There is significant overlap between anti-Zionism and antisemitism, the same way there is an overlap between Islamophobia and racism against Arabs and South Asians. I can't help you further if you don't understand this basic premise.
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There is significant overlap between anti-Zionism and antisemitism, the same way there is an overlap between Islamophobia and racism against Arabs and South Asians. I can't help you further if you don't understand this basic premise.
To be fair, this is a thread focusing on the Israeli and Palestinian conflict.
I do appreciate your wider point though, and there are certainly countries whose reactions to the plight of the Palestinians are many times greater to other peoples in desperate situations.
It only draws complaints by the Palestinian supporters because it completely undermines their moral authority and position on Israel.
They are now - and thank you!
Exactly.
I don't if you are talking about the Caf, but online Anti-semitism ramped up. #Hitlerwasright was trending on Twitter. I otherwise never report tweets, but I did report all the "Bring back Adolf Hitler" tweets.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/05/16/the-lefts-shameful-silence-on-anti-semitism/
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-norfolk-57121951
You've mentioned Yemen twice in six years. Both times are in this thread. What's your point again?Still a crisis yet no bump since 2019. Thanks for still proving my point.
It's called whataboutery and it's seeking to derail a specific conversation by referring to something that's irrelevant to the topic at hand.
I respect you for at least trying but the first link is propaganda. It's qualitative rhetoric. I'm asking for quantative sociological proof. Also, its author wrote this https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/05/12/why-wont-israelis-let-themselves-be-killed/ (Why won't Israelis let Themselves Be Killed?) a few days before. He makes a living by criticising the "woke" left. His opinion is worthless as proof.
Israel is definitely a terrorist state and it is an ugly conflict, as you said.
Is this propaganda?
Mehdi Hasan: Muslim Anti-Semitism is Community's 'Dirty Secret'
Anti-Semitism in Britain's Muslim community is so frequent it has become "routine and commonplace", according to a leading Muslim journalist.
Mehdi Hasan, political editor of the Huffington Post UK, described how anti-Jewish sentiment in Muslim society is now seen in both young and old and is no longer a "hallmark of first-generation immigrants".
"Growing up, I always assumed that this obsession with "the Jews" was a hallmark of the "first-generation" immigrants from the subcontinent. In recent years, I've been depressed to discover that there are plenty of "second-generation" Muslim youths, born and bred in multiracial Britain, who have drunk the anti-Semitic Kool-Aid. I'm often attacked by them for working in the 'Jewish owned media'".
Writing in the New Statesman, Hasan used the example of former Labour peer Lord Ahmed, who was recently suspended from the party for saying Jews "who own newspapers and TV channels" were responsible for his conviction and jail sentence after he was involved in a fatal car crash.
Ahmed reportedly made the comments in Pakistan during an Urdu-language broadcast, claimed the Sunday Times.
He was recorded as saying: "My case became more critical because I went to Gaza to support Palestinians. My Jewish friends who own newspapers and TV channels opposed this."
Hasan wrote that Ahmed was the latest in the line of "mild-mannered and well-integrated British Muslims who nevertheless harbour deeply anti-Semitic views".
He added: "It pains me to have to admit this but anti-Semitism isn't just tolerated in some sections of the British Muslim community; it's routine and commonplace. Any Muslims reading this article - if they are honest with themselves - will know instantly what I am referring to. It's our dirty little secret. You could call it the banality of Muslim anti-Semitism.
"The truth is that the virus of anti-Semitism has infected members of the British Muslim community, both young and old.
"It is sheer hypocrisy for Muslims to complain of Islamophobia in every nook and cranny of British public life, to denounce the newspapers for running Muslim-baiting headlines, and yet ignore the rampant anti-Semitism in our own backyard. We cannot credibly fight Islamophobia while making excuses for Judaeophobia."
