India politics thread



Soon Prashant Bhushan will tweet how "militants" were not treated correctly ( wanted Internet etc) and took arms just like Hindu Pandits after their genocide.

Just like ISIS activist for NDTV.

This guy apparently writes for "independent" BBC ( South Asia)



Edit :

Hope we pay back like Army has been doing in last few years.

Reading twitter today has been tough. They died because they tried to save civilians. But some of these "civilians" are celebrating their death. Twitter should be banned in India. Makes no sense to give voice to bigots and we have in abundance which is quite clear.
 
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What is the point of these FIRs? BJP would never let anything happen to him. As soon as they come back to power in Maharashtra, they will quash all FIRs. Police and judicial system in this country is a joke.
 
pratyush_utd said:


Soon Prashant Bhushan will tweet how "militants" were not treated correctly ( wanted Internet etc) and took arms just like Hindu Pandits after their genocide.

Just like ISIS activist for NDTV.

This guy apparently writes for "independent" BBC ( South Asia)



Edit :

Hope we pay back like Army has been doing in last few years.

Reading twitter today has been tough. They died because they tried to save civilians. But some of these "civilians" are celebrating their death. Twitter should be banned in India. Makes no sense to give voice to bigots and we have in abundance which is quite clear.
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Unsurprising:
 
not just is there afspa in kashmir, which means you effectively have no right to life or liberty, there has also been a communications shutdown of varying degrees for about a year, which means that information is difficult to transmit. if any other country did this in a rebellious region we'd guess exactly what they are up to.
 
Methods of torture include severe beatings, electric shock, suspension by the feet or hands, stretching the legs apart, burning with heated objects, sexual molestation and psychological deprivation and humiliation. One common form of torture involves crushing the leg muscles with a heavy wooden roller.14 This practice results in the release of toxins from the damaged muscles that may cause acute renal (kidney) failure. This report documents a number of such cases which required dialysis. Since 1990, doctors in Kashmir have documented 37 cases of torture-related acute renal failure; in three cases the victims died.
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"they want biryani"
 
berbatrick said:
ya this is a good starting point https://www.hrw.org/sites/default/files/reports/INDIA937.PDF
one the one hand you think people in jail want net, on the other soldiers rape a whole village, burn people alive, etc.
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A report based on event in 1990's when Kashmir was under siege, terrorism and Separatists movement was at its peak. A lot of those alleged killings are mentioned ( as narration ) without any context. Also without documented evidence. No mention of the killings of Indian armed forces also.

I am not denying that violence by Indian army personnel didn't happen in Kashmir. What I objected to was to show it as Government and Army policy which isn't true. "It's what India do". Yeah no.


To be honest what do you think India should do? Give up Kashmir? How do you think India should fight terrorist crossing the border?
 
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berbatrick said:
not just is there afspa in kashmir, which means you effectively have no right to life or liberty, there has also been a communications shutdown of varying degrees for about a year, which means that information is difficult to transmit. if any other country did this in a rebellious region we'd guess exactly what they are up to.
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Maybe try to remember why it came into existence? If anyone think law and order can be maintained in Kashmir without army presence then they are delusional at best. Is it a mess? Yes and I for one have sympathy for Kashmiris as I wouldn't want to be in that situation. But untill a better solution is provided, AFSPA is here to stay.

What is your guess by the way? You think Internet after 370 abolition was for sinister reasons? It was done to stop attacks and more or less it has worked. Also you make it sound like entire Kashmir is rebellious region. Few districts in South Kashmir has this issue.
 
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berbatrick said:
"they want biryani"
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Remind me one country out there whose interrogation techniques are found in line with human rights group. It seems like yardstick for India is different than other countries.
 
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pratyush_utd said:

Edit :

Hope we pay back like Army has been doing in last few years.

Reading twitter today has been tough. They died because they tried to save civilians. But some of these "civilians" are celebrating their death. Twitter should be banned in India. Makes no sense to give voice to bigots and we have in abundance which is quite clear.
Click to expand...

