Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

Fearless said:
Jumping to unfounded conclusions based on inconclusive 'evidence', typical ant-Israel behaviour .
Click to expand...
Yawn. Your country is a sham full of racist idiots who have one rule for themselves and a separate rule for Palestinians. Them absolving themselves of Abu Akleh’s murder is about as surprising as you posting YouTube links and deflecting.
 
The Corinthian said:
Yawn. Your country is a sham full of racist idiots who have one rule for themselves and a separate rule for Palestinians. Them absolving themselves of Abu Akleh’s murder is about as surprising as you posting YouTube links and deflecting.
Click to expand...

I don't believe he's Israeli (could be wrong of course)
 
The Corinthian said:
Yawn. Your country is a sham full of racist idiots who have one rule for themselves and a separate rule for Palestinians. Them absolving themselves of Abu Akleh’s murder is about as surprising as you posting YouTube links and deflecting.
Click to expand...

All countries have separate rules for non-citizens. It's called being a 'country'.
 
Fearless said:
All countries have separate rules for non-citizens. It's called being a 'country'.
Click to expand...
Sure - I wonder what would happen if the UK killed an American journalist in cold blood. Do you think they’d absolve themselves within a week?
 
Fearless said:
There'd be a joint investigation. Y'know, the thing that the Palestinians REFUSED.
Click to expand...
You’re a liar.

Palestine asks ICC to investigate Shireen Abu Akleh’s killing
Palestinian FM al-Maliki says Abu Akleh’s case, along with other Israeli violations, has been submitted to the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court.
 
lefty_jakobz said:
So its fine for israel (self investigate) to do it but only when the other side do it, it should be called out as bias?
Click to expand...

The IDF has admitted the possibility that it was their fault. But now we'll never know. A joint investigation should have been launched, but the PA refused.
Clearly the PR was far more valuable.
 
Fearless said:
The IDF has admitted the possibility that it was their fault. But now we'll never know. A joint investigation should have been launched, but the PA refused.
Clearly the PR was far more valuable.
Click to expand...
Where did the PA refuse?
 
The gall of Israelis is astounding.

1) the murderers wanting to conduct the murder instigation. Anything else seen as bias.
2) the murders happen on almost daily basis. This isn’t some one off event, it’s just more high-profile.
3) the backtracking from showing a random video of a Palestinian shooting a rifle as evidence Palestinians killed her.
4) the fact she was killed in front of journalists who reported what happened immediately is invalid because they must biased.
5) the refusal to take responsibility based on their opinion that their murderous army are “the most moral in the world”.
 
JERUSALEM — Thousands of Israeli nationalists, some of them chanting “Death to Arabs,” paraded through the heart of the main Palestinian thoroughfare in Jerusalem’s Old City on Sunday, in a show of force that risked setting off a new wave of violence in the tense city.



 
Fantastic piece in Haaretz. Pasted main bits below.

——

Why Israel’s 'Hasbara Queen' Failed Miserably to Explain Shireen Abu Akleh’s Killing

Hasbara envoy Noa Tishby is trying to frame mounting evidence of Israel’s culpability in Shireen Abu Akleh’s death as 'subconscious antisemitism.' Shabby, appalling and immoral aren't the only ways of describing her strategy.

After Al Jazeera journalist Shireen Abu Akleh was killed in Jenin this month, triggering harsh international criticism of the Israel Defense Forces, the Israeli government first sought to encourage doubt as to the identity of the shooter.

Several government social media accounts, including those of the Foreign Ministry and the Prime Minister’s Office, released a deceptively edited video showing a Palestinian gunman firing into an alleyway before cutting away to another Palestinian claiming that an Israeli soldier was killed. That no Israeli soldier had been killed that morning was taken to be proof that Abu Akleh had "likely" been killed by Palestinian gunfire.

Reporting by Haaretz soon drove a coach and horses through this hastily crafted video. Subsequent reporting by Bellingcat and new video evidencesuggests that it was in fact more likely an Israeli bullet that fatally struck Abu Akleh. Assertions of a likely Palestinian shooter have been almost completely shelved since then. The most recent CNN investigation suggested that the veteran reporter had been deliberately targeted by IDF snipers.

