Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
You murder kids journalists women and old people, and you still try to defend the apartheid state.
You get caught up in lie after lie, yet you still think you are the moral authority on the Middle East.
You literally have to pay people to take your side whereas the Palestinian supporters dont ask for a thing yet their supporters out weigh yours by thousands as can be seen in countries all over the World after you murdered a journalist and thought you could hide it by saying she was caught up in a cross fire, those lies only work on those that think this whole thing is between two equal sides and as you know it is anything but.
You keep posting bullshit videos to try and justify the horrors the apartheid state cause on a daily basis in the land they stole (and continue to steal) and occupy to this day.
As soon as someone posts something that might be construed to supporting the illegal occupation you show up and start replying to people as if you have suddenly gotten ‘backup’ like a school boy bully that you think you are. You are a joke.
Thanks. By the way, what exactly is your motivation? Are you a Palestinian?
the "whatabout" accusers will jump right at you for pointing out hypocrisy.
Supporting human rights and ending injustice needs a motivation?
I wasn't asking you.
I don't really see your point. Is Germany perhaps especially sensitive when it comes to antisemitism: I assume that is the case and for good reason.
The German government doesn't have the power to ban other parties.
And it seems that you're at the same time complaining about islamophobia and acting like chanting "dirty jews" and showing up to synagogues to protest the deeds of the state of Israel isn't really a big deal. You're losing me there.
I know. I’m asking you.
This makes me laugh. The police reasoning here is the exact same that has been used in so many Gulf “autocratic regimes” while dealing with illegal protests (moreover, rules that were legislated by fully elected, independent parliaments as opposed to the police going to the judiciary of their own accord) and yet Western commentators couldn’t wait to jump on their high horse screaming about human rights.
Here, when Germany does it, it’s only “half the truth”, it’s reasonable, understandable, or whatever else nonsense word used to defend them. Why? Well they surely had a good reason. Because they’re European and western. They’re democratic and liberal. Except when they’re not.
I expect hypocrisy from Western governments. What’s tragic however, is how deep the subconscious prejudice is in their populations, it’s almost beyond help. My only hope is that when confronted, it leads to someone really thinking about it, recognising their subconscious biases and learning from it going forward. Identifying as liberal, or leaning left in your domestic politics, simply isn’t enough I’m afraid.
This, I gave up explaining long time ago. I just try to point out obvious hypocrisy from time to time.
Exactly, I said the same thing before as well that I give Germans a bit more leeway in this regard. But then admit it and say you have different standards for anti-Semitism than you do for Islamopobia. There's nothing wrong in admitting it rather than defending right wing party rallies in the process. I understand Germans hesitancy towards criticizing Israel, but then just say it and don't hide behind excuses to defend islamopobia.
I said at the start to arrest people who chant anti-Semitic slogans and attack synagogues, no justification for that. But then I also said that arrest those who do the same deeds against Muslims and don't hide behind the thin veil of 'free speech' because we know there are double standards at play.
Would it make a difference if I was?
Watching the definition of apartheid taking place in a country which pretends to be some moral democracy, the persecution of a populace (most of whom have links back before the state was created), watching kids murdered by israeli missiles whilst playing on a beach (infront of the Worlds press no less), kids routinely jailed for throwing stones, watching worshippers beaten inside the Mosque, killing of journalist, watching isreal murder foreigners trying to shield Palestinian kids/protect innocents, watching almost daily the extra judicial killings of people the wrong colour at checkpoints and then seeing the soldier throw a knife after the fact to try justify the murder, watching homes being demolished so ILLEGAL settlers can then occupy the land…unfortunately this is just a few of the incidences that have taken place in the last 10-15 years.
You dont even see the irony of what happened to all those Jewish people by an evil murderous bastard as the World sat and looked on, too late to save them, that same shit is happening to Palestinians today (checkpoints, Gaza the Worlds largest open air prison, different roads for different people, different courts for different people, refusal of treatment to injured and unwell-delays at checkpoints causing ailments to get worse) is any of this how a normal decent country operates?
A country who has broken 65+ international laws, yet are never held to the same standards as others? Its not anti semitism to ask isreal to be held to the same judgement as the rest of the World is it?
You think it’s bad now, just wait until the World Cup comes around. This place is gonna be a shitshow.
The Vatican's representative in Jerusalem has accused Israel of "brutally violating" a decades-old agreement to uphold religious freedom.
It follows Friday's attack by Israeli police on the funeral of Palestinian-American journalist Shireen Abu Aqla.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-61463886.amp
It follows Friday's attack by Israeli police on the funeral of Palestinian-American journalist Shireen Abu Aqla.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-61463886.amp
Instead of dismantling all of your points above, lets just put it down to the failure of Arab states to wipe Israel off the map and the subsequent jihad against the only Jewish state in the region. Everything else springs from that.
