India Tour of South Africa

Such a disappointment after 1st session today, tough to criticize bowlers when your batters can just about amass 300 runs over 2 innings. Even though bowling was bit loose in the 1st innings, top order completely collapsing in 1st innings is a bigger culprit.

Tough to see us bouncing back when everyone looks so shaky including Kohli.
 
Such a disappointment after 1st session today, tough to criticize bowlers when your batters can just about amass 300 runs over 2 innings. Even though bowling was bit loose in the 1st innings, top order completely collapsing in 1st innings is a bigger culprit.

Tough to see us bouncing back when everyone looks so shaky including Kohli.

Kohli hardly looked shaky. He was looking in excellent touch, missed a straighter one.
 
I don't blame our bowlers at all. They've taken 20 wickets in less than 2 days!

Our batting has been disgusting though. Sure, there's been a few unplayable deliveries, but the number of piss poor shots is unjustifiable. We were 1 freak Pandya innings away from an absolute mauling!
 
Kohli hardly looked shaky. He was looking in excellent touch, missed a straighter one.

It was an in-swinger and it swung before his eyes but given he likes to walk across even before the delivery has been bowled it always makes him vulnerable to be trapped, Rohit got out in same fashion in 1st innings.

You really think Kohli exuded same confidence as he usually does in his 2 innings? In 2nd innings he didn't fish outside off as he usually does but got done anyway, with a bowling lineup of SA any tiny little flaw will be exposed.
 
Valiant effort. Was about to type something about Shami but he just got out...

Very poor batting. India must drop Dhawan and Rohit. Have no idea why the latter was picked. I honestly think we would have won with Rahane.
 
Rohit and dhawan have to be criticised but I look at saha also. Ashwin bhuvi both are proving to be better batsmen than him, what is his role? I say give the gloves to Rahul and bring rahane instead of Rohit or dhawan
 
The batsman let us down. Ah well.
 
Rohit and dhawan have to be criticised but I look at saha also. Ashwin bhuvi both are proving to be better batsmen than him, what is his role? I say give the gloves to Rahul and bring rahane instead of Rohit or dhawan

Yeah, Saha is actually shit away from home. I cant remember a single innings of significance from. I think Karthik would have been better and hes performed in SA before.
 
This has been an excellent test match, with the result in doubt up until about 90 minutes ago.

Hardly an arguement for a full revamp

Almost take your point, but the home side still won. 70+ runs isn't really a close run thing.

The point I was making that - in general - international teams are struggling to post scores away from home that are anything like competitive. I consider India to be a very good team when at full strength yet they've just capitulated to 135 all out.
There was quite an in depth conversation on BT Sport in the UK about this issue the other day and a lot of the top pundits on the game all agree something needs to be done.
The trouble is for example how do you force India to produce a wicket that isn't favourable to spinners? By giving the away side automatic first use of the pitch it evens things up just that little bit.
 
Almost take your point, but the home side still won. 70+ runs isn't really a close run thing.

The point I was making that - in general - international teams are struggling to post scores away from home that are anything like competitive. I consider India to be a very good team when at full strength yet they've just capitulated to 135 all out.
There was quite an in depth conversation on BT Sport in the UK about this issue the other day and a lot of the top pundits on the game all agree something needs to be done.
The trouble is for example how do you force India to produce a wicket that isn't favourable to spinners? By giving the away side automatic first use of the pitch it evens things up just that little bit.

It's sad when only India are called the home track bullys when most of the teams are the same. Like you pointed out home teams will play to their advantage which is what India also does. England getting thrashed by australia in australia is another example of how every country has become home track bullys.
 
Almost take your point, but the home side still won. 70+ runs isn't really a close run thing.

The point I was making that - in general - international teams are struggling to post scores away from home that are anything like competitive. I consider India to be a very good team when at full strength yet they've just capitulated to 135 all out.
There was quite an in depth conversation on BT Sport in the UK about this issue the other day and a lot of the top pundits on the game all agree something needs to be done.
The trouble is for example how do you force India to produce a wicket that isn't favourable to spinners? By giving the away side automatic first use of the pitch it evens things up just that little bit.