Hasan added that he did not write the article to "assist the English Defence League in its relentless campaign to demonise all Muslims" but felt it was time for a Muslim to say "we do have a 'Jewish problem'."
"There is no point pretending otherwise," he concluded.
If you can't understand that there is a difference between criticizing Zionism and anti-Semitism, there is not point having a discussion. This is risible.
If you have anything to back your initial claim, I'll be waiting. Meanwhile, you're free to type "I'm off" for the umpteenth time, before coming back to regurgitate the same mistake.
What on earth does that have to do with this thread? You're free to enter that thread to discuss it there.
This is about the Israeli-Palestian conflict and you seem wound up that many are criticizing Israel for its terrorism.
Well which news source would you go to? Or what would you plot into your search engine?
No, that's not it at all.
It's a purposely deflective tactic, from surprise surprise, Israel/Zionist supporters to take attention away from their own war crimes, and apartheid state.
The issue in Yemen is deplorable, but it doesn't make sense to bring that up when discussing Israeli crimes.
And they seem hell bent on deflecting, rather than joining the rest of the world to denounce what should be easy to denounce - terrorism.
After the 2019 figures from the Community Security Trust (CST) revealed a record high of 1,805 antisemitic incidents in the UK for the year, the latest report shows that this was far from an outlier. The 2020 number of 1,668 is the third-highest recorded and, as summarised by the government’s Independent Adviser on Antisemitism, Lord Mann: "Whilst the CST figures show a decrease in antisemitic hate incidents in 2020, these figures are worryingly still the third-highest ever recorded by CST. It is clear that Covid-19 has led to a rise in antisemitic conspiracy theories and the use of dangerous alternative media platforms. Whilst it is partly to do with better reporting and knowledge, it is worrying that this trend isn't coming down".
Regarding the nature of the incidents, CST reports that there were 100 cases of assault/extreme violence, 72 of damage and desecration of Jewish property, 1,399 reports of abusive behaviour (including verbal abuse, antisemitic graffiti, antisemitic abuse via social media and one-off hate mail), 85 direct antisemitic threats, and 12 cases of mass-mailed antisemitic leaflets or emails.
Commenting on the report, National Policing Lead for Hate Crime, Deputy Chief Constable Mark Hamilton said: "We concentrate on the unacceptably high numbers of antisemitic incidents in comparison with other states, but I believe that this disparity is because of improved partnerships and recording practices and I genuinely believe that the United Kingdom is amongst the safest places in the world for Jewish citizens. However, one crime is too many and everyone has a right to live their lives free from targeted abuse. I would encourage all victims of hate to report crimes, either to the police or to the CST."
https://www.statista.com/chart/16928/antisemitic-incidents-in-the-uk-annual/
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People may wish to draw a distinction between anti-Semetic rhetoric and anti-Semetic incidences, but there certainly is strong evidence that anti-Semitism is growing in the UK.
After the 2019 figures from the Community Security Trust (CST) revealed a record high of 1,805 antisemitic incidents in the UK for the year, the latest report shows that this was far from an outlier. The 2020 number of 1,668 is the third-highest recorded and, as summarised by the government’s Independent Adviser on Antisemitism, Lord Mann: "Whilst the CST figures show a decrease in antisemitic hate incidents in 2020, these figures are worryingly still the third-highest ever recorded by CST. It is clear that Covid-19 has led to a rise in antisemitic conspiracy theories and the use of dangerous alternative media platforms. Whilst it is partly to do with better reporting and knowledge, it is worrying that this trend isn't coming down".
Regarding the nature of the incidents, CST reports that there were 100 cases of assault/extreme violence, 72 of damage and desecration of Jewish property, 1,399 reports of abusive behaviour (including verbal abuse, antisemitic graffiti, antisemitic abuse via social media and one-off hate mail), 85 direct antisemitic threats, and 12 cases of mass-mailed antisemitic leaflets or emails.
