Israel - Palestine Discussion | Post Respectfully | Discuss more, tweet less

I think a lot of hindu indians hate Islam.
The hatred was curbed previously but the current govt who were responsible for organising the 2002 riots as well have done their best to bring back the hatred and stoke the flames at every instance they could. Which had brought the worst ones to the forefront having free license to get their ways and that includes police and obviously majority of the politicians.
 
The hatred was curbed previously but the current govt who were responsible for organising the 2002 riots as well have done their best to bring back the hatred and stoke the flames at every instance they could. Which had brought the worst ones to the forefront having free license to get their ways and that includes police and obviously majority of the politicians.

It's just something I've noticed as a online phenomenon. I don't how representative it is of the population.
 
Yea, well, saying something like this is using quite an old antisemitic stereotype, so I guess it comes down to fine semantics here.
Saying that the pro-Israel lobby has a disproportionate influence on Western media is not antisemitic. Surely that isn't controversial?
 
Express is reporting this being one of the most right-leaning dailies and being the biggest proponents of Brexit.

Netanyahu’s brutal dissection of ‘crazy’ EU: ‘Stop attacking Israel!’

Netanyahu mentions EU should follow the USA, India and China in their support for Israel. His son has also been dishing EU over the last few days.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...srael-palestine-conflict-eu-hungary-hamas-spt
 
Head at Allerton school in Leeds goes onto social media and says the Palestinian flag is a "call to arms" and antisemetic.
 
Head at Allerton school in Leeds goes onto social media and says the Palestinian flag is a "call to arms" and antisemetic.

Here's the twitter thread with the 2 minute video at the end:

I'm on my mobile so not sure I can embed the video - are you able to do it?

It actually is slightly different, and I think worse, than how you have phrased it. He hasn't had a bigoted rant. He is trying some thoughtful teaching and somehow makes his point that we need more dialogue in the world by stating that the Palestinian flag is used as a call to arms and for promoting antisemitism. So not quite as easy for students to dismiss as nonsense if you see what I mean, and that's what makes it more troubling.
 
Here's the twitter thread with the 2 minute video at the end:

I'm on my mobile so not sure I can embed the video - are you able to do it?

It actually is slightly different, and I think worse, than how you have phrased it. He hasn't had a bigoted rant. He is trying some thoughtful teaching and somehow makes his point that we need more dialogue in the world by stating that the Palestinian flag is used as a call to arms and for promoting antisemitism. So not quite as easy for students to dismiss as nonsense if you see what I mean, and that's what makes it more troubling.


Thanks for posting that. I am not savvy with posting vids on here but had wanted to. Think writing stuff takes away tone, context etc.
 


They're losing the plot


Public opinion is turning against israel.

Due to the posts on social media people are seeing more of the death and destruction caused by the racists in charge of israel and reacting to show support for the Palestinians.

The video of the israeli settler telling the Palestinian woman that if ‘I don't steal it someone else will’ has damaged israel narrative big time.

The video of the worshippers praying and then getting stun grenandes thrown at them by israeli police was another nail in the coffin of the israeli propaganda.

Its quite telling that none of msm covered the huge protest in London yesterday. Some 150k+ people in attendance. Stories of instagram and facebook not allowing the posting of videos and pictures sent by people at the march also goes to show israel influence over these apps.

People are waking up to the apartheid being done and about fkn time
 
Head at Allerton school in Leeds goes onto social media and says the Palestinian flag is a "call to arms" and antisemetic.
My old high school :lol: I don't think it's ever been in the news for the right reasons
 
As Israel conducts its latest round of aggression against the Palestinians, the prevailing narrative often peddled in mainstream western media outlets continues to be implicitly framed to favour the Israeli narrative.

Under the guise of neutrality, media discourse has been to describe the conflict flaring up in occupied East Jerusalem as “clashes” between “both sides”. Israel’s ruthless bombardment of Gaza leading to the deaths of hundreds of civilians is rationalised as an act of “self defence” in response to Hamas’ indiscriminate rocket attacks and their use of “human shields”.

The Israeli state is deeply aware that perception shapes reality. While it commits alleged war crimes with impunity, it can only do so if there is a powerful enough propaganda machine it can deploy to counter inevitable public condemnation and international solidarity with Palestinians.

Enter 'hasbara’ – Israel’s primary messaging tool.