So did SA. This match was lost in the first innings. Rain killed the batting in the 2nd innings for both sides.
 
It's sad when only India are called the home track bullys when most of the teams are the same. Like you pointed out home teams will play to their advantage which is what India also does. England getting thrashed by australia in australia is another example of how every country has become home track bullys.

Saffers lost 3-0 when they visited India last time around and they're the best visiting team.

Home domination is something which can't seem to be fixed right now in world cricket.
 
Almost take your point, but the home side still won. 70+ runs isn't really a close run thing.

The point I was making that - in general - international teams are struggling to post scores away from home that are anything like competitive. I consider India to be a very good team when at full strength yet they've just capitulated to 135 all out.
There was quite an in depth conversation on BT Sport in the UK about this issue the other day and a lot of the top pundits on the game all agree something needs to be done.
The trouble is for example how do you force India to produce a wicket that isn't favourable to spinners? By giving the away side automatic first use of the pitch it evens things up just that little bit.

Lets wait till the series is over. India made some strange selections and also confusingly chose not to have any warm up games.

As for the overall point, conditions are playing a huge part. I think it was in 2011 after India lost 4-0 in England and 4-0 Australia where India were heavily scrutinised. IIRC, Dhoni/India said that they would got forward in home test matches by curating pitches to their strengths and since then all nations seem to be doing the same.

For this particular series, if you're not exposed to these conditions then how can you adjust to them? Its a difficult issue to solve and I dont think there are many solutions. The few times I have seen India suceed in these conditions were when everyone of their greatest batsmen where in the form of their lives. With England, I think its a lack of quality in both departments. With the rest (SA, Ind, Aus), its lack of exposure to foreign conditions.

With regards to this test match, it was close and India were still in the game at 130-7 and given the circumstances, I think we performed well. Normally, India dont do well in the first match of an away series so we may yet see the best of this team. Lets see. Our best "away" batsmen didnt even play. If India can draw this series, the narrative will change. If not, then the ICC and other boards have to start thinking about potential solutions.
 
The point I was making that - in general - international teams are struggling to post scores away from home that are anything like competitive.

It would be interesting to look at the stats for test matches just this decade starting 2010. I expect there to be more overall wins in test matches compared to earlier eras (lower percentage of draws especially without rain interruptions I mean) and home teams absolutely dominating. It could be because of players having slightly inferior technique, lack of proper tour matches (either low number of matches scheduled or home sides giving flat pitches nowhere near ideal conditions for preparation), home sides preparing pitches that suit them more, bowlers being more suited to certain type of pitches instead of all-round performers. All this in comparison with previous eras, of course.

Apart from Eng-SA and SA-Aus, almost all series between top sides have become very one-sided. Eng hadn't won at home vs SA since 1998 (until they eventually did in 2016). SA haven't won at home vs Eng since 2003. Aus haven't won at home vs SA since a decade and SA have never won vs Aus at home since readmission. Their conditions are also not completely alien to each other (compared to subcontinent, carribbean, swinging, seaming) India are traditionally stronger at home (Eng won only once in last 30 yrs, Steve Waugh never won while their 2004 win was very narrow - green pitch in Nagpur and 5th day washout in Chennai with Ind in strong position chasing). Even South Africa during their 9-yr unbeaten away run have never won a series in India in that time. With these new trends, India have become almost unbeatable at home - lost only one test match in last 5 years.

I consider India to be a very good team when at full strength yet they've just capitulated to 135 all out.
As I said in some earlier post, it was a good test match for first two days with SA being in a naturally stronger position at a home match. But the rain on 3rd day meant the conditions were unplayable today. Even SA could score only 130. It is very difficult for batsmen to adjust to seaming conditions - there is barely any time to adjust your stance when someone's bowling at you at 140+. You don't have enough time to calculate whether that ball would be seam into you or away from you and before you know it you're either plumb or have nicked off to the cordon.