Commenting on the report, National Policing Lead for Hate Crime, Deputy Chief Constable Mark Hamilton said: "We concentrate on the unacceptably high numbers of antisemitic incidents in comparison with other states, but I believe that this disparity is because of improved partnerships and recording practices and I genuinely believe that the United Kingdom is amongst the safest places in the world for Jewish citizens. However, one crime is too many and everyone has a right to live their lives free from targeted abuse. I would encourage all victims of hate to report crimes, either to the police or to the CST."
https://www.statista.com/chart/16928/antisemitic-incidents-in-the-uk-annual/
----------------------------------
People may wish to draw a distinction between anti-Semetic rhetoric and anti-Semetic incidences, but there certainly is strong evidence that anti-Semetism is growing in the UK.
Zionist propaganda.
That American settler is being rightfully destroyed online at the moment - he is the perfect image of the occupation. The world is waking up finally
I'm off. Happy?
Nor do the people who deflect by referring to it remotely care about the plight of the Yemenis. Likewise for the Uighurs in China. I'm not seeing why any condemnation aimed towards Israel also has to be caveated with similar outrage as to what's happening in Yemen. For starters you can't make the assumption people don't care, nor can you even assume they know about the severity of the human catastrophe there considering the tiny media traffic it gets.
It's the worst case of deflection you could shamelessly indulge in.
There's anti semetism and there's rampant Islamophobia. Neither has anything to do with the discussion.
How is critism of Israel (a terrorist state) anti semetism?
This. 100%
A third of British people were found by the ECHR to have a perception that anti-Semitism had risen. The findings were that the increase was in fact 0.3%. That's an enormous discrepancy. The ECHR report is credible because it was non-partisan and displeased boyh Corbyn and Starmer's respective groupings. Neither side was pleased by it.
It's very difficult but you need to find detailed, well respected, outlets which conduct periodic research into attitude shifts amongst populations over very long periods of time. Frosty's is an OK link but only details with a rise in reports which by itself isn't good enough.
Don't dare rattle on about death tolls then. Ignorance is not a defence.
Yes because my entire existence in life is on the redcafe.
Disgusting.
No, it's just a fair question. Why does it generate so much publicity?
You can easily argue that Israel has been in constant war mode since 19...whatever, and a peace agreement has not been reached yet.
In history there are plenty of examples of countries warring for more than 100 years, so we might hear about slayed children again in 20, 30 and so on years - who knows?
It’s because some in the world find it difficult to completely side with Palestinian and Hamas (a terrorist organization) and believe only they have the moral high ground, when the Muslim world can’t stop Sunnis and Shias from murdering eachother. It’s ok, you have the hate for Israel that at least unites you, so progress.
The incidents in the article aren't made up. It's highly predictable that anti-semitism spikes during these escalations because there are some anti-zionists/israel who clearly arent anti-semites, but it's utterly naive if you havn't noticed that some of them are even if it's a minority.
https://nationalpost.com/opinion/ahmed-shah-muslim-world-must-recognize-its-hypocrisy-over-israel
Dr. Shah providing some inconvenient truths...will be a hard read for some of you.
Dr. Shah providing some inconvenient truths...will be a hard read for some of you.
This is a slightly ridiculous statement. In the last few weeks, have you been around many Jewish people? Seen many Jewish people? Do you have any Jewish people in your circles? How can you possibly say with such confidence that anti-semitism hasn't risen?
Like I said, if you don't think there is an overlap between anti-Zionism and antisemitism, then it's impossible to have a constructive discussion on this topic.
Of course you're well within your rights to criticise Israel and Zionism, I'd be the first to say that what the Israeli government is doing right now with Gaza and settler issue is disgusting and deserves strong condemnation, but there is indeed a proverbial line where legitimate criticism veers into the Jewish consensus definition on antisemitism, regardless of political affiliation. Nazi comparisons is a good case in point and evidence of this is plenty in the ADL link I posted.
