Do you genuinely think that any group of people have fair claim to certain lands because thousands of years ago their possible ancestors lived there? Is that an actual opinion you hold?
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
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What do you suggest? They are dependent on Israel for basic human needs like water and electricity. They can't exist on their own and it's pretty clear that the cultural differences between Palestine and Israel are way too big so that the two nations can share borders. In order to be in this vicious cycle someone has to step down.
Obviously with every other conflict it's usually the country which is more developed that has the upper hand. Is it fair? No. But it's the world we live in.
@Ragnar123 Listen mate, you're a casual, you know nothing about this conflict. These laughable zionist arguments have been debunked time and time again, on every debate stage, including the caf. Stop wasting everybody's time with this "they were there 2000 years ago" bullshit.
Random crap probably nobody cares about:
- M109's deployed and firing. A2's out of storage (ominous perhaps, but likely just backup for the north in case of other actors) - Social media for some reason still often can't tell the difference between a tank and a Paladin. Not seen much Lynx but Nagmash buzzing around so who knows.
- Gaza hospitals indicate a likely 1:5 CCR. This is fecking bad, and so far out of normal operation you have to be worried if it continues or escalates.
- Hamas still trying to incite a general war from others, likely to paint them as combatants to an already jittery IDF where they'll be covered by inexperienced concripts who will make mistakes and kill them
- Tunnels still active; no problem for Hamas to move ammo etc into Gaza.
- M109's deployed and firing. A2's out of storage (ominous perhaps, but likely just backup for the north in case of other actors) - Social media for some reason still often can't tell the difference between a tank and a Paladin. Not seen much Lynx but Nagmash buzzing around so who knows.
- Gaza hospitals indicate a likely 1:5 CCR. This is fecking bad, and so far out of normal operation you have to be worried if it continues or escalates.
- Hamas still trying to incite a general war from others, likely to paint them as combatants to an already jittery IDF where they'll be covered by inexperienced concripts who will make mistakes and kill them
- Tunnels still active; no problem for Hamas to move ammo etc into Gaza.
You're the one going on about 'both sides living there'. I'm not denying a Jewish presence in the land, but in the same vein there was a Palestinian presence in the land, and it was under Christian, and Muslim Arab, and Ottoman rule for most of that 1,000 year period since Jews last controlled the land. So why should it be given to them? Why not the Christians? Or Ancient Egyptians? Or Mamluks? Or Turkish?
You came out with an idiotic claim and you're backtracking now.
Just so you know Arabs and Jews have historically lived together with no problems for Centuries. Read history.
I said in an earlier post - international intervention and Israel should be under sanctions for breaking international law and numerous Geneva conventions. There's a few other things too.
The issues we see in present day are a direct result of the decisions made in the 1940s.
I felt an uneasy feeling at the outpouring of fear coming from the well-insulated parts of the commetariat in London, (I'm sure legitimately), about how unsafe they felt and whether to send their kids to school, etc. Also sharing lots of unverified news stories to continue a narrative of being under attack. Just seemed, I don't know, off.
That is the part that I don't get. What is on the side of those tunnels? Wherever that is, authorities on that specific end of those tunnels need to do something to seal/cut them off.
I was responding to a poster who said Israel don't intentionally kill civilians by making the point that even if Israel accidentally kill civilians they've killed far more civilians than Hamas did.
Yeah I obviously misunderstood your post apologies.
No you just can't, or won't read. The red mist has turned you into a frothing bundle of rage and misinformation.
Hence why you come out with something totally unrelated when I ask you to stop being dishonest.
Egypt have cut out most of them to my knowledge - i think they built a huge underground wall or something to deal with it. But at the end of the day it's like whackamole, they are easier to build than destroy. Not something I know a huge amount about. More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_Strip_smuggling_tunnels
Gaza itself has an entire extensive tunnel network too, which is going to make things exceedingly dangerous for the IDF.
No one has excused it. Everyone you might call pro-Palestinian has said it was a terrorist act which murdered people. The difference, really, is that those same people will tell you the same about the IDF whereas those who just pick Hamas or whomever tend not to bother with that consistency.
Remember only few days ago posters were complaining about hamas savages and barbarians mistreating dead bodies....Well some of the videos I've just seen of what the IDF are doing with dead palestinians would make your stomach churn. Add that to videos of the use of white phosphorous and the bombing of the rafat checkpoint...perhaps those posters need to reasses who the barbarians are. But of course they won't.
The original founding of Israel consisted of an area where Jews owned most of the land (because they bought it in the years leading up to it). It made sense to give them this land as their own state, as they already dominated that area.
The fact that Arab countries did not accept that, started a war and lost it (and therefore more area) doesn't change the fact that the original size of Israel was quite reasonable. It would have been much better if the Arabs had made sure that everybody living in Israel got the same rights, no matter if he is a jew or not instead of launching this war. Everything that has happened since that event is just a consequence of that unnecessary war.
