He does though, watch the video. He initially falls and then throws his body in front of Neymar, whether or not he had control doesn't matter, it was still done. I'm not arguing whether or not he saw it. You're going in circles, talking about whether or not he saw Neymar, that's irrelevant, he obstructed Neymar's path after making a mistake, simple as.
Is it just me or do Barcelona get game changing favors from refs every game?
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He does though, watch the video. He initially falls and then throws his body in front of Neymar, whether or not he had control doesn't matter, it was still done. I'm not arguing whether or not he saw it. You're going in circles, talking about whether or not he saw Neymar, that's irrelevant, he obstructed Neymar's path after making a mistake, simple as.
I think the first and the most obvious thing is obviously the ref isn't cheating, his reputation would be severely damaged if he is judged to be the key factor in a game of this magnitude. United have had a ridiculous amount of dodgy decisions this year, probably our most since fergie retired. I get there is a bad taste in the mouth but that game was neigh on impossible to judge, there was debatable calls every couple of minutes, it was all over the place, psg could have had a man sent off in the same way barca could with verratti. I think the first penalty isn't outrageous at all and the second one came amidst a period of huge pressure where given there is contact its a difficult call for the ref.
Really not the first time they're getting help from the ref's in CL. Milan 2006 Shevchenko disallowed goal for foul on Puyol that never happened. Chelsea 2009, no need to comment on that. Arsenal 2011 RVP being sent off for not hearing the whistle in a stadium of 100K attendance. Madrid 2011 Pepe red and ton of other decisions. Milan 2012 that out of play penalty, same situation that wasn't called last night foe Busquets holding down Matuidi. Chelsea 2013 penalty and sending off John Terry. Atletico Madrid 2016 Torres red card. PSG 2017.
How does he even know where he's lunging? He has no idea where Neymar is.
I'm going to go with yes. 5 minutes of stoppage time isn't anything to get on your horse about either, actually could have been more. One penalty decision I think was wrong, the other controversial but still a pen. The PSG pens would have been as soft as well though. I'm not denying they got the rub of the green and had their luck with decisions, but these conspiracy theories are bullshit.
You're clutching mate. If he wasn't aware of where Neymar was and where Neymar was going to run to he wouldn't have lost his footing in the first place. It was a desperation attempt at defending. Also even if he didn't, whether or not he saw Neymar it doesn't change the fact that he obstructed his path. Calls aren't given on whether or not the defender was aware of where their attacker was, that's not how football works.
I have no problems saying Suarez wasn't a pen, he wanted it and went down at the tiniest touch, but there was contact, so I think it's not an absolute dive (like this one) I will argue much more about Neymar, Pique's yellow, Macherano pen, those I think were much clearer.
On stoppage time AFAIK there's a convention of 30 seconds for a sub or a goal.
I was arguing with your stupid fact that he lunges himself into him. Like it's intentionally and with complete purpose. That - was - it.
You then want to change the discussion because you obviously know he didn't lunge into him. You're just trying to save some face
Come on, everyone can see it. Just fecking admit he didnt lunge into him. I was arguing with your stupid fact that he lunges himself into him. Like it's intentionally and with complete purpose. That - was - it.
You then want to change the discussion because you obviously know he didn't lunge into him. You're just trying to save some face
Firstly you're talking bollocks because nowhere have I mentioned it was intentional, in fact I've mentioned at least once in every one of my posts that it probably wasn't, but also that it doesn't matter. Also if from the videos posted you cannot see that he lunges infront of Neymar, this discussion is getting nowhere.
He had the initial fall and then when on the ground moved further forward.
I thought that was only for a sub tbh.
Eh?
So he planned on slipping and losing his footing? Foooooooking hell, I've heard it all.
Eh?
So he planned on slipping and losing his footing? Foooooooking hell, I've heard it all.
I'm genuinely baffled that you managed to get that from what I said. He was caught wrong footed when the pass came in as he obviously wasn't expecting it, and then attempting to turn off balance he fell, how hard is that to comprehend.
Similar to the Messi v Boateng thing a few years back, instead if Boateng fell to the ground then blocked Messi's path.
Barcelona do play some incredible football and have a lot of talent on show, but there's no doubt about it, they also get a lot of help from the referees.
Then again, you have to hand it to them, they are one of the top sides who know what it takes to win trophies. Football is a rare sport where the rules are designed to be bent and, in many cases, completely broken. The system is setup for controversy, and Barcelona are very well schooled in the so-called 'dark arts.' The only real surprise is that the media doesn't make a big deal of it, instead choosing to focus almost exclusively on Barcelona's admittedly impressive style of football.
It's a really fine balance. A lot of us United fans (myself included) lament our own players for diving or other similar unsporting conduct, but in football maybe that's what you need to get over the line? Barcelona realise that and they've been backing-up their excellent football with a good sprinkling of cheating, and the results speak for themselves.
Then again, you have to hand it to them, they are one of the top sides who know what it takes to win trophies. Football is a rare sport where the rules are designed to be bent and, in many cases, completely broken. The system is setup for controversy, and Barcelona are very well schooled in the so-called 'dark arts.' The only real surprise is that the media doesn't make a big deal of it, instead choosing to focus almost exclusively on Barcelona's admittedly impressive style of football.
It's a really fine balance. A lot of us United fans (myself included) lament our own players for diving or other similar unsporting conduct, but in football maybe that's what you need to get over the line? Barcelona realise that and they've been backing-up their excellent football with a good sprinkling of cheating, and the results speak for themselves.
I now understand what you said, however, there's about 3/4 seconds from when he loses his footing to when Neymar runs into him. The moment he's lost his balance, he has no idea where Neymar is running and pretty much loses control of what he can and can't do with his body.
I guess you also agree with Herrera's sending off against Burnley earlier in the season?
I don't think it was that long, firstly, more like 1-2. Secondly, that's not what I'm arguing. Whether or not he saw Neymar doesn't change the fact that Neymar was through on goal and was obstructed. As I've mentioned, if penalties were only given for intent there wouldn't be any. No defender wants to be left on his arse not knowing where his attacker is.
The first one is stonewall, I cant see it being any other way. Intentional or not, the defender was extremely clumsy and blocked Neymar.
The second one is more debatable, but then again there was contact on suarez's knee before he went down. All Suarez needs is a nick and he is down, the defender should know better.
The second one is more debatable, but then again there was contact on suarez's knee before he went down. All Suarez needs is a nick and he is down, the defender should know better.
I've had that penalty down as questionable ever since I saw it, the guy is on the floor and IMO Neymar runs into him. Neymar knows exactly what he's doing and he's trying to win a cheap penalty.
Cheap penalty maybe, but still a penalty. It's the defender's fault for putting himself in that position. Any defender is playing a numbers game once he goes to the floor.
But I still don't see how losing your footing is the defender's fault tbh, he's not deliberately fallen over.
Anywhoo, time for work
That Mascherano handball was a penalty too I think. I find it hard to argue that Barca didn't get favorable decisions. On the other hand, PSG should not have conceded the 4 other goals if you discount the 2 pens. That is shocking.
Both Barcelona and Real receive questionable decisions almost always. From the outside it does look like there is something 'debatable' happening in Spain.
There is contact with the right foot just about the time Di Maria is hitting the ball.
Edit: Why are we even debating this? Mascherano has himself admitted that he fouled him.
The Di Maria one is forgivable. How any of the five refs are supposed to see that is baffling. I've seen it slowed down 5 times and can just about make it out. Referees need the help of tech, surely it's past debate now?
Have we balls had a ridiculous amount of dodgy decisions, does your memory only cover the last few games or something? At the start we had loads going against us.
/threadderailment
Looks to me like he clips his trailing foot but also that di Maria had already shot just before that. Far from clear cut either way.
That's why it should have been an indirect free-kick in the box for obstruction.
I've seen this before but it seems to be a myth. There's nothing about obstruction always being an indirect free-kick in the laws of the game. In fact, the term obstruction is rarely used. Impeding an opponent without contact results in an indirect free-kick but impeding with contact is a direct free-kick. Either way, it's highly unlikely this particular incident would've been considered impediment, rather than a careless tackle or challenge, which results in a direct free-kick or penalty without the need for further disciplinary action (can't remember if Meunier was booked).
Course he does. He hasn't suddenly become so disorientated that he's unaware of the world around him.
The problem is both players cheated. He dives onto Neymars path and Neymar purposely runs into him. So it's a tricky one. Today's players cause all sorts of problems for refs.
On balance I'd say it's a pen and I'm firmly in the camp that believes Barca get favourable treatment.
Interesting. I haven't seen that specific split between contact and non-contact. But either way I would still argue that Meunier impeded the opponent in an obstructing manner rather than in a conventional tackle or challenge.
This thread makes a great read from page one to the last. Things that haven't been mentioned enough imo:
100.000 people rooting for you in the stadium definitely influences the ref in a more extreme way than having only 60.000 rooting for you.
Also: Neymar kicked the shit out of someone's ankles (in the PSG box) out of frustration, long after the ball was gone. That's a red card at least 80% of the time in most matches, but the fifth/sixth official didn't even care. Edit:/ I think he actually got a yellow? It was the foul on Marquinhos.
So we have a team that attacks more than any team in the world. They have the best forwards in the world, who love to dive. And they have the biggest stadium of all European big clubs, with 100.000 people influencing the referee. Favourism guaranteed.
100.000 people rooting for you in the stadium definitely influences the ref in a more extreme way than having only 60.000 rooting for you.
Also: Neymar kicked the shit out of someone's ankles (in the PSG box) out of frustration, long after the ball was gone. That's a red card at least 80% of the time in most matches, but the fifth/sixth official didn't even care. Edit:/ I think he actually got a yellow? It was the foul on Marquinhos.
So we have a team that attacks more than any team in the world. They have the best forwards in the world, who love to dive. And they have the biggest stadium of all European big clubs, with 100.000 people influencing the referee. Favourism guaranteed.
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Dude ffs Monaco vs. City had only 3 minutes added even tho there was more goals and same amount of penalties.
How would a handball and holding down a player not to score be a soft call?
Barcelona got 2 ridiculous penalties, 3 weren't called for PSG that were much more persuasive and easier to call.
You can dance around it as much as you want but the truth remains that ref's pushed Barcelona through... As they always do.
If tables were turned and same decisions were in barcas favor you'd be fuming right now.
It's as simple as that and that applies to all big clubs or dominant teams.
True but how many refs would award a penalty to Suarez for that.
In PL it would not be a penalty in 10 out of 10 cases.
That Mascherano tackle is as clear cut a penalty as there should be. He clearly hits the standing leg just when Di Maria is going to shoot (disbalancing him).
But despite all the favours the REF did for Barca. There is no reason PSG should be losing that tie after the 4-0. There were times during last night's game where PSG were looking like a pub team who couldn't put 3 passes together. Their players turned up thinking that the match was over, and that's criminal.
I stopped watching when Veratti tried to pass to a midfielder next to him with 5 Barca players around. There was no way that pass would not be intercepted! If PSG would have kept the ball better for 15% of the game, they would have been through to the next round.
But despite all the favours the REF did for Barca. There is no reason PSG should be losing that tie after the 4-0. There were times during last night's game where PSG were looking like a pub team who couldn't put 3 passes together. Their players turned up thinking that the match was over, and that's criminal.
I stopped watching when Veratti tried to pass to a midfielder next to him with 5 Barca players around. There was no way that pass would not be intercepted! If PSG would have kept the ball better for 15% of the game, they would have been through to the next round.
I understand people support Barcelona but guys have some decency.
Ref's pushed Barcelona through, 2 flimsy penalties awarded to them, 3 of the same if not more persuasive ones weren't given to PSG.
The worst of is that it's not the first time.
Ref's pushed Barcelona through, 2 flimsy penalties awarded to them, 3 of the same if not more persuasive ones weren't given to PSG.
The worst of is that it's not the first time.
For sure.
Yeah, I don´t buy this argument as the only really remarkable thing about the Camp Nou is the sheer size of the thing. When I switched channels over to the Barca game in the last ten minutes the question until the last Goal I kept asking myself was: "Why is the stadium so damn quiet?" There was a hell lot more noise in the 65k Westfalenstadium when there was no tension at all in the game anymore. If I think back to the Malaga game in 2013 where we were in a similar situation as Barca last night (needing multiple goals in injury time) the difference in atmosphere is freaking massive.
It is also not just the Westfalenstadium, other big stadiums also create far more heat than the Nou Camp on special occasions, be it the Allianz-Arena, Old Trafford or the Bernabeu (now that is a Spanish Stadium that can turn up if needed).
The referee yesterday did want to help Barcelona to win the game.
Successful job.
Successful job.