Also, as many have said already as soon as the team news came out - Rahul and Rahane had to be in the side in place of Dhawan and Rohit. I'm the first to acknowledge that Rohit has improved quite a lot in test matches in last 15 months (including the NZ series at home) but Rahane will always have a better game to suit foreign conditions. If it's a straight competition between Rahane and Rohit - Rahane will always win for matches outside subcontinent. But the problem was Rahane was woefully out of form for over a year but he should have been persisted with considering his troubles are only against spinners (weird for a Mumbai batsman). Dhawan averaged 70+ for last year but it's one thing playing SL in subcontinent and completely different playing SA in seaming Newlands. Rahul was Man of the Series (I think) vs Aus series last year which was very competitive and he'd have suited this match much better than Dhawan. I haven't watched Dhawan's wicket today but he played a completely daft shot trying to take on Steyn with half an hr left to play on day 1 after already losing another opener to a daft shot. But now that I've said it, I expect Rahul to come into the side for 2nd match and play a daft shot away from body nicking off for 2 in the first over of next match. C'est la vie.
There was quite an in depth conversation on BT Sport in the UK about this issue the other day and a lot of the top pundits on the game all agree something needs to be done.
We could maybe arrange more tour matches and get the visiting sides adjusted to foreign conditions? Make sure that home sides provide decent practice pitches instead of flat ones? Or the foreign players can join county sides for half a season before touring England? But with large number of global T20 tournaments, there's barely any time left in calendar for players to do this without substantially affecting their income. I hear IPL will be included in ICC cricket calendar (which means no international tournaments during these 45 days) from this or next year which is daft.

The trouble is for example how do you force India to produce a wicket that isn't favourable to spinners? By giving the away side automatic first use of the pitch it evens things up just that little bit.
After following the sport for so long I realized that preparing a competitive pitch is extremely difficult and has very narrow margin or error. Pitch preparation depends on the local soil as well as the amount of water and the weather conditions overhead. England can have spin pitches (I think) if they played between late Aug and Oct, North Indian places like Mohali and Dharmasala can have conditions suitable for fast bowlers, etc. India provided 3 competitive pitches and two roads (Rajkot and Chennai) for Eng's visit last year. Eng won the toss 4 times, batted first all 4 times and ended up losing 3 of those matches with two innings defeats after scoring 400+. Aus lost 7 (or 6?) straight matches after winning toss and batting first in India and Pune was the first time they broke the sequence. Dharmasala had the most Australian like conditions with pace and bounce but Australians got bounced out by Umesh Yadav. Kolkata had seam friendly conditions when Ind played NZ but Bhuvi ripped through NZ order while Southee and Boult couldn't do the same to India. Even the Newlands pitch provided enough assistance for Indian bowlers but their lack of consistency compared to SA meant they fell short of their top level in 1st innings. In hindsight, Umesh or Ishant (ideal prototype to Morkel) would have been better than Bumrah but it takes a lot of factors for foreign teams to use the advantage or conditions they're provided compared to home sides.
 
Why should it be easy for travelling teams? Home advantage should count for something.
 
What a waste. We had such a good chance to win that.

Rahul and Rahane, please.

Vijay's playing like shit as well.
 
My playing X1 for the next test will be
Vijay dhawan pujara kohli rahane Rahul (wk) ashwin pandya bhuvi shami ishant

I will drop saha immediately and ask Rahul to keep wickets and will keep dhawan considering he atleast tries to score runs unlike vijay and pujara who prefer to spend more time and then getting out. I will drop rohit. I will also drop bumrah and bring in ishant. As good bumrah was, we should stop forcing limited over players in longer formats.Ishant is a proper test bowler and will be more effective.
 
Ways touring teams could tour better:
  • Get boards that care about domestic 4 day cricket
  • Prepare more variable pitches in their 4 day cricket so batsmen and bowlers can be exposed to pitches similar to ones they'll face abroad
  • Get players to play more 4 day tournaments across the world
  • Get the ICC involved in organising warm-up matches against decent opposition and have a proper build-up pre-series (i.e. a month not a week)
None of that is going to happen because a lot of it hinges on changing reducing the amount of One-Day/T20 stuff played and moving the calendars around. There's too much money in T20 to even consider that.
 