I mean, you literally reduce every argument to Arabs wanting to kill Jews because it’s the only
scenario in your head that can justify Israel’s existence in its current iteration.
But of course, your mind exists in a fantasy realm and has no basis in reality.
The reality is that the ‘only Jewish state in the region’ is a racist, apartheid state which is brutalising Palestinians, committing ethnic cleansing and stealing land.
The mental gymnastics these people perform are hilarious.
You can keep on pretending its about 'land' all you want but it's bollox.
Why aren't you demanding Jordan becomes the Palestinian state? After all, it got 80% of Palestine but that doesn't seen to figure in your calculations.
Because the Palestinians already have a Palestinian state that’s been stolen.
Pro-Israel lobbying group Aipac secretly pouring millions into defeating progressive Democrats
American Israel Public Affairs Committee has disguised its efforts to undermine pro-Palestinian candidates
The US’s most powerful pro-Israel lobby group is pouring millions of dollars into influencing Democratic congressional primary races to counter growing support for the Palestinian cause within the party, including elections today in Pennsylvania and North Carolina.
The American Israel Public Affairs Committee’s money is focused on blocking female candidates who, if elected, are likely to align with “the squad” of progressive members of congress who have been critical of Israel.
But it is funneled through a group, the United Democracy Project (UDP), that avoids mention of its creation by Aipac and seeks to decide elections by funding campaign messages about issues other than Israel.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/17/pro-israel-lobby-defeat-democrats-palestinians-2022
American Israel Public Affairs Committee has disguised its efforts to undermine pro-Palestinian candidates
The US’s most powerful pro-Israel lobby group is pouring millions of dollars into influencing Democratic congressional primary races to counter growing support for the Palestinian cause within the party, including elections today in Pennsylvania and North Carolina.
The American Israel Public Affairs Committee’s money is focused on blocking female candidates who, if elected, are likely to align with “the squad” of progressive members of congress who have been critical of Israel.
But it is funneled through a group, the United Democracy Project (UDP), that avoids mention of its creation by Aipac and seeks to decide elections by funding campaign messages about issues other than Israel.
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/may/17/pro-israel-lobby-defeat-democrats-palestinians-2022
You've been parroting this for years.
The Jordanians and Palestinian people are generally in concert. Unlike Israel, Jordan supports Palestinian aspirations for a state within the 1967 boundaries. The fear is, just as you've been espousing for years the Israeli hardline government would one day declare that a Palestinian state already exists in Jordan and thereby pushing more Palestinians to Jordan and stealing more land.
Last edited:
You can carry on pretending this to be about security and religion. Throughout history, Jews have mostly been more secure living with Arabs than in Europe and other places. The demographics and the persecution videos I know you'll come up with of Jews decreasing in Arab lands are mostly due to wanting a better quality of life in Europe and the USA. You will similarly find millions of Arabs have left the Middle East for exact same reasons which are not persecution related.
Typical zionist troll uses the same go to “Arabs trying to wipe us off the map” so they can justify brutalising a population over and over again.
Do you show the same hatred or contempt to the Europeans who literally tried (but thankfully didn't) to wipe the Jewish people off the face of the planet?
Evil bastards who tried use a ‘Final Solution’ policy to wipe Jews out and now another evil faction ‘the zionists’ are trying their own ‘Final Solution’ on the Palestinians.
Seems history can only teach those that want to learn. Shame israel tries to rewrite history to fit its own bigoted narrative.
Hundreds of thousands of Jordanians have moved or been pushed to Jordan and not particularly by choice. To be fair, they have been given citizenship and voting rights and many are members of Parliament in Amman. Israel is not even willing to give the rightful owners their land back, all the time stealing and running an apartheid state whilst claiming to be a democracy. But, this is all a 10-year-old child would know. I'm not sure why @Fearless would even come up with Jordan as a solution.
With the exception of the Jews of Algeria, who mostly ended up in France as a result of the war of independence there, the vast majority of Mizrahim ended up in Israel, not Europe and the USA. And while the circumstances of their departure differed from case to case, in many instances it was a direct result of escalating discrimination and persecution.
There is really no need to whitewash this history in the service of the Palestinian cause.
There are countless stories in history of Muslim and Jews working, living, and prospering side by side.
If anything this idea that Arabs want to kill the Jews is - well whatever the opposite of whitewashing is - and is way further from the truth than what @Sultan has said.
You will also find a large number of Jews left Arab lands when they were colonised and ruled by the Europeans. It's easy for historians and apologists siding with Israel to forget and delete the last 100 years of European atrocities to justify the horrific situation in Palestine.