Good thoughts


Why Is The Indian Army Desperate To Suppress Details Of A Fake Encounter In Kashmir?
https://m.huffingtonpost.in/2018/08...ll-cause-public-outrage-says-army_a_23506030/

Pathribal Fake Encounter: 19 years later, campaign for elusive justice continues
https://freepresskashmir.news/2019/...later-campaign-for-elusive-justice-continues/

Henious killings and fake encounters in Kashmir, 2007
https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/...as-perturbed-the-valley2007-748375-2007-06-11
 
milemuncher777 said:
Good thoughts


Why Is The Indian Army Desperate To Suppress Details Of A Fake Encounter In Kashmir?
https://m.huffingtonpost.in/2018/08...ll-cause-public-outrage-says-army_a_23506030/

Pathribal Fake Encounter: 19 years later, campaign for elusive justice continues
https://freepresskashmir.news/2019/...later-campaign-for-elusive-justice-continues/

Henious killings and fake encounters in Kashmir, 2007
https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/...as-perturbed-the-valley2007-748375-2007-06-11
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Sorry, not sure I get your point here.

Is your point that in agreement with that person on Twitter, by which you're accusing all encounters to be fake

or is your point that the Indian Army has in the past sometimes strayed beyond what is considered ethical and humane?

If its the second point, don't think you'll have a disagreeing voice. It is unfortunate and it shouldn't happen.

If its the first point, I think you're being disingenuous and presenting a storyline that errs too far in one side.
 
Clique said:
Sorry, not sure I get your point here.

Is your point that in agreement with that person on Twitter, by which you're accusing all encounters to be fake

or is your point that the Indian Army has in the past sometimes strayed beyond what is considered ethical and humane?

If its the second point, don't think you'll have a disagreeing voice. It is unfortunate and it shouldn't happen.

If its the first point, I think you're being disingenuous and presenting a storyline that errs too far in one side.
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Fake encounters of civilians and human rights abuses have been regular occurrence in Kashmir for many years, it's only sometimes isolated incidents are reported in media.

This from the TOI article that I posted
Recently, Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad conceded on the floor of the state legislature that in the last two years, there have been 11 custodial deaths, seven custodial disappearances and not less than 20 cases of rape and molestation by the police and other security officials. The State Human Rights Commission (SHRC), however, alleged in its report tabled during the same Assembly session that there were 36 custodial disappearances, 25 cases of harassment and 20 custodial deaths in one year alone. These figures were preceded by definitive cases of custodial murders by officials of the SOG.
The skeletons started tumbling out of the closet when it was found that the police had picked up Padder, framing him as a Pakistani militant, Abu Zahid. Along with CRPF men, they had shot him dead in a staged gun battle. A special investigation team headed by Deputy Inspector General (DIG) Farooq Ahmed was constituted to probe the case. As it turned out, Padder was not the only victim of the SOG. Four other innocent civilians had met with the same fate. The bodies of all five were exhumed from the catchments of the SOG and handed over to their families for burial.

At least seven police officials, including SSP H.R. Parihar and Deputy SP Bahadur Ram, were arrested while scores were detained for interrogation. The police officers picked up labourers and menial workers, robbed them of their belongings, branded them as foreign militants and killed them in "joint operations" with the army and the CRPF. In all the cases, the SOG and the army had filed fake FIRs in the police records and claimed they had recovered rifles and other ammunition from the "slain foreign militants". These murders would fetch the officials cash rewards and promotions.

It is common knowledge that for many years, police officials have been putting away arms seized during genuine operations for use in such killings. Says DIG Ahmed, "We have been probing the case comprehensively, ranging from conducting DNA tests of the victims to investigating the source of the arms that security forces claim they had found on the dead." What is appalling is that Parihar had escaped action in a similar case and the police even ignored court directions that a murder case be registered against him for the disappearance of Fayaz Ahmed Beig, a photographer at the University of Kashmir, in 1997.

Another arrested police official, constable Farooq Ahmed, who surstates JAMMU & KASHMIR faced as the common link in all these staged killings, would bring the "kills" for the officers from Larnoo, his village. He was not only rewarded by his superiors, but he also took money from the families of the victims for apparently helping to locate them. "When my husband went missing, the constable came to us saying he would help us find him," says Abdul Rehman's wife Muneera, who had paid him Rs 75,000.