The announcement that the IDF will apparently not conduct a criminal investigation at all into Abu Akleh’s killing is just the latest sign that Israel’s first response is being abandoned. The claim that it was "likely" a Palestinian who killed Abu Akleh does not even appearin the letter Israel’s ambassador to the United States, Michael Herzog, issued following a congressional letter calling for an American investigation.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, in the public arena, it is even worse and more shortsighted than the initial shabby misinformation: It is to call virtually any discussion of Israeli culpability in this case antisemitic, because the focus on Israel itself represents a "double standard." On top of this being an appalling evasion of responsibility for a country claiming to have one of the "most moral" armies in the world, it is a strategy that will almost surely fail, if not backfire completely.

The international messenger for the above line has been Noa Tishby, an actress appointed just last month by Foreign Minister Yair Lapid as the first Special Envoy for Combating Antisemitism and the Delegitimization of Israel.
In a video posted to Twitter and TikTok, Tishby noted that 2,658 journalists were killed worldwide while working between 1990 and 2020. That those upset about Abu Akleh’s killing – which she firmly denied was "an execution or a targeted assassination" – can "only name the one" killed during an Israeli raid in the occupied territories is reflective of "subconscious antisemitism, anti-Jewish racism."
Click to expand...
In brief: If you’re angry about an apparent Israeli military killing of an identifiable journalist, you’re confirming your antisemitism.
Never mind, for a moment, that most of those intervening in this discussion can probably name at least several of the journalists killed in the last 30 years (I would prefer not to imagine Tishby’s reaction if they mentioned journalists who were killed by nondemocratic regimes unaccountable to the populations they control – an apt description of how Israel operates in Jenin, certainly).

What should alarm even those ordinarily sympathetic to Israel is the shocking flippancy behind this argument. It suggests that even if the very worst possible scenario is true, and an Israeli soldier knowingly and deliberately killed Shireen Abu Akleh, international condemnation — or even just attention! – would still be antisemitic. After all, journalists are deliberately killed by state actors with some degree of frequency. Why the "special" focus on Israel?

This peculiar notion of a double standard in which a lack of reactions in certain cases can be used to demonstrate prejudice in reactions to others leads nowhere constructive, which is probably the point: the logical result of Tishby’s argument is that anything more than "no comment" or less than impunity for Israel is at least subconsciously antisemitic, as no one besides those groups dedicated to keeping track of deaths of journalists can possibly meet the threshold she sets for fairness.
Click to expand...
https://archive.ph/23wao

I always thought the hasbara queen was @Fearless.
 
The Corinthian said:
Fantastic piece in Haaretz. Pasted main bits below.

——

Why Israel’s 'Hasbara Queen' Failed Miserably to Explain Shireen Abu Akleh’s Killing

Hasbara envoy Noa Tishby is trying to frame mounting evidence of Israel’s culpability in Shireen Abu Akleh’s death as 'subconscious antisemitism.' Shabby, appalling and immoral aren't the only ways of describing her strategy.





https://archive.ph/23wao

I always thought the hasbara queen was @Fearless.
Click to expand...

Strange how you use Israel's own media to prove your point. I'm struggling to find any mainstream Palestinian news outlet that has the same editorial freedom with which to question itself.
 
Fearless said:
Strange how you use Israel's own media to prove your point. I'm struggling to find any mainstream Palestinian news outlet that has the same editorial freedom with which to question itself.
Click to expand...
It could be because Israel regularly murders journalists -


Israel is regularly accused of targeting journalists
According to Reporters Without Borders, 35 journalists have been killed while working in Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories since 2000. The Israeli army has never acknowledged any responsibility.
 
Ali Dia said:
There’s no hope is there

Click to expand...


Funny you should mention 'Hope'...it's the title of the Israeli national anthem Hatikvah (hope), written in 1886

In the Jewish heart
A Jewish spirit still sings,
And the eyes look east
Toward Zion.
Our hope is not lost,
Our hope of two thousand years,
To be a free nation in our land,
In the land of Zion and Jerusalem

The Palestinian anthem is called Warrior, a lovely little ditty written in 1996.

