ICC World T20 2016

[Samid]

Can't believe Steyn's T20 economy is 6.8. He seems to get murdered every time I see him in this format.

 

[NK86]

Ok Sharjah was great but that was only a triangular trophy - were there many more?

I know conditions, fielding restrictions and generally poor bowling quality favours batsmen today but the stats are overwhelmingly in Kohli's favour:

So Bevan is the best ever?

 

[MJJ]

So Bevan is the best ever?

See the title of the graph, you wont get many arguing against bevan being the best chaser ever.

 

[NK86]

Well thats the key thing isn't it. Historically.

Pitches in NZ and Aus are absolutely nothing like how they were 5-10 years ago. More often than not test matches there are played on absolute roads. Sure, you might get more bounce than elsewhere in Australia, and that can unsettle batsmen, but theres a reason that Australia are absolutely obsessed with 150+kph bowlers these days, theres simply nothing in the pitches for anyone else.

The pitches in SA were once really difficult to bat on. There was a reason why we saw sub-100 scores there quite often in Test matches as well.

There was this innings Sachin played along with Azhar that helped India perform well in a Test match there. Though we went on to lose the match, only Sachin and Azhar looked like they had a clue of how to face Donald and co. Those are the kind of innings which will etch in a fans' mind forever.

Kohli is fantastic but for me he is not as good in Tests in really testing conditions so far. He is the best chaser in T20s now for sure but not better than Sachin in the overall context.

 

[NK86]

See the title of the graph, you wont get many arguing against bevan being the best chaser ever.

Bevan was a fantastic chaser. However he came lower down when the ball was not doing much and to be frank that Australian side is one of the greatest ever in cricket. Bevan would come in and then score 30-40 not outs so many times that his average really boosted because of it.

There is a reason why Bevan never really did much in Test matches though. He was just not good enough. He was a very busy batsman who would score of almost every ball but he is not even a top 10 batsman of his time. My point was that stats don't point the total picture.

 

[prath92]

So that would mean that he's alaso better than Sir Viv too then?

i think Sir Viv himself said "Kohli is as good as me and reminds me of myself". IVA richards seems to be a huge Kohli fan too.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

My point was that stats don't point the total picture.

You should account for change in era's and the way game is played. Bevan was brilliant in doing what needed to be done at that time same as Dhoni does it in current era. You don't need stats to prove Bevan was one of the greatest finishers of ODI.

 

[MJJ]

Bevan was a fantastic chaser. However he came lower down when the ball was not doing much and to be frank that Australian side is one of the greatest ever in cricket. Bevan would come in and then score 30-40 not outs so many times that his average really boosted because of it.

There is a reason why Bevan never really did much in Test matches though. He was just not good enough. He was a very busy batsman who would score of almost every ball but he is not even a top 10 batsman of his time. My point was that stats don't point the total picture.

Isnt that what that graph is showing? Its all about run chases and how good each batsman was. Not their overall quality, its close between kohli and bevan. Kohli bats at three which is more impressive but bevan did it on harder pitches against better bowlers so evens out a bit.

 

[Akshay]

Bevan would come in and then score 30-40 not outs so many times that his average really boosted because of it.

Yup. Why average is not the most useful stat for limited overs cricket.

 

[MDFC Manager]

SA spinning rings around SL batsmen. Now we've seen it all!

 

[Samid]

 

[Norris]

Bevan for me is the greatest chaser of all time. He did it basically with duds like Warne, Gillespie, Lee at the other end. How many times have we seen an Australian team be 7 or 8 down and still win a game. As good as Dhoni and Kohli are, I think they both need reasonably good support at the other end. There is no way I see Kohli and Dhoni manage that if they batting alongside Ishant or Nehra.

 

[Akshay]

Bevan for me is the greatest chaser of all time. He did it basically with duds like Warne, Gillespie, Lee at the other end. How many times have we seen an Australian team be 7 or 8 down and still win a game. As good as Dhoni and Kohli are, I think they both need reasonably good support at the other end. There is no way I see Kohli and Dhoni manage that if they batting alongside Ishant or Nehra.

Nah, Dhoni has won ODIs singlehandedly with brainless batting at the other end. He's also very good at farming the strike to protect a weaker partner. Bevan is definitely in the same class, though, top player.