Allegations of extra-judicial killings by security agencies have been piling on since the onset of militancy in the state. In 2000, the army killed five civilians and labelled them as foreign militants responsible for the massacre of 35 Sikhs. In 2005, it killed four Hindu porters from Jammu, dubbing them as Pakistani militants.
Following the recent exhumations, resentment in the Valley is strong. Political pressure has led Azad to order a judicial probe into the killings. He has also announced that the Government will probe all incidents of human rights violation in the state since 1990. This includes the issue of disappearances. Azad puts the number of the missing persons since 1990 at 1,017. His predecessor, Mufti Mohammad Sayeed, had pegged it at 3,931 in 2003. However, rights groups say up to 10,000 people have gone missing in the last 17 years of turmoil. "The Government wants to project a rosy picture of the human rights situation, so it is suppressing the figures," alleges Abdul Rahim Rather, leader of the Opposition in the state Assembly.
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pratyush_utd said:
A report based on event in 1990's when Kashmir was under siege, terrorism and Separatists movement was at its peak. A lot of those alleged killings are mentioned ( as narration ) without any context. Also without documented evidence. No mention of the killings of Indian armed forces also.

I am not denying that violence by Indian army personnel didn't happen in Kashmir. What I objected to was to show it as Government and Army policy which isn't true. "It's what India do". Yeah no.


To be honest what do you think India should do? Give up Kashmir? How do you think India should fight terrorist crossing the border?
Click to expand...

i think every pm from nehru onwards has messed up the issue and we have no moral claim in the valley anymore. the original agreement was a referendum, pak broke it, but so did we. nehru arrested his own friend, the most popular mass leader in kashmir, for decades. IG rigged elections. all before the terrorism.

it doesn't matter if it's policy written down or not. rape and torture happened at a massive scale in kashmir, and we know for sure widespread rape happened in NE too, the other AFSPA region. we know that there have been many fake encounters long after the 90s too. at that scale, ordering it or allowing at are identical for people on the ground.

again, if this was any other country, you'd guess exactly what was happening if there was
1. army occupation of a border region
2. effective immunity for the army
 
milemuncher777 said:
Good thoughts


Why Is The Indian Army Desperate To Suppress Details Of A Fake Encounter In Kashmir?
https://m.huffingtonpost.in/2018/08...ll-cause-public-outrage-says-army_a_23506030/

Pathribal Fake Encounter: 19 years later, campaign for elusive justice continues
https://freepresskashmir.news/2019/...later-campaign-for-elusive-justice-continues/

Henious killings and fake encounters in Kashmir, 2007
https://www.indiatoday.in/magazine/...as-perturbed-the-valley2007-748375-2007-06-11
Click to expand...

I didn't understand your point? Are you saying all encounters are fake? What's the point of randomly selecting alleged incident and equating it with other army operation?
 
berbatrick said:
i think every pm from nehru onwards has messed up the issue and we have no moral claim in the valley anymore. the original agreement was a referendum, pak broke it, but so did we. nehru arrested his own friend, the most popular mass leader in kashmir, for decades. IG rigged elections. all before the terrorism.

it doesn't matter if it's policy written down or not. rape and torture happened at a massive scale in kashmir, and we know for sure widespread rape happened in NE too, the other AFSPA region. we know that there have been many fake encounters long after the 90s too. at that scale, ordering it or allowing at are identical for people on the ground.

again, if this was any other country, you'd guess exactly what was happening if there was
1. army occupation of a border region
2. effective immunity for the army
Click to expand...

Army personnel come from the same society so allegations of rape and murder where you have impunity doesn't suprise me at all. I just don't agree on the scale of which it gets mentioned. A lot of allegations turn out to be untrue as well. It's not an institutional issue but something we should deal with much more severely.
I do agree AFSPA needs to go but we need to have proper system before that because we can't go back to 1990's state again.
 
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RedMachine03 said:




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So as per my understanding state government has to collect the ticket and pay the fare ( either collect fare or pay themselves. ) Tickets are not being sold.

So how does the report that Maharashtra, Rajasthan and Kerala are making people pay instead of paying the price themselves is untrue?

After Sonia Gandhi made it an issue and said they will pay the ticket fare which a lot of other states were already doing it, BJP reversed it and made it 85% subsidized from center to gain political points.
 
This is heartbreaking!

If the government for whatever reason can't reach these people then surely the locals can help?
 
pratyush_utd said:
So as per my understanding state government has to collect the ticket and pay the fare ( either collect fare or pay themselves. ) Tickets are not being sold.

So how does the report that Maharashtra, Rajasthan and Kerala are making people pay instead of paying the price themselves is untrue?

After Sonia Gandhi made it an issue and said they will pay the ticket fare which a lot of other states were already doing it, BJP reversed it and made it 85% subsidized from center to gain political points.
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