doctor
Joel Gunter
Reporting from Jerusalem
Mahmoud Matar, the head of limb reconstruction surgery at a hospital in Gaza, is sending WhatsApp messages to the BBC, describing his situation as Israeli air bombardments continue.
“We are completely overwhelmed with the number of injuries and the number of dead,” he said.
“The dead bodies arrive in pieces. I am a surgeon and yet I cannot stomach the scene of death.”
“Families here have seen their homes demolished over their heads, killing all but maybe one or two people, who come to the hospital with terrible injuries.
“We all feel disabled - we cannot help people."
He says at the moment he wishes he was not a doctor. "I cannot save my own family, my children are at home crying while I am on duty.”
Mahmoud says the hospital’s operating theatre is running non-stop and the hospital beds are full.
By his count, more than 10 ambulance staff have been killed or injured and he personally knows a gynaecologist and urologist who have died.
“The smell of death is all around now in Gaza. There is no water, there will be no electricity, and we have very bad network connection. I am currently looking for water to drink.”
 
Well humans managed without electricity for 1000's of years so whilst preferable it isn't technically essential, without water you die

This isn't a biology quizz. Gaza relies on plants to get fresh water, I don't care about biology 101 but the reality of life in Gaza.
 
I just hope Israel threatens a humanitarian catastrophe only to put pressure on Hamas to release the hostages, maybe even force the Palestinians themselves to turn on Hamas. I don't believe that even Netanyahu is ready to go through with a genocide. He would lose all international support and we'd probably see a Dresden like bombing already if it was the case.
 
I just hope Israel threatens a humanitarian catastrophe only to put pressure on Hamas to release the hostages, maybe even force the Palestinians themselves to turn on Hamas. I don't believe that even Netanyahu is ready to go through with a genocide. He would lose all international support and we'd probably see a Dresden like bombing already if it was the case.
Sadly it seems pretty clear Israel's plan is to go into Gaza which only has one outcome and that is mass casualties for everyone coupled with them levelling everything they can't capture.
 
Sadly it seems pretty clear Israel's plan is to go into Gaza which only has one outcome and that is mass casualties for everyone coupled with them levelling everything they can't capture.

Well what's clear is Hamas can't exist anymore after what they've done. If they use human shields, what can you do? I don't see a solution and I'm glad I don't need to make that decision.
 
There's a crazy amount of misinformation in this thing.

This entire thread really. People just spamming anything they can find on Twitter to support their "side". Impossible to sift through any of it.

What is the saying, "the first casualty of war is truth"?
 
This is true. Can't see them going back to the old stalemate after this. Hamas will likely be gone after the ground invasion.

And we can't forget that Hisbollah, which is far stronger than Hamas, is watching. Meaning a stalemate would only encourage them to similar barbarism in the future. If Hamas ceases to exist after this, they will think twice to follow in their footsteps.
 
King of Jordan, as reported by CNN, promotes the two-state solution.
Jordan’s King Abdullah said on Wednesday that the two-state solution will provide security, peace and stability in the region.

“Our region will not enjoy security and stability without achieving a just and comprehensive peace based on the two-state solution,” King Abdullah told Jordan’s parliament in a speech.
 
You’re moving purposefully away from what you said and this is a weak response. Attempting to say I compared Palestine to West Germany is poor form, clearly dispelled by simply looking at the post exchange. The ending to your post is somewhat ironic.

@Ragnar123 was given justification for the blockage of Gaza and apartheid in West Bank by referencing the wars Israel has fought and their security. I gave an example of a country that started two world wars and were a free country 10 years afterwards.

You can argue about East Germany, but that was because it the Soviet Union, who pretty much everyone agrees were not correct in what they were doing there. Also, East Germans had much much more freedom than any Palestinians today.

Now tell me, did Germans suffer the same fate as the Palestinians have for the last 50 years? Do all wars result in an apartheid? Do you get why I made the comparison and any justification for what Israel have done as being a consequence of war is stupid?
 
I get the analogy you're trying to make, but the calculus was simply different. Had all of the IRA been stuck in Belfast unable to escape and they'd just rolled into London and killed 1200+, you could viably have seen a siege of the city. It wouldn't have looked the same as there were far less of them and they didn't have heavy weaponry, but it would have been brutal. Look at Afghanistan and Iraq. Places far away, but still.
Ok leaving aside my comparison, my point is not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas. Israel’s response is going to create them further long term problems. Whilst I understand their emotional reaction, it’s not going to solve any problem for them, it’s going to exacerbate the problems
 
Hamas overplayed their hand, and as the "elected" government of Gaza are ultimately responsible for what their actions bring upon their people. It's not nice, it's not fair and it's not moral - it's just reality. Unfortunately that means sending soldiers into Gaza, and that means preparing the ground by bombing the place. The best we can hope for is Egypt opening the border and letting civilians flee there.
You do realize that one could say the exact same thing about Israel, right? The Israeli coalition overplayed its hand, and as the elected government of Israel is ultimately responsible for what its actions bring upon their people. It's not nice, it's not fair and it's not moral - it's just reality.
 
King of Jordan, as reported by CNN, promotes the two-state solution.

Yes we should all read this, published in 2011, to find out how to make it happen:

220px-Our_Last_Best_Chance.jpg

(sorry for the snark I just can never take this man seriously)
 
Ok leaving aside my comparison, my point is not every Palestinian is a member of Hamas. Israel’s response is going to create them further long term problems. Whilst I understand their emotional reaction, it’s not going to solve any problem for them, it’s going to exacerbate the problems

People keep saying that, but I don't think it's necessarily true, since they seem to be holding all the cards in this situation.
 
This entire situation is just tragic. Tragic for Israeli civilians, tragic for Palestinians and tragic for everyone who have been working om a two state solution. Gazans are trapped in a cage with no way out, just waiting to be killed. It is unconscionable.

It's so hard to see a solution. Even if Israel gave back the West Bank territories, and with billions of aid money for infrastructure and development, the challenges of building and maintaining a functioning Palestinian state are enormous.

Let's start there. Ukraine is going to have to be rebuilt at significant cost after the war ends (hopefully in their favor), we don't say "feck it, bend over for Russia"
 
@Ragnar123 was given justification for the blockage of Gaza and apartheid in West Bank by referencing the wars Israel has fought and their security. I gave an example of a country that started two world wars and were a free country 10 years afterwards.

You can argue about East Germany, but that was because it the Soviet Union, who pretty much everyone agrees were not correct in what they were doing there. Also, East Germans had much much more freedom than any Palestinians today.

Now tell me, did Germans suffer the same fate as the Palestinians have for the last 50 years? Do all wars result in an apartheid? Do you get why I made the comparison and any justification for what Israel have done as being a consequence of war is stupid?

I suppose the German comparison here would be East Prussia and Silesia - ethnic cleansing with gang rapes thrown in for good measure. Although, in contrast to the experience of the Palestinians, Germany started that conflict and the survivors got good homes to go to in what became West Germany.
 
I think the problem with this instance is the tone of that message was shockingly gleeful and she did it as the president of an entire student body at an elite university. Hard to feel sympathetic at that. Even if she didn't mean for it to come across like that it's just one example of many where the people cheering on Hamas's actions as heroic revolutionaries are thousands of miles away and appear to treat it as a role play.
I was talking about those just on the members lists of those pro-Palestine college groups, not her. It's different if she's student president posting confrontationally, rather than just a name on a list the uni would be ethically dubious in sharing.