Hypothetical Question: Mourinho or Pep as United Manager?

[sammsky1]

its going to be such a dam hard job, whoever comes in. Ferguson has basically built an empire with loads of varying systems throughout the structure of the club that has created a huge amount of success. For any guy new to the club, bloody hell is there going to be a steep learing curve just to get his head around it all. You kind of need someone of the same ilk as Fergie...and even though many poopoo the idea, Moyes is a very plausible candidate. He really knows the permier league on a difficult level, is obviously a dam good motivator and not a bad tactician at all.

Plus he's scottish, so the players will continue not to understand a word the united manager says....which has actually worked quite well up to now...

It's a big job sure, but let's put it into perspective please.

Manchester United is a only 500 million pound, single site, single core competency organisation. It's systems, processes and ways of doing things are top of its industry and it's history means that it has a very credible voice within inter industry dealings. Plus the incumbent leader, SAF, will clearly leave behind a young, world class and vibrant squad, most whom are imbedded with the clubs values as well as a very well drilled support staff and industry leading facilities. The new man initially just needs to be as good as his immediate past to succeed.

There are far tougher jobs in the world which have so much more complexity and require so many more skills and competences: a new CEO at a FTSE or fortune 500 corporation, ESP if that person has not come through the ranks of that corporation and so whose appointment as boss is a much tougher assignment. As is any ministerial role in any government or public institution and that's before one considers functional lead jobs within medicine, the law etc.

Yes the fact that I am measuring the United role within this set shows its a top job ... But likewise, there are many many success stories in the above of people who inherited a legacy and went on to improve things further.

Our board are as forward thinking and strategic as they come and the consistency in terms of personnel planning can be instantly seen in our player acquisition strategy. We don't do panic hires and generally speaking people stay a long time (Phelen, McClair etc!).

I'm sure even more diligence will be applied to the lucky man who takes over from SAF. He just needs our full support.

 

[Cantona07]

Pep for me. In terms of style of play, developing youngsters, attitude, presence he is the man. Would be perfect for United. He would slot right in.

Mourinho on the other hand is a fantastic manager. Brilliant with players but I never like his attitude. Would be more of a distraction with his media antics than anything else.

 

[Stretch]

To me the solution is to have a 'buffer' manager before we get a more long term manager. That's why Mourinho makes sense. I think we need someone who will ensure we don't backwards quickly and someone who's not scared of the legacy of SAF. A strong willed character. JM ticks those boxes. He can leave within 3 years for someone who will take it further long term. It will 'soften' the blow if you like.

 

[apotheosis]

To me the solution is to have a 'buffer' manager before we get a more long term manager. That's why Mourinho makes sense. I think we need someone who will ensure we don't backwards quickly and someone who's not scared of the legacy of SAF. A strong willed character. JM ticks those boxes. He can leave within 3 years for someone who will take it further long term. It will 'soften' the blow if you like.

Yes but what will be left of us once he has gone? Look at Inter. He bled them dry to get success, and once it was achieved off he fecked off for patures new without even second thought!

Good manager without question, but i wouldn't want him here!

 

[Jaz]

Anyone considered Benitez? Managed a lot of big clubs, won the CL. Could be a cheap option for us because we probably can't afford Pep or Mou.
Will anyone bite?

 

[RedRover]

Pep for me. In terms of style of play, developing youngsters, attitude, presence he is the man. Would be perfect for United. He would slot right in.

Mourinho on the other hand is a fantastic manager. Brilliant with players but I never like his attitude. Would be more of a distraction with his media antics than anything else.

For me Pep is unproven outside of the "comfort" of Barca, and I'm not sure what he'd do elsewhere.

He had a system which produced players capable of stepping into the first team year on year, a great system in which all teams seem to play the same style from a young age.

He also had one of the greatest teams ever to play the game, with a number of world class players playing at their peak.

He achieved a lot - but once things got really tough, and Real Madrid closed the gap, the pressure seemed to get to him and he walked away. That to me would be a concern. He seems like a nice guy, and not the kind to live only to be involved in football - unlike Fergie, and to an extent Mourinho, who seem far more obsessed.