Hasbara – Hebrew for explanation – is a public diplomacy technique which links information warfare with the strategic objectives of the Israeli state. Public diplomacy is to be strategically conceived as a foreign policy priority, whereby a positive image of Israel is cultivated on the world stage, especially considering the image challenges Israel has continuously faced since its creation in 1948.
Basically @Fearless 9-5.
https://www.trtworld.com/magazine/t...el-uses-hasbara-to-whitewash-its-crimes-46775
 
In 2012, Israel would announce its war against Gaza on Twitter. During ‘Operation Pillar of Defense’, as Israeli-funneled talking points saturated the US and European media landscape, hasbara made heavy use of the more distilled communication channels of social media. It further exploited browser functions, search engine algorithms, and other automated mechanisms that controlled what content were presented to viewers.

In the process, Israel designed a narrative of itself as the innocent victim of Palestinian terrorism, one that was accorded with the sovereign right of defense against existential assault. This, despite the fact of having initiated the escalation, possessing advanced aerial power against an adversary without one, and unloading more than one thousand times as many tons of munitions on Gazans.

In 2014, Israel’s war in Gaza under ‘Operation Protective Edge’ prompted a much greater pushback to its media narrative, clearly underestimating the extent of the global outrage to their actions in Gaza.

As images of destruction and dismembered bodies of innocent civilians flooded social media, hasbara proponents were forced to re-double their efforts in well-orchestrated PR campaigns that attempted to reframe war crimes with talking points to whitewash any disproportionate use of force – which even ended up being ineffective back in Israel.

Thought this bit was interesting (from the same article).
 
Also the pinkwashing bit and animal rights stuff. They know how to cater to the Western audience.
Yes was going to post that but then I’d end up posting the whole article.
 
Surely a point for many people to consider 'Am I on the right side of this?'.

Would be a bit like saying, I am on the right side of this?

Essentially it's kind of pointless.

 
@esmufc07 @Frosty thought I’d tackle a few more of these....



Nasser wasn’t really looking for war, events in the months before June 1967 got out of his control, to the point where he couldn’t pull back without damaging his standing in the Arab world. Nasser had been the major Arab figure in the confrontation with Israel since the Suez War (1956) and had something of a heroic status. However Egypt had been involved in a long and bloody stalemate in the Yemen Civil War (started 1962), leaving Nasser’s prestige looking vulnerable.

A coup in Syria in 1966 brought a radical faction of the Ba’th Party into power, and they were very close to Moscow. Tit-for-tat exchanges with Israel on the Golan/Galilee frontier escalated, raising the prospect of a Syria-Israel War. This was also linked to an issue over control of the sources of the Jordan River. Egypt and Syria signed a mutual defense agreement in 1966.

Palestinian militants backed by Syria began launching attacks from the Jordanian-occupied West Bank, leading to Israeli reprisals which further escalated tensions. Then, in May 1967, Soviet intelligence advised Cairo that Israel was gathering forces in the Gallilee in preparation for an invasion of Syria. This appears to have been false information, and historians are divided over Moscow’s intent. In any case, Nasser felt forced to act, as Jordanian and Syria regime outlets began accusing him of sitting back while Israel prepared to strike. So he ejected the UN troops in the Sinai who had acted as a buffer since the Suez War and closed the Straits of Titan to Israeli shipping (something Jerusalem had explicitly warned would be considered an act of war).

Arab war rhetoric was the usual medieval, genocidal stuff. However the Israelis appear to have been confident of victory, although some point to Yitzhak Rabin having a nervous breakdown in the weeks beforehand as evidence that they were more anxious than their subsequent victory might have suggested. There is some debate over whether or not it was a war of choice for Israel - did they fully understand that Nasser was not seeking war? And if so, why not resolve matters through diplomacy? In any case they struck first and ultimately conquered the Sinai, Gaza, East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.



So he has his basic facts wrong here - Israel had occupied Sinai, Gaza, and the West Bank in the previous war. And this was not a war to “murder the Jews” - its aims were rather limited, as Sadat wanted a moral victory he could use to bolster his prestige at home before entering peace talks with Jerusalem. Assad’s goal was to recover the Golan. After initial surprise and set-backs, Israel ultimately hit back to force a stalemate, giving Sadat the ‘victory’ required - Egypt signed a peace deal with Israel in 1979 and ceased to be a confrontation state. For a number of reasons, Syria under Assad was not able to take the same path, and the Golan remains occupied by Israel to this day (they annexed it in the early 80s).