The world has sided with Palestine against Israel because the world is against terrorism and Israeli is a terrorist state.
What else?
And as I pointed out criticism of Israel does not equate to anti semitism.
I don't mean to trivialise this as its indeed a shocking and worrying trend, but the depressing reality is that hate crime incidents have been steadily going up for several ethnic groups in the country. Islamophobic incidents has seen a huge increase over the years (not helped by the sentiments of the Prime Minister who's words singlehandedly led to a 375% increase in islamophobic incidents and has yet to apologise for them).
After the 2019 figures from the Community Security Trust (CST) revealed a record high of 1,805 antisemitic incidents in the UK for the year, the latest report shows that this was far from an outlier. The 2020 number of 1,668 is the third-highest recorded and, as summarised by the government’s Independent Adviser on Antisemitism, Lord Mann: "Whilst the CST figures show a decrease in antisemitic hate incidents in 2020, these figures are worryingly still the third-highest ever recorded by CST. It is clear that Covid-19 has led to a rise in antisemitic conspiracy theories and the use of dangerous alternative media platforms. Whilst it is partly to do with better reporting and knowledge, it is worrying that this trend isn't coming down".
Regarding the nature of the incidents, CST reports that there were 100 cases of assault/extreme violence, 72 of damage and desecration of Jewish property, 1,399 reports of abusive behaviour (including verbal abuse, antisemitic graffiti, antisemitic abuse via social media and one-off hate mail), 85 direct antisemitic threats, and 12 cases of mass-mailed antisemitic leaflets or emails.
Commenting on the report, National Policing Lead for Hate Crime, Deputy Chief Constable Mark Hamilton said: "We concentrate on the unacceptably high numbers of antisemitic incidents in comparison with other states, but I believe that this disparity is because of improved partnerships and recording practices and I genuinely believe that the United Kingdom is amongst the safest places in the world for Jewish citizens. However, one crime is too many and everyone has a right to live their lives free from targeted abuse. I would encourage all victims of hate to report crimes, either to the police or to the CST."
https://www.statista.com/chart/16928/antisemitic-incidents-in-the-uk-annual/
----------------------------------
People may wish to draw a distinction between anti-Semetic rhetoric and anti-Semetic incidences, but there certainly is strong evidence that anti-Semitism is growing in the UK.
It's a sensitive topic to address but the harsh reality is its an issue that seems to affect more than just Britain's Jewish population, arguably moreso for other groups in recent years. The difference is some groups don't receive the same condemnation or even acknowledgement of the severity of the bigotry affecting their respective communities.
Believe me I'm not intending to turn this into a competition for the oppressed, but the fact is the country is facing a worrying trend in hate crimes across many communities, not specifically the Jewish one.
Syria 594,000 deaths
Yemen 233,000 deaths
Israel/ Gaza 233 deaths
That took five minutes to find out.
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Still a crisis yet no bump since 2019
I agree with you that the Israel/Palestine conflict has taken on an outsized importance for the world's Muslims, in a way that isn't the case for most other atrocities affecting Muslims at present. As I've said before, I personally feel this is counter-productive to the Palestinian cause, especially in a world where Muslims and Muslim states are not the power brokers and....let's say sympathy for Muslims is perhaps less than it might otherwise be.
However, what you don't account for with the Yemen point is that pretty much every single poster on here (or at least every single poster who would have any potential interest in posting about that particular conflict) is pretty much on the same side. Saudi (and UAE) bad, Yemenis on the receiving end of horrible treatment. I don't think you'll find a single poster on here who defends the Saudis in that war. And of course, the conflict has been going on for far less time, involves no majorly important religious sites and as far as I'm aware, doesn't have Saudi settlers involved either.
Despite what I said in the 1st paragraph, people are almost never asking that question with any real degree of intellectual honesty imo.
And there's a thread for each. Why are you incensed that people are talking about the Israeli atrocities?