 

[prath92]

So Kohli isnt a top test player because he didnt play well in that one series against England but Joe Root is already good even though he has played 50% of his games at home and is poor in Australia, who have arguably the best bowlers? Root is a good player but this is stupid. Plus he has played 5 games there, in a series where 3 players played well (rahane, vijay and MS- maybe binny if you push it). There is nothing to suggest that Kohli wont perform well there next tour. If anything, he will be determined to perform there more than anywhere else, going by his grit shown already. He already has 11 centuries (in what 5 years?), 8 of them outside India. Its not like completely flopped in Tests like Bevan and all did.

Anyway this is imo going to be the new Sachin v Lara debate where Lara was clearly the better test player but overall Sachin is better.

 

[prath92]

Bevan for me is the greatest chaser of all time. He did it basically with duds like Warne, Gillespie, Lee at the other end. How many times have we seen an Australian team be 7 or 8 down and still win a game. As good as Dhoni and Kohli are, I think they both need reasonably good support at the other end. There is no way I see Kohli and Dhoni manage that if they batting alongside Ishant or Nehra.

thats because none of gillespie warne bichel and all were duds in batting. They could easily score 20-30 runs . Nehra and all are like walking wickets. Plus MS has won many games for us. I can only remember the game last october vs SA when we were 150/7 and dhoni took us to 250 with harbhajan and all and we ended up winning by 20 runs.

 

[Norris]

Nah, Dhoni has won ODIs singlehandedly with brainless batting at the other end. He's also very good at farming the strike to protect a weaker partner. Bevan is definitely in the same class, though, top player.

Yeah, but when you look at the sheer number of times either of them had to do it with absolute tail enders, I think Bevan comes out on top. I actually don't remember too many times Dhoni had to do that.

 

[Norris]

thats because none of gillespie warne bichel and all were duds in batting. They could easily score 20-30 runs . Nehra and all are like walking wickets. Plus MS has won many games for us. I can only remember the game last october vs SA when we were 150/7 and dhoni took us to 250 with harbhajan and all and we ended up winning by 20 runs.

That's true enough. I am not saying MS isn't good with the tail, he's fantastic as well, but Bevan probably just slightly nicks it for me.

 

[NK86]

Isnt that what that graph is showing? Its all about run chases and how good each batsman was. Not their overall quality, its close between kohli and bevan. Kohli bats at three which is more impressive but bevan did it on harder pitches against better bowlers so evens out a bit.

That graph was really useless in that case as we were discussing whether Virat is better than Sachin now as a batsman. As for Bevan, he was really good as a finisher and there is no doubt but that is not what I was discussing.

 

[Nighteyes]

Bevan is not really comparable to Kohli. Dhoni is a better comparison in that both are good at chasing down score when the runs required isn't all that high.

Kohli is a better overall batsman than both.

 

[NK86]

Bevan for me is the greatest chaser of all time. He did it basically with duds like Warne, Gillespie, Lee at the other end. How many times have we seen an Australian team be 7 or 8 down and still win a game. As good as Dhoni and Kohli are, I think they both need reasonably good support at the other end. There is no way I see Kohli and Dhoni manage that if they batting alongside Ishant or Nehra.

Duds like Warne and Lee as compared to the brilliant Sreesanth, Zaheer Khan and Ishant Sharma whose support Dhoni had? For the record, I will choose Dhoni over Bevan every day because Bevan won't win me many matches with 10/over required for the last 10 overs. That is before I compare Dhoni's excellent performance as a batsman in Test cricket. He literally saved us a Test match at Lords all by himself.

 

[NK86]

Bevan is not really comparable to Kohli. Dhoni is a better comparison in that both are good at chasing down score when the runs required isn't all that high.

Kohli is a better overall batsman than both.

You are really forgetting some brilliant chases by Dhoni if you think he has not chased down big scores for us. We have to remember that we are not seeing the peak Dhoni now. At his peak, he would chase down big runrates very quickly.

 

[Nighteyes]

You are really forgetting some brilliant chases by Dhoni if you think he has not chased down big scores for us. We have to remember that we are not seeing the peak Dhoni now. At his peak, he would chase down big runrates very quickly.

I'm not forgetting anything.

Kohli has done it far more consistently than Dhoni ever did even at his peak. This guy has chased down 300+ scores multiple times with minimal effort.