Jose may not be to everyone's taste but he's got a track record of proven success in various leagues time and again. For me he edges it.

 

[RedRover]

Yes but what will be left of us once he has gone? Look at Inter. He bled them dry to get success, and once it was achieved off he fecked off for patures new without even second thought!

Good manager without question, but i wouldn't want him here!

Rubbish.

He achieved great things with a side which became a lot more than the sum of its parts and overachieved. He got huge money for Ibrahimovic and replaced him for peanuts - then won the league and European Cup.

Sneijder could have made them a fortune too if they's had a mind to sell him a season or so ago.

He's then gone onto Real Madrid and transformed them into arguably the best side in the world - adding a fair few young players to the team who could be there for years.

 

[Snow]

Yes but what will be left of us once he has gone? Look at Inter. He bled them dry to get success, and once it was achieved off he fecked off for patures new without even second thought!

Good manager without question, but i wouldn't want him here!

How did he bleed them try? Inter has been spending money for a long time. The manager that took over from Mourinho had the same squad. Hell, they even brought in players like Forlan in with no avail.

Porto has done fine after he left. Chelsea are still spending as ever but not as big of a threat for the PL.

 

[finneh]

It has to be Mourinho. The only valid reason for not wanting him is if you don't like his personality or his style of Football; the former of which Ferguson is similarly difficult to like (for fans of other clubs); and the latter of which I'm sure his Football style at Real Madrid shows he's not a solely defensive manager, but one whom employs the best tactics given the situation and players at his disposal.

I also believe given what he has said that his last club managerial job will be at a Premier League team and there is no bigger club here than United.

 

[That'sHernandez]

Anyone considered Benitez? Managed a lot of big clubs, won the CL. Could be a cheap option for us because we probably can't afford Pep or Mou.
Will anyone bite?

Good shout mate. Not only that but the lads on RAWK would probably organise a mass suicide outside Anfield. He's worth talking to I reckon, just to see the RAWK response.
I bit.

 

[apotheosis]

How did he bleed them try? Inter has been spending money for a long time. The manager that took over from Mourinho had the same squad. Hell, they even brought in players like Forlan in with no avail.

Porto has done fine after he left. Chelsea are still spending as ever but not as big of a threat for the PL.

That is because the Inter squad was finished, it had just achieved it's greatest ever season, there was only one way to go after that. It was an old squad when he had it, and he added yet more age to it and geared it up for one last hurrah, which i admit he did brilliantly.

I just don't see how that fits in with anything we do. We do everything completely in contrast to Mourinho. We set foundations for the future, he thinks only of this season.

For me getting Mourinho in here after Fergie, is basically a choice between SAF's long term foundations, and Jose's short term plan. There is no middle ground, one or the other, you cannot possibly have both.

So do we want to go 'all in' for another all out assault on the treble, and then have probably years of nothing? Or do we want to stick with the ideals which have provided sustained success over 2 decades? I know where i stand.

 

[apotheosis]

Rubbish.

He achieved great things with a side which became a lot more than the sum of its parts and overachieved. He got huge money for Ibrahimovic and replaced him for peanuts - then won the league and European Cup.

Sneijder could have made them a fortune too if they's had a mind to sell him a season or so ago.

He's then gone onto Real Madrid and transformed them into arguably the best side in the world - adding a fair few young players to the team who could be there for years.

Im not questioning his acheivements am i? I am saying i don't like his short term methodology. It doesn't fit with what we do, and i don't like what happens to other clubs he has managed once he leaves. He gets the players and fans on side, but usually at the expense of the owner, and he uses the media to manipulate opinion to get more of what he wants.

So no i don't like him, or the way he works. For me Jose is the choice of the trophy whore! Anyone who wants him thinks more of bragging rights than they do of our club.

He is perfect for Madrid or even City. The more desperate for success you are as a club, the more his philosphies and methods will suit your needs. For me i will never be desperate enough to want a man like Mourinho anywhere near our club. I would much prefer someone who knows what we are about, and will simply continue the philosophies and the foundations SAF has painstakingly built over 2 decades.

 

[UnitedRoadRed]

Im not questioning his acheivements am i? I am saying i don't like his short