Warrior, warrior, warrior
O my land, my fathers' abode
Warrior, warrior, warrior
O my folk, my folk of eternity
With bravery armed, the burning in my vendetta
Thirst in my blood for my land, my home
The wars I've fought, the mountains I've climbed
The impossible I've conquered, the frontiers crossed
With the will of winds, fire of weapons
And grit of my nation of struggles
(Palestine, my home, you are my fire)
Palestine, my home, the path of my triumph
Palestine, the land of brace and my strife.

By your oath under the shade of thy flag
By my land and nation, the pain that burns
As a warrior I shall live and remain as such
As a warrior I shall die, until my country returns

Warrior!
 
Ali Dia said:
There’s no hope is there

Click to expand...


And when one Palestinian crying boy throws a pebble and is shot dead on the spot the BBC and CNN will raise the question why are the Palestinians and Hamas so violent and confrontational. :(

Century old history repeating itself sadly.
 
Fearless said:
Strange how you use Israel's own media to prove your point. I'm struggling to find any mainstream Palestinian news outlet that has the same editorial freedom with which to question itself.
Click to expand...
Well Haaretz writers do recieve a lot of death threats daily you know. I'm not sure why but I don't have a problem with you anymore. You're a clown but it's not just that, I think you are perfectly aware of it and you're just playing the role now.
 
Fearless said:
Funny you should mention 'Hope'...it's the title of the Israeli national anthem Hatikvah (hope), written in 1886

In the Jewish heart
A Jewish spirit still sings,
And the eyes look east
Toward Zion.
Our hope is not lost,
Our hope of two thousand years,
To be a free nation in our land,
In the land of Zion and Jerusalem

The Palestinian anthem is called Warrior, a lovely little ditty written in 1996.

Warrior, warrior, warrior
O my land, my fathers' abode
Warrior, warrior, warrior
O my folk, my folk of eternity
With bravery armed, the burning in my vendetta
Thirst in my blood for my land, my home
The wars I've fought, the mountains I've climbed
The impossible I've conquered, the frontiers crossed
With the will of winds, fire of weapons
And grit of my nation of struggles
(Palestine, my home, you are my fire)
Palestine, my home, the path of my triumph
Palestine, the land of brace and my strife.

By your oath under the shade of thy flag
By my land and nation, the pain that burns
As a warrior I shall live and remain as such
As a warrior I shall die, until my country returns

Warrior!
Click to expand...
It's one of our anthems, and it wouldn't be if you didn't colonize the land, would it? It's a song calling for resistance and liberation.
You think Palestinians have a lust for blood, but that's just projection, and everyone with a set of eyes can see it.
 
Guys, guys, guys... c'mon. You gotta remember about what happened in 1678, then you'll understand why Israel is basically forced to behave like this in 2022.
 
IhabX7 said:
It's one of our anthems, and it wouldn't be if you didn't colonize the land, would it? It's a song calling for resistance and liberation.
You think Palestinians have a lust for blood, but that's just projection, and everyone with a set of eyes can see it.
Click to expand...

The whole region is arguably one 'colonisation' after another - including your side. Up until 1967, your leadership, the PLO, was more than happy to relinquish ANY claim to the West Bank and Gaza which kind of undoes the liberation stuff by gladly conferring it all to Jordan.

Thats not to say you're wrong in seeking statehood, but that cannot be in denial or in place of the historical and ancestral rights of your neighbours.

Btw, nice to communicate, even if you think I'm a clown.
 
Fearless said:
The whole region is arguably one 'colonisation' after another - including your side. Up until 1967, your leadership, the PLO, was more than happy to relinquish ANY claim to the West Bank and Gaza which kind of undoes the liberation stuff by gladly conferring it all to Jordan.

Thats not to say you're wrong in seeking statehood, but that cannot be in denial or in place of the historical and ancestral rights of your neighbours.

Btw, nice to communicate, even if you think I'm a clown.
Click to expand...

is that irony hasbara style?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.