The reasons why the peace talks broke down in 2000 are hotly debated, with figures involved sharply divided over where responsibility lies.

As for Hamas, they were founded in the 80s before peace talks existed, and their growth was somewhat facilitated by the Israelis who welcomed the emergence of a religious rival to the secular PLO.



Hamas “took power” in Gaza after winning parliamentary elections, entering into a kind of power-sharing arrangement with Fatah which quickly broke down, and then defeating a US-backed attempt by Fatah to oust them. So to describe their Palestinian opponents as “democratic” in this context is bollox, whatever the valid reasons for the opposition to Hamas of the various brokers involved.
 
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For the record I'm pro Palestine on the issue,

But can't help with shaking my head on the https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pallywood?src=hashtag_click



And the dead shall walk

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/57111293

A video does not show a 'fake funeral' in Gaza

A viral video reportedly from Jordan is being passed off as a 'fake funeral' in Gaza

Some Israeli social media influencers shared a video claiming it showed Palestinians faking a funeral ceremony for an individual supposedly killed by Israeli air strikes in Gaza - in order to attract global sympathy.

In the video, which was also shared by an adviser to the Israeli Foreign Ministry, a group of teenagers carry what looks like a body covered with a shroud on their shoulders.

As soon as they hear the sound of sirens, they leave the body on the ground and run off. Left alone, the supposed body also gets up and runs away.

We found the same video posted in March 2020, with reports at the time suggesting that it showed a group of boys in Jordan trying to avoid strict Covid-19 restrictions by pretending to hold a funeral.

The clip was shared under the hashtag "Palywood" [Palestinian Hollywood] hundreds of times by pro-Israeli users on major social media platforms.
 
Would be a bit like saying, I am on the right side of this?

Essentially it's kind of pointless.


What an awful take.

Are you seriously comparing a few idiots in north London to someone who's made a career out of being racist, Islamophobic, perjury, and using his donors funds to fuel a coke habit and lavish lifestyle? Even many Jewish groups have condemned him being at the rally.

https://metro.co.uk/2021/05/23/jewi...n-after-he-attends-pro-israel-march-14631752/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...binson-israel-palestine-protest-b1852669.html
 
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/05/israel-palestine-coverage-bias-reporters.html

“I Did Have Some Trouble Reporting the Truth”
Some journalists covering Israel and Palestine say an “illusive concept of impartiality” led them to face persistent doubts and skewed editing for years. Is that changing now?

“We have the world’s best editors, who were really sincere about their desire to be truthful in the reporting on what’s happening. And then we had another tier of editor above them who were more mindful of the tone of the media organization, and dictated a lot of the tone,” he said over the phone.

To Omar, when a statement came from the Israel Defense Forces, senior editors at the paper treated it as fact. When Omar recorded a statement from an eyewitness on the ground that contradicted the Israeli military’s account, he said the top editors called it unreliable. “And that could be their own reporter’s eyes—not just people we were interviewing after the fact,” he said.

“I wrote this piece about the extraordinary number of people that were being killed in Gaza in 2014. It was ready to go. It had gone through so many edits. Excruciating edits. And the holdup was they wanted me to find out exactly how many children were injured by Hamas rockets in Israel. And then get reporting on the psychological impact of that on Israeli children,” he told me. “It’s this level of bending over backwards for some illusive concept of impartiality that is just so impractical and would never be applied to any story elsewhere in the organization. If a Black man gets shot by police, we do not go and try and track down how many white cops were assaulted by Black men that same year or something like that. It’s dispiriting, and upsetting,” he said.

Peter Beinart, a writer and editor-at-large at Jewish Currents, a progressive Jewish magazine, told me the battles about stories are often fought in these details. “There’s a whole carefully curated language around this conflict, where terms are often deployed in order to not provoke controversy, or backlash,” he told me. Beinart said he believes this isn’t motivated by political slant, but rather conditioning. “One of the things that I hope that will start to happen is that people will interrogate that language and ask, ‘Maybe this is the politically safe language, but is it actually true?’ ”

Beinart has already noticed changes in how reporters and outlets choose their words in recent months. He pointed to the increasing use of “racist” instead of phrases like “racially tinged.” He expects more of the press is close to bringing that bluntness when we speak about Israel. “Even putting aside what happens in the West Bank or Gaza, where Palestinians aren’t citizens at all and the state dominates their lives, it is very frightening that words like ‘ethnonationalism’ or ‘Jewish supremacy’ or ‘Jewish domination’ would be unsafe words for most mainstream newspapers to use. Even though, in a certain sense, they really shouldn’t be controversial.”

