ICC World T20 2016

How bad does Samuels' innings look now?

Runs galore on this pitch yet he was backing away like a tail-ender on a classic WACA surface.
 
Think Dhoni narrowly avoided an awkward mini meltdown there. Looked like he was bristling a bit...confirmed by the slightly arrogant response about 120 seconds later.
 
Didn't expect India to lose, but that was some chase, helped by the most bizarre two non dismissals. Simmons had oodles of luck today. Made the most of it, to be fair.
 
Looking forward to the final, it's going to be a different match altogether because it's at Eden Gardens. That track has been turning all tournament and WI have struggled with that sort of pitch. I think that defending a decent total will be much more possible there.
 
Looking forward to the final, it's going to be a different match altogether because it's at Eden Gardens. That track has been turning all tournament and WI have struggled with those conditions. I think that defending a decent total will be much more possible there.
But on the other hand, they have Badree and Benn, so should be a good contest, although I feel England have technically better batsmen and that should be enough to lead them to victory
 
Looking forward to the final, it's going to be a different match altogether because it's at Eden Gardens. That track has been turning all tournament and WI have struggled with that sort of pitch. I think that defending a decent total will be much more possible there.

Badree and Benn shall be a handful and I maybe wrong here, but Moeen and Rashid don't have the variations to be a massive difference. IT should be a good game nonetheless.
 
Badree and Benn shall be a handful and I maybe wrong here, but Moeen and Rashid don't have the variations to be a massive difference. IT should be a good game nonetheless.

Rashid's got a whole bundle of tricks and Mooens a difficult customer. Could also drop Morgan for Dawson and strengthen the batting and bowling :nervous:
 
Rashid's got a whole bundle of tricks and Mooens a difficult customer. Could also drop Morgan for Dawson and strengthen the batting and bowling :nervous:

There's just no way Morgan is dropped for the finals.

I'm not sure I share your verdict on Rashid and Moeen. For what it's worth, difference in class between Rashid, Moeen and Benn is not that much. Badree could be difficult to get away with.
 
There's just no way Morgan is dropped for the finals.

I'm not sure I share your verdict on Rashid and Moeen. For what it's worth, difference in class between Rashid, Moeen and Benn is not that much. Badree could be difficult to get away with.

No, he -rightly- won't be.

I agree with you by the way (although I don't rate Benn at all), but if the pitch does do anything then Mooen and Rashid will be in the game, no doubt.
 
No, he -rightly- won't be.

I agree with you by the way (although I don't rate Benn at all), but if the pitch does do anything then Mooen and Rashid will be in the game, no doubt.
In all honesty, they're better than us in one regard, and that's one man. We get him early, batting first or second and we're favourites. Not huge favourites but he is the one player who can win this thing on his own and without him, we're marginally better.

EDIT - I realise this is nothing to do with anything you posted. Just fancied saying something vaguely positive, now the scary Indian fans have lost interest.
 
We need a better spinner in T20. Ashwin is dangerous when he gets turn but he is useless in flat pitches. Look at murali. Even in conditions that dont help spinners, he was rarely tonked. Same with vettori, narine and all. Evn badree today. This game and the Aussies game he was thrashed without turns. More than Pandya I blame Ashwin for today's loss. His no ball pretty much changed the game.
 
In all honesty, they're better than us in one regard, and that's one man. We get him early, batting first or second and we're favourites. Not huge favourites but he is the one player who can win this thing on his own and without him, we're marginally better.

EDIT - I realise this is nothing to do with anything you posted. Just fancied saying something vaguely positive, now the scary Indian fans have lost interest.

If pitch is spinning, I actually regard Eng as favourites despite WI having better spinners just because Eng has a batsmen who aren't overly reliant on slogs and charge up front and hit senselessly. WI will restrict you to a small total no doubt maybe 130-140 depending on the pitch but they will struggle to chase that down. We have seen that happen too often this WC
 
If pitch is spinning, I actually regard Eng as favourites despite WI having better spinners just because Eng has a batsmen who aren't overly reliant on slogs and charge up front and hit senselessly. WI will restrict you to a small total no doubt maybe 130-140 depending on the pitch but they will struggle to chase that down. We have seen that happen too often this WC
Our spinners are a bit dodgy, though. A guy who only decided he was a bowler a couple of years ago and a guy who is mainly used to remove tailenders, in county cricket.
 
We need a better spinner in T20. Ashwin is dangerous when he gets turn but he is useless in flat pitches. Look at murali. Even in conditions that dont help spinners, he was rarely tonked. Same with vettori, narine and all. Evn badree today. This game and the Aussies game he was thrashed without turns. More than Pandya I blame Ashwin for today's loss. His no ball pretty much changed the game.

not like you can wait to see how much the pitch turns and then swap him out if it doesn't..

Ashwin's a fine bowler.
 
