The same energy that is going Russia's way needs to go to Israel.
Boycott all of their products...complain to stores that stock them too.
Boycott all of their products...complain to stores that stock them too.
Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less
- Thread starter esmufc07
- Start date
That's obviously not going to happen. Instead of dead end campaigns by powerless outsiders, perhaps the two sides should moderate their behavior and begin negotiating instead.
Apartheid doesn't work like that. There's only one side. And prisoners/slaves. But you knew that.
Edit: instead of siding with Ukraine and causing an international crisis maybe both sides should sit down and talk. See I can make bullshit statements too.
Lasting and meaningful change will require an agreement by both sides, which involves creating the conditions for negotiations. Do you disagree ?
The onus is on the occupiers to treat the Palestinians in accordance to International Law, which they have broken 70+ times. Putin the arsehole broke how many before the World came out and sanctioned him, wheres the sanctions for the only apartheid state in the world? Or does this not apply when dealing with brown people?
All well and good. However the issue is one side doesn't want peace.
The only time peace looked on the cards, the accords between Arafat and Perez, you got Israel building up Hamas.
International law generally only works when it’s enforceable. Therefore the Israelis are not incentivized to change when the US supports them. The only viable path forward is for both Israelis and Palestinians to moderate and negotiate, which is something all outsiders interested in a constructive solution should fully support.
Yes I agree with you on that.
The outsiders need to moderate, but until the US/Western governments see both sides as equal, is that ever likely to happen?
So fecking disgusting.
Major clashes at/inside Al-Aqsa this morning.
Wow, why did no one consider that?
Do you want me to help you draft a letter to Putin asking if he’s considered negotiating? Maybe we can write to the Saudis next?
Captain America strikes again
I’d say he’s more like Groot in the sense he just parrots the same brainless statement again and again.
Apartheid: ‘both sides should negotiate’
No right of return: ‘both sides should negotiate’
Gaza bombed: ‘both sides should negotiate’
So you're against both sides negotiating a settlement to this ? Interesting.
Oh, he's ok with a settlement. As long as it agrees that Israel should be dismantled.
Cue picture of IDF atrocity...
All conflicts have different actors and power dynamics, which makes comparing them a bit problematic.
Especially when Ukraine is in the same place Israel was in when the surrounding Russian backed Arab Armies tried to invade it, Putin style.
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Without getting into the events of the last month, it seems this morning’s clashes are directly a result of this:
All week a few Jewish fanatics have been loudly proclaiming their intent to sacrifice a sheep/goat on the Temple Mount today. Hamas took notice and sent out calls to defend Al-Aqsa against the provocation. Palestinian youths gathered in the mosque with rocks and fireworks very early this morning, and at some point Israeli authorities decided to intervene in their usual fashion.
All week a few Jewish fanatics have been loudly proclaiming their intent to sacrifice a sheep/goat on the Temple Mount today. Hamas took notice and sent out calls to defend Al-Aqsa against the provocation. Palestinian youths gathered in the mosque with rocks and fireworks very early this morning, and at some point Israeli authorities decided to intervene in their usual fashion.
No, I just don’t live in a fantasy world. Why do you think the US sanctioned Russia rather than asking them to negotiate?
Why do you think they sanctioned South Africa rather than asking them to negotiate?
You say you don't live in a fantasy world, but do you think a decade of flotillas, stones, rockets, and failed BDS campaigns have been realistic policy choices that have moved the needle for the Palestinian side ? I ask because we've been doing these threads for well over a decade and yet nothing has changed.
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Why do you think the US sanctioned Russia rather than asking them to negotiate?
Why do you think they sanctioned South Africa rather than asking them to negotiate?
The Ukraine situation isn't applicable to the topic we're discussing in this thread given that the US (along with much of the developed world) currently view Hamas as a terrorist organization. That includes the European Union as well. Therefore this idea that Israel are going to be sanctioned in any meaningful way that would resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is pure fantasy. You make progress by moderating and bringing the debate back to the center, at which point you create the conditions for progress.
You would know all about settlements.
I thought with it being Good Friday your Hasbara paymasters would have given you a day off…do you get paid double for posting on a holiday?
Interactive image of the Temple Mount/Haram al-Sharif for anyone interested - https://madainproject.com/interactive_map_of_the_temple_mount/
You may be on to something.
Apartheid South Africa ended when there were no campaigns and the two sides moderated their own behavior. Same with Russia and Ukraine. Same with Nazis and the jews. It's obviously it's not going to happen so they should just handle it themselves like proper adults. We have the same problem with policing. Trying to stop murderers and rapists by interfering when the two parties need to resolve the issues themselves.
On a serious note I get second hand embarrassment when closet pro Israel/sympathizers suddenly propose solutions by "path of least resistance".
Mandela should have listened to your advice as well then, being on a terror list and all.
Trouble is, you're not offering a viable solution, just more of the same that continues what we have in the present. Anyone who wants a solution that works for both sides, should be in favor of negotiating. This is especially true for the Palestinian side since they are the significantly weaker party in the power dynamic with the Israelis.
Except that using the race card and shouting apartheid every few words won't resolve anything. Its little more than a prescription for continuing the status quo.
Shouting terrorism constantly is a tool for so-called developed nations' to suppress and justify injustices against the helpless.
The race card and apartheid is as real as day and night. Any decent human being should be accepting the status quo.
And yet its developed nations that hold all the cards since the likes of the US and the main players in brokering solutions. Therefore having a terrorist organization (according to the US and EU) as the central player in peace talks is obviously not going to go very far.
Yes, I agree. Power mostly trumps justice and fairness. However, it should never be the case in a fair world. Oh well.
I agree Hamas is problematic in a negotiation context, as is IJ or any such group. But look at Fatah. Shortchanged for following the peace process and official lines for twenty odd years. This isn't happening in Gaza, either, but in the WB. Why not negotiate with Fatah now and leave Gaza/Hamas for a later date? Sure, Hamas have a presence in the WB, but they aren't the ruling party there (the elections are another story/scandal). But Abbas is viewed as sellout in Palestinian circles because he has been going about it the "right" way and this is what he gets:
https://en.mercopress.com/2011/09/2...n-security-council-on-palestine-un-membership
Edit: ironically, this is the wrong link. It's from 2011, but it's so similar to the story that appeared in the press recently that you can barely tell the difference!
US to veto his request for full Palestinian statehood at the UN. Negotiations do need to happen but the US has been the broker in that situation for three decades now and has done nothing of substance for at least two decades.
I'll have to re-source the story I was looking for, about Abbas on the UN, but as of today:
https://english.aawsat.com/home/art...e-strategic-decisions-wake-israeli-aggression
Fatah are moving away from the "right" way of doing things because they've lost a lot of support among their base and it hasn't got them anything. If they look at the Ukrainian situation, and the world telling everyone how freedom fighters have no limit to what they can do/should do to gain control of their state, then why would they continue with the UN route?
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Al aqsa getting attacked during Ramadan is a tradition like breaking fast with dates.
I wonder if Raoul has ever banned/punished anyone on the caf for misbehaving towards another member or he normally asks them to negotiate something they're both happy with so we can have peace on the caf.
Why must we argue what is viable and not what is right? That's not how I live my life and not how most people do.
Regardless, my whole point is you are asking for a victim and an oppressor to "negotiate" between themselves. Same as Russia and Ukraine, Russia holds all the cards with military might and power. Why on earth would the world let them "negotiate" with ukraine?