12 goals and 23 assists in 54 games in the first season. Kagawa is unproven mostly because he hasnt played in the right position or has been out.
If as has been rumoured Rooney wishes to leave United for Chelsea...
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
12 goals and 23 assists in 54 games in the first season. Kagawa is unproven mostly because he hasnt played in the right position or has been out.
Mata is a season ahead of Kagawa, by virtue of being here a season longer. Their first season in the Premier League were similar. If we can't take how Kagawa played in the Bundesliga into account then you can't take Matas second season into account, because Kagawa hasn't had a second season yet.
Random question. How many of you would take Mata over Kagawa right now?
Right now? Mata, probably. He's settled into English football and has had a couple of seasons behind him, one of which he was in the running for player of the year.
Kagawa is going to be a fantastic player for us though, and there isn't the huge gap between them as players that you're suggesting. And neither of them are as good as Rooney, which was the actual point of this thread.
Mata is better in the hole than Kagawa. Mata is also better on the wing than Kagawa. Its an easy one
No, Mata is a better winger but I would have Kag in the hole. Some of his performances for Dortmund were top drawer and he was settling in nicely last year.
Mata is the spanish Milner, there you go, I said it.
there's no way I would deal with Chelsea - They are too much of a rival and they'd have to give us Torres money to tempt me
If Spurs on the other hand offered a deal including Bale I'd be interested
Rooney will stay
If Spurs on the other hand offered a deal including Bale I'd be interested
Rooney will stay
Kagawa was injured you fecking Ihni binni dimi diniwiny anitaime. He didnt have the same run Mata had
"Similar"?!
Mata won player of the year in our European Cup winning season in his debut year at Chelsea. Kagawa wouldn't even have come close to winning your player of the year last season, I am absolutely sure.
Yeah, because we didn't finish sixth so our player of the year had to do a bit more to impress the fans and the players.
I would have both Kagawa and Mata playing behind RvP, with both of them interchanging. Our attack would be way more fluid compared to the current one.
I didn't see very much to impress from Kagawa last season. Granted he was injured and played out of position but I thought he was distinctly underwhelming, whilst I was chuffed with Mata's first year contribution.
All about opinions, though. I can't say I watched every game Kagawa played, but when I did he was impotent and didn't influence the game.
The rest of our players are better than yours. Your best player isn't as good as our best player (That sounds puerile, but that's pretty much how dick measuring contests go).
Besides that, I haven't denied that Mata is currently more effective than Kagawa, and therefore would be considered the "better player". There isn't the gulf between the two that you suggest, though. His performances in the Bundesliga were on a par with anything Mata has produced, and whether you care to undervalue the Bundesliga or not, they supplied the two finalists in this seasons Champions League final, one of whom Kagawa excelled for.
I don't agree, but that's opinions. I believe Ferguson did an extraordinary job to get performances out of that team greater than the sum of its parts - I personally feel that last season's United team were the weakest in years and punched well above their weight. The only obvious swap I would have is Van Persie/Rooney for Torres and maybe Carrick for Mikel.
No one is denying that Kagawa was shithot for Dortmund, but we haven't seen any of that in the Premier League yet - we have from Mata.
All hypothetical anyway, it's never going to happen.
You sound like a typical tabloid writer, underrating United at every turn.
Also, if those are the only swaps you'd make Chelsea must have signed a few world class centre backs I'm not aware of. Vidic and Ferdinand would both walk into your team. Our back-up central defenders are on a par with your starters. Further, you make that look as though only one of RVP/Rooney would play ahead of Torres. They'd both start for you, comfortably.
Maybe Carrick for Mikel? Just maybe, eh? It must be hard to take finishing so far behind a pretty shit team like United, what with all the players you have in all areas of your team who are vastly superior.
Maybe?
What about your defence? You'd rather have Sideshow, Cahill and Terry over Rio, Vida and Evans?
I wonder what the excuses of opposition fans would be if we win the title again this season. No Fergie to point fingers at to hide their own team's shortcomings.
Does that mean we can swap two rooneys for a shiney?
As long as it isn't a shiny Torres.
What about a club badge?
Not all vastly superior, but comparable. It's a young team and one in transition, but one that will rapidly improve with a world class manager at the helm.
If your defence is so good, why did you concede 4 more goals than us?
We conceded more because in the first half of the season when Vidic was injured, our defence was awful and we were conceding loads of goals. I'm fairly certain that our defensive record in the second half of the season was the best by far in the league.
Vidic, the best centre back in England and arguably in Europe, was injured for a substantial spell of the season. Comparable? Anyone is comparable, but the comparison doesn't favour Chelsea, particularly when you compare centre backs.
If your team/players are comparable to ours, why did you win 14 points less than us?
Mata over Kagawa? You cnuts, I look forward to bringing that one up in the future.
And no. Not in a million years would I ever swap Rooney for Mata. I wouldn't even consider it. Rooney in form is as important of a player as we've had over the last decade or so. I don't believe for one second that Mata could ever come in and do what Rooney does for the side. Sure, he could come in and offer something different, but that'd never make up for losing what Rooney offers.
And no. Not in a million years would I ever swap Rooney for Mata. I wouldn't even consider it. Rooney in form is as important of a player as we've had over the last decade or so. I don't believe for one second that Mata could ever come in and do what Rooney does for the side. Sure, he could come in and offer something different, but that'd never make up for losing what Rooney offers.
I'd actually b quite happy with that. I feel that Rooney has been getting steadily worse and that fact that he does not look after himself, or indeed put in the extra effort required to be truly great would suggest that he'll be a spend force in 2-3 years. Pace will go, fitness will suffer and that work rate everybody talks about will diminish. He's still got a couple of very good seasons in him yet and I think he'd certainly do some damage playing for an opposing PL team, but I'm more excited by Kagawa as a number 10 than trying to appease Rooney's desires.
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Out of idle curiosity what is that?
Last season we won the League with several games to go, with Rooney having his poorest season to date and not being one of our 6 or 7 most important players. Lets not delude ourselves that he's Messi.
And let's not delude ourselves that just because we're going through this shit of him apparently asking for a transfer, that he's suddenly not been one of our most important players (and to be perfectly honest, our most important player for most part) over his time under us.
As for what he offers. Tracks back, can play any midfield/attacking position on the pitch, covers a massive amount of ground and has a great engine (and don't let people fool you into thinking he hasn't), can score a top amount of goals and can lead a team. It's quite amazing that just because of this ridiculous saga and him not having a great season that people have suddenly forgotten how brilliant Rooney actually is.
That's nothing against Mata at all, he's clearly a quality player, but you're kidding yourself if you actually believe that Mata could come in and replicate what Rooney does for the team.
The point is he doesn't have to, how often do we replace like for like Keane to Carrick, Ronaldo to Valencia etc.......
You do realise the point of this entire topic is swapping Mata for Rooney?
As I've already said, Rooney is one of the most important players we've had over his period under us. I wouldn't ever be swapping him for somebody who isn't going to come in and offer something similar. And of course I also wouldn't be swapping him for somebody who isn't as good as him.
No I wasn't, You would have though someone might have mentioned it............you have missed my point, the player coming in to replace him doesn't have to be a carbon copy, every player has something unique to offer
I'd take Mata anytime. Not happy to swap him for one of ours though, particularly Rooney, but if Rooney wants to leave I'd consider it. (Providing Mata came with £20+ million of course).A little muppetry for Moyes Friday.
Please specify an additional cash sum if applicable.