Our spinners are a bit dodgy, though. A guy who only decided he was a bowler a couple of years ago and a guy who is mainly used to remove tailenders, in county cricket.
Yeah, but looking at WI's record vs SA and Afg, your spinners although are way worse than Tahir, they are better than Afghanistan spinner surely. Isn't it?
And even if they are worse, that would maybe cost you 10 runs at absolute maximum on a spinning track and your batsmen are technically pretty decent to handle those extra 10 runs
 
Rashid's getting a bit of a bum deal here, not a great tournament so far but he was probably the best spinner in the Big Bash.
 
Rashid's getting a bit of a bum deal here, not a great tournament so far but he was probably the best spinner in the Big Bash.
He was but that's one tournament. Lots of players have one good tournament. If the BB was a serious criteria it would be criminal that we'd overlooked Luke Wright, these last few years.
 
Weirdest bit of this discussion is that we're all in agreement that England actually can play spin half decently these days.
 
Weirdest bit of this discussion is that we're all in agreement that England actually can play spin half decently these days.

Watching Buttler in T20's and watching him try to play Lyon in the Ashes has me absolutely flummoxed to be honest.
 
He was but that's one tournament. Lots of players have one good tournament. If the BB was a serious criteria it would be criminal that we'd overlooked Luke Wright, these last few years.

Of course the Big Bash is a serious criteria, Wright could make a case for being in this team but with Roy and Hales our LO opening duo it would be pointless to have around lugging drinks. I've not seen Rashid too often in T20's but his record is not that bad at all.
 
Watching Buttler in T20's and watching him try to play Lyon in the Ashes has me absolutely flummoxed to be honest.
He's bottled test cricket. I suspect, partly, because of the pressure on his keeping. It's harder to play good shots when you know that even if you do make fifty you're gonna be judged for missing a stumping (which he should be, he's shite at keeping).
 
He's bottled test cricket. I suspect, partly, because of the pressure on his keeping. It's harder to play good shots when you know that even if you do make fifty you're gonna be judged for missing a stumping (which he should be, he's shite at keeping).

Yeah I agree, if Bairstow and Stokes do what they can do there's no real need for Buttler in tests, it's just stark what a clear mindset can do for a batsman.
 
If pitch is spinning, I actually regard Eng as favourites despite WI having better spinners just because Eng has a batsmen who aren't overly reliant on slogs and charge up front and hit senselessly. WI will restrict you to a small total no doubt maybe 130-140 depending on the pitch but they will struggle to chase that down. We have seen that happen too often this WC

It's absolutely imperative that England puts a strong total on board. 130/140 would take a lot of pressure off Windies and they'll feel confident of getting the runs even if Gayle gets out. Let me just stop speculating here. England are a good team, WI are too. We'll see who wins.
 
He's bottled test cricket. I suspect, partly, because of the pressure on his keeping. It's harder to play good shots when you know that even if you do make fifty you're gonna be judged for missing a stumping (which he should be, he's shite at keeping).

Don't agree, just don't think he has a solid enough defensive technique to be successful in Test Cricket at this point in time.
 
Don't agree, just don't think he has a solid enough defensive technique to be successful in Test Cricket at this point in time.

I'm not sure if he's ever really going to develop that and if anything I think he muddles himself up by trying to pace his innings in Tests. His First Class vs. List A records tell the same story his Test vs. LO records do. When he bats positively with clarity he scores runs and he scores them quickly, when he tries to knuckle down he loses rhythm and gets out cheaply, he's better off just embracing what he's good at and developing some knack of leaving balls. We'll see how he does up at Lancs this year.
 
Sort of... but if he just played his shots he's capable of averaging a brisk 35 and that is more than handy.

Maybe, but how quickly would he be dropped after he holes out to long on with England batting out to save a test?

There's a place for a natural stroke maker like him in the side, but it has to be allied with a defensive technique and temperament too. You don't see AB getting quick fire 20s and going 'its the way I play lol'. Hell even Gayle and McCullum were able to temper their natural games (Gayle has 2 test triple centuries ffs :lol:)
 
I'm not sure if he's ever really going to develop that and if anything I think he muddles himself up by trying to pace his innings in Tests. His First Class vs. List A records tell the same story his Test vs. LO records do. When he bats positively with clarity he scores runs and he scores them quickly, when he tries to knuckle down he loses rhythm and gets out cheaply, he's better off just embracing what he's good at and developing some knack of leaving balls. We'll see how he does up at Lancs this year.

I'm not saying he should try and become a blocker, or curb his natural instincts completely, just that I think he's technically deficient attempting to defend the moving ball on or just outside off stump. Somewhat ironically given it was the Ashes tests of that summer that did for him, I thought he spent the first half of the summer proving that he had the temperament for Test Cricket against NZ.

If he wants to, he can crack Test Cricket, of that I have no doubt, but its whether he wants to or not or is content to be a LO biffer and doing IPL stints.