Nice to hear from you Sultan (I knew you couldn't resist forever and kindest regards)
OK - it's the 'rightful owners' and the 'their land' bit that we're having issues with.
As pointed out earlier to other posters who have some sort of difficulty in understanding the nuance of my point, you have to ask yourself why the PLO up until 1967 were quite happy to not make any claim on Gaza and the WB. And ask yourself why they have since. Clearly, it seems it's only 'their land' when the wrong sort of person is in it, not his or her 'Palestinianism'.
PLO charter 1964:
Article 24. This Organization does not exercise any regional sovereignty over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, on the Gaza Strip or the Himmah Area. Its activities will be on the national popular level in the liberational, organizational, political and financial fields.
I was responding specifically to the idea that “most” Jews left the Arab countries to the West for economic reasons. As for the broader history of Muslim-Jewish relations, I view it as very mixed - a better record than pre-modern Europe for sure, but nothing to aspire to recreate. Without going over old ground, I’d basically agree with Litvak in this video:
I’ve no doubt some did. I can also think of the case of Egypt, where many Jews moved to after the British occupation. In any case, you claimed “most” (subsequently down-graded to “a large number of”) Jews left Arab lands for Europe and America, for economic reasons. What is your source for this claim?
Why doesn't Poland become the new Ukraine and let Russia have the land?
Its simple...chanting death to Jews = bad. Killing Palestinians = not bad.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/rare-100-banknote-found-charity-26981744
Thought id leave this in here for you guys
Edit: According to some this couldn't be real as there was no Palestine before israel….
Thought id leave this in here for you guys
Edit: According to some this couldn't be real as there was no Palestine before israel….
Of course it's real, as was a geographical region (first named by the Romans to insults the Jews by reminding them of the Philistines) as Palestine. But it was never a country. Both the Jews and Muslims were referred to as Palestinians back then, hence the hebrew and arabic on the money .
Nah it was a country. Its now occupied land as stolen
You'd have a case if Al Asqa was built under the Temple Mount.
Yeah not true.
The ancient Greeks also referred to the area as palestania (sp). About 5k years before christ.
http://ieg-ego.eu/en/threads/europe-on-the-road/jewish-migration
The normalisation thesis has gained influence since the 1960s – among representatives of general Jewish history as well as among those who study recent Jewish history. The migrations of Jews and their Christian and Muslim neighbours were in fact often closely intertwined and economic factors were usually decisive in Jewish migrations. However, this only holds true until the first half of the 20th century. The expulsions during and after the First World War in Eastern Europe and especially the systematic "resettlement" and annihilation policies of the Nazis were specifically directed against Jews, economic motives were secondary at most. Nevertheless, it is true to say that the discussion on the motives of Jewish migrants, regardless of the respective historiographic viewpoint, has effected a more nuanced assessment of Jewish migration processes and a better consideration of the respective context.
Shalom Aleichem
May God give us all the understanding, and strength to see the truth and seek justice for our fellow human beings regardless of our religious, and cultural affiliations with any country or its people. I pray God keeps us firm on the path of guidance and do not allow us to deviate from it.
That article is focused on Europe, it doesn’t discuss the condition of Mizrahi Jews except towards the very end which states:
“In Palestine, the British attempted to prevent immigration. The foundation of the State of Israel on 14 May 1948 changed this situation. However, most countries of the Middle East declared Jews an undesirable minority, partially already during the Israeli War of Independence. As a result, the centuries-old settlement centres in North Africa and the Eastern Mediterranean disappeared from the map within a few months. Jewish communities in Damascus, Bagdad and Yemen, which were now subject to rapid and sometimes violent dissolution, could even be traced back to the pre-Christian era.”
I actually think that is an overstatement/simplification of what happened. But in any case, there is nothing in the article to support the claim that most Mizrahim went to Europe and America for economic reasons. The record is very clear regarding where most of them ended up, to the extent that it is believed that a majority of Israeli Jews today have at least a partial Mizrahi heritage (in contrast to American Jews who are overwhelmingly Ashkenazi with a heritage traceable to Central and Eastern Europe). The exact/immediate reasons for their departure from the Arab lands is more varied. It is true that economic factors played a role in certain contexts, as did ideological impulses (the draw of Zionism). But the growth of anti-Jewish hostility in Arab countries in the interwar and immediate post-war years, combined with the ready availability of a state willing to accept them, was the probably the most important factor.
(As an aside, I struggle to see how the account given in the article supports the ‘normalization thesis’ - perhaps I’m missing something but apart from the 19th/early twentieth centuries, it seems that most of the mass Jewish migration discussed was indeed in response to persecution and/or the threat of violence).