 

[prath92]

I'm not forgetting anything.

Kohli has done it far more consistently than Dhoni ever did even at his peak. This guy has chased down 300+ scores multiple times with minimal effort.

I like Kohli but thats not true. Dhoni did it at least a 100 times in ODI,T20I,IPL, even Tests. The guy knew how to bat in a chase and when to accelerate

Spoiler: Dhoni best finishes

 

[Skills]

Sri Lanka are the new bangladesh

 

[Nighteyes]

I like Kohli but thats not true. Dhoni did it at least a 100 times in ODI,T20I,IPL, even Tests. The guy knew how to bat in a chase and when to accelerate

He hasn't done it anywhere near as much as Kohli in internationals when it comes to chasing big scores so I'm not sure what's not true. He quite simply hasn't.

 

[Samid]

That's the worst LBW decision ever.

 

[NK86]

I'm not forgetting anything.

Kohli has done it far more consistently than Dhoni ever did even at his peak. This guy has chased down 300+ scores multiple times with minimal effort.

Kohli may be a better batsman but Dhoni in his peak was absolutely thumping bowlers and leading us to wins continuously, especially in ODIs. I will still not forget that 186 where he murdered Sri Lanka.

 

[NK86]

He hasn't done it anywhere near as much as Kohli in internationals when it comes to chasing big scores so I'm not sure what's not true. He quite simply hasn't.

Dhoni has done it plenty of times in internationals.

 

[Nighteyes]

Kohli may be a better batsman but Dhoni in his peak was absolutely thumping bowlers and leading us to wins continuously, especially in ODIs. I will still not forget that 186 where he murdered Sri Lanka.

That's your memory playing up I'm afraid.

He was good but never as good or as consistent a match winner as Kohli.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

He hasn't done it anywhere near as much as Kohli in internationals when it comes to chasing big scores so I'm not sure what's not true. He quite simply hasn't.

Off the top my head - WC Final
The 2005 series against Pakistan, he finished off many times with Yuvi.
A few years back in the final of a triangular series against WI and SL with Ishant.
Against Australia at Adelaide in 2011/12.

 

[Nighteyes]

Off the top my head - WC Final
The 2005 series against Pakistan, he finished off many times with Yuvi.
A few years back in the final of a triangular series against WI and SL with Ishant.
Against Australia at Adelaide in 2011/12.

Never said he's not done it but if you lineup Kohli's chases then you realize how often he's done it.

Anyway must be embarrassing for Srilanka to finish behind Afghanistan.

 

[Red Devil 26]

Never said he's not done it but if you lineup Kohli's chases then you realize how often he's done it.

Anyway must be embarrassing for Srilanka to finish behind Afghanistan.

That would have occurred if South Africa knocked off the runs in 15 overs. Embarrassing tournament nonetheless.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Never said he's not done it but if you lineup Kohli's chases then you realize how often he's done it.

Anyway must be embarrassing for Srilanka to finish behind Afghanistan.

Not sure what this is about. I support India.

 

[Nighteyes]

That would have occurred if South Africa knocked off the runs in 15 overs. Embarrassing tournament nonetheless.

Just realized that.

Serious worry for Srilanka though. A side that lacks talent throughout except Herath and mathews.

Not sure what this is about. I support India.

Was about today's game!

 

[MDFC Manager]

Never said he's not done it but if you lineup Kohli's chases then you realize how often he's done it.

Anyway must be embarrassing for Srilanka to finish behind Afghanistan.

@Santiago_KinderBueno

 

[Samid]

Amla finally turning up in a game at a world event. In a dead rubber. Shocker.

 

[Nighteyes]

Sounds like SA are starting to pity themselves. Faf saying I don't know what we have to do. Not a great attitude to have

 

[Samid]

Sounds like SA are starting to pity themselves. Faf saying I don't know what we have to do. Not a great attitude to have

They are Arsenal of cricket. Bashing teams all year around but go missing when it really matter. Should give Wenger a call and pity each other.

 

[Moonred]

Pretty poor tournament for South Africa. I have had a soft corner for them right back from the abomination of 92 WC. But these days, I just find them too soft.

 

[Santiago_KinderBueno]

Pretty poor tournament for South Africa. I have had a soft corner for them right back from the abomination of 92 WC. But these days, I just find them too soft.

Used to bowl like Lance klusner myself