Take a look at the map please.
Similar beliefs to what? That there is no longer a discernible Palestine from which to make two states? It's far worse than that as it goes, in the WB, that's just an old picture.
The entire conflict is as it is because Israel has those beliefs and has acted upon them for decades without restraint (whatever about the Palestinians have similar beliefs, they have been sanctioned to death, have conceded, in Fatah's case, Israeli "existence" and receive nothing for it except continually decreasing land and zero prospect of change).
You have to be really delusional to believe that they are good guys who giving their all not to kill civilians while using area of effect weapons, pure gold
That's also maybe the reason they cut the electricity and water supply. They want to create conditions they can't live in because they know they can't hunt down all tunnels and hideouts. But what happens then with the civilian people, I don't want to imagine. If water becomes scarce, you know people with guns will take it for themselves.
Something, something false equivalency
The amount of blood/bodies vs their intention (which i dont believe one bit), they either use weapons blindfolded or they are simple bronze rank ( fps term ).
Keep reaching, lad.
Were Israel to exercise military restraint, would/could the Arab states, Qatar in particular, be compelled to give up the Hamas leadership who they are currently harbouring?
Would bringing these individuals to trial be enough to resolve the present situation in favour of the preservation of civilian lives?
Would bringing these individuals to trial be enough to resolve the present situation in favour of the preservation of civilian lives?
I don't believe this, hence the use of "accidentally".
It was aimed at the guy you quoted
You really have to go through the Ottoman and British census (censi?) from the 19th and 20th centuries to understand how few Jewish people (as a community) lived there prior to a wave of immigration which began before WW2 and only escalated after Balfour. Ask @2cents about it, probably not even the right thread for it because we're taking it back two centuries.
Ah my mistake
Yeah, the urinating video was enough for me.
Just from 2006 alone there have been over 20 military interventions with thousands casualties.
yes, exactly the bolded part and we are where we are. I'm all for Palestine to be internationally recognized, but that would mean borders to be drawn and both sides have to make a compromise.
Other nations need to follow suit - and currently most of them are generally ok with this, apart from USA, Israel and some others for obvious reasons.
Without official recognition it's hard for other countries to intervene.
No way Qatar would ever contemplate doing that. This is a nation that a couple of days ago that laid the blame for this situation solely at the hands of Israel. Also doubt the rest of the GCC would have both the interest and leverage to put pressure on Qatar doing so.
After reading about the feelings of the IDF soldiers, when they saw the massacred people, mothers, children bestially murdered in their shelters, I feel they will retaliate in Gaza on an unprecedented scale. In my opinion Hamas has brought the greatest misery to the Palestinian people in modern history.
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This will never end unless both sides agree to leave. They won't so it will never end.
Have you read about the Palestinian feelings per chance?
I mean, it's not like America, the British, the Russians, Chinese or anyone else get repercussions for committing war crimes is it?
I work in a safety role. We have had concerns raised with regards to safety for Jewish people and things like the local Jewish cemetery getting vandalised.
A few Muslims have stood with Jewish folk to show it's not something that is the fault of our neighbours and community. Which hasn't been reported.
We still got complaints of vandalism etc. Police investigated but have not pursued as racist type acts. A feeling of mountains being made of molehills by some sections to show a "we are under attack" narrative.
Whether all of it is true I don't know without checking each individual case. However one act of graffiti being reported as a result of this current situation was done a few days before. Being presented as it's because of what's happening.
Just to be clear this kind of shit happens with all people. I've personally investigated a university issue of racist graffiti. It was aimed at the black community. Found it it was a black kid who did it. Difference is it wasn't on every news station and radio show etc
Not Israel, or the IDF. It's Hamas who have brought misery to the Palestinians.
The mind boggles
Prior to the creation of the state of Israel, the Jewish groups there made up something like 18-20% of the population (from memory so might be a few % off). As of April 1st 1945, they owned between 5-6% of the land. They were then given 60% of the land in 1947.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...n-journalist-killed-by-israeli-bullet-un-says
When Israel military shoot journalists in the back is that accepting casualties or outright seeking them out?
They have the sea, they won't run out of drinking water.
They are taking siege tactic lessons from 2006, Iran, Iraq, and in a lesser way Ukraine. Remains to be seen if it will work; the differences are very substantial. The best comparison I can think of offhand (again, not a siege expert, but mainly reading from those that are) is the Battle of Hue in Vietnam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Huế It's a very old battle though, and the population itself was far less hostile, ISR was much better, and it was less population dense and only half the size. The Americans won, but it was so bloody and brutal that it turned popular support against the war. And this was in the days before social media and against a less entrenched opponent. More than 10,000 died in a month. We'll far exceed that here.
I don't think the Israeli public will turn against the war so fast, but it's going to lay bare some truths. The world could well turn against Israel before she's done.