Beinart also said he expects the language we use about organizations like Hamas to evolve over time as well. “People are so afraid of legitimizing or justifying Hamas. And I understand why they wouldn’t—a friend of mine was killed in a Hamas bus bombing. I have a personal experience with Hamas’ violence,” he told me. Still, he said he believes some language about Hamas obscures context. “One of the things that happens is we hear about a Hamas official being killed, but Hamas is running the equivalent of a Post Office. It’s got a military wing in its organization, but it’s also running a civil society. So those distinctions are often lost.”

I won't copy all of it, but some really interesting bits here.

@VorZakone - you will find this interesting (as you found the hasbara one interesting).

There's a clear initiative by the Zionists to control the narrative portrayed in wider media.
 
@esmufc07 @Frosty thought I’d tackle a few more of these....



Nasser wasn’t really looking for war, events in the months before June 1967 got out of his control, to the point where he couldn’t pull back without damaging his standing in the Arab world. Nasser had been the major Arab figure in the confrontation with Israel since the Suez War (1956) and had something of a heroic status. However Egypt had been involved in a long and bloody stalemate in the Yemen Civil War (started 1962), leaving Nasser’s prestige looking vulnerable.

A coup in Syria in 1966 brought a radical faction of the Ba’th Party into power, and they were very close to Moscow. Tit-for-tat exchanges with Israel on the Golan/Galilee frontier escalated, raising the prospect of a Syria-Israel War. This was also linked to an issue over control of the sources of the Jordan River. Egypt and Syria signed a mutual defense agreement in 1966.

Palestinian militants backed by Syria began launching attacks from the Jordanian-occupied West Bank, leading to Israeli reprisals which further escalated tensions. Then, in May 1967, Soviet intelligence advised Cairo that Israel was gathering forces in the Gallilee in preparation for an invasion of Syria. This appears to have been false information, and historians are divided over Moscow’s intent. In any case, Nasser felt forced to act, as Jordanian and Syria regime outlets began accusing him of sitting back while Israel prepared to strike. So he ejected the UN troops in the Sinai who had acted as a buffer since the Suez War and closed the Straits of Titan to Israeli shipping (something Jerusalem had explicitly warned would be considered an act of war).

Arab war rhetoric was the usual medieval, genocidal stuff. However the Israelis appear to have been confident of victory, although some point to Yitzhak Rabin having a nervous breakdown in the weeks beforehand as evidence that they were more anxious than their subsequent victory might have suggested. There is some debate over whether or not it was a war of choice for Israel - did they fully understand that Nasser was not seeking war? And if so, why not resolve matters through diplomacy? In any case they struck first and ultimately conquered the Sinai, Gaza, East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Golan Heights.



So he has his basic facts wrong here - Israel had occupied Sinai, Gaza, and the West Bank in the previous war. And this was not a war to “murder the Jews” - its aims were rather limited, as Sadat wanted a moral victory he could use to bolster his prestige at home before entering peace talks with Jerusalem. Assad’s goal was to recover the Golan. After initial surprise and set-backs, Israel ultimately hit back to force a stalemate, giving Sadat the ‘victory’ required - Egypt signed a peace deal with Israel in 1979 and ceased to be a confrontation state. For a number of reasons, Syria under Assad was not able to take the same path, and the Golan remains occupied by Israel to this day (they annexed it in the early 80s).



The reasons why the peace talks broke down in 2000 are hotly debated, with figures involved sharply divided over where responsibility lies.

As for Hamas, they were founded in the 80s before peace talks existed, and their growth was somewhat facilitated by the Israelis who welcomed the emergence of a religious rival to the secular PLO.



Hamas “took power” in Gaza after winning parliamentary elections, entering into a kind of power-sharing arrangement with Fatah which quickly broke down, and then defeating a US-backed attempt by Fatah to oust them. So to describe their Palestinian opponents as “democratic” in this context is bollox, whatever the valid reasons for the opposition to Hamas of the various brokers involved.

Thanks for this, interesting as always