Ways touring teams could tour better:
  • Get boards that care about domestic 4 day cricket
  • Prepare more variable pitches in their 4 day cricket so batsmen and bowlers can be exposed to pitches similar to ones they'll face abroad
  • Get players to play more 4 day tournaments across the world
  • Get the ICC involved in organising warm-up matches against decent opposition and have a proper build-up pre-series (i.e. a month not a week)
None of that is going to happen because a lot of it hinges on changing reducing the amount of One-Day/T20 stuff played and moving the calendars around. There's too much money in T20 to even consider that.
The secret to the great Indian batsmen like Sachin and Dravid having insane away records, apart from them being quality, was exposure to county cricket.
 
That wicket was basically unplayable on days 1 and 4, don't think any amount of extra preparation would have changed that. Best of luck to the Indian batsmen facing Morkel and Rabada at Centurion, don't forget your arm and chest guards.
 
Why should it be easy for travelling teams? Home advantage should count for something.
I don’t think that’s the objective though - to make it easier for teams visiting India. India producing faster wickets, in India, is proposed as more of a means for India to go overseas, travelling much better prepared for all kinds of wickets. That’s how I understand it anyway.
 
I don’t think that’s the objective though - to make it easier for teams visiting India. India producing faster wickets, in India, is proposed as more of a means for India to go overseas, travelling much better prepared for all kinds of wickets. That’s how I understand it anyway.

Alternatively, other nations should curate dust bowls to help prepare for India and the subcontinent :D.
 
The ability to go and win in difficult foreign conditions is what separates the great Test teams for the rest.
 
The ability to go and win in difficult foreign conditions is what separates the great Test teams for the rest.

Exactly. Unless we play on standardised concrete pitches local conditions will always vary. The best players can adapt to any conditions and the best teams can win anywhere
 
I think the best solution is county cricket. Zaheer and Bhajji come to mind as two who improved a lot from stints in England. In fact, the former rose from the dust and became the number 1 faat bowler in the world for a while. Pujara and Ashwin have played here too and its helped a lot. Dont see why others shouldnt give it a try and not just for a game or two.
 
So there's some serious talk of dropping Saha and bringing in Parthiv.

Also Ishant was supposed to play the first test but got ill and Bhuvi played in his place.

What the feck is happening?
 
So there's some serious talk of dropping Saha and bringing in Parthiv.

Also Ishant was supposed to play the first test but got ill and Bhuvi played in his place.

What the feck is happening?

I think Rahane will play and they will drop Dhawan and Saha. Bhumrah will be dropped for Ishant
 
India tried to be clever in the first test and have confused themselves.

Saha doesn't deserve to be dropped. Ishant should be playing - in place of Bumrah - he bowled quite well in the recent past. Rahul should be starting, he's one of our best batsmen. I would rather give him 10 chances to fail than Dhawan.

I know Pandya made runs but I don't think he should be playing. He is not proven enough to be counted as a batsman in a 6 batsman unit(which is what we are, given the wk/batsman is not so good). I thought his bowling was good, but he leaves the batting lightweight. Choosing between Rohit and Pandya is the least controversial call, though. Rohit himself has not proven to be anything other than a flat track specialist. The others should be no brainers.

Parthiv/Saha swap is not so controversial either. It would be harsh on Saha but Parthiv is not poor by any means.

Rahul, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Rohit, Saha, Ashwin, Bhuvaneshwar, Ishant, Shammi.
 
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Personally I'm convinced we should drop Rohit..

Rahul, Vijay, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane, Rohit, Saha, Ashwin, Bhuvaneshwar, Ishant, Shammi.
I'd go with this team but would have Pandya in place of Rohit.. He can bowl well and get us a break through atleast.. And since I expect Rohit to not get more than 10 runs anyway,I'm sure Pandya would be better in the batting sense too..
 
They dropped Bhuvi. Morons.
 
Personally I'm convinced we should drop Rohit..


I'd go with this team but would have Pandya in place of Rohit.. He can bowl well and get us a break through atleast.. And since I expect Rohit to not get more than 10 runs anyway,I'm sure Pandya would be better in the batting sense too..

Yea.

Looks like lining up the same way @KM posted. Strange selections.
 
Took the most wickets and played the most balls and yet been dropped. Unless Ishant turns into Ambrose, this is one of the most baffling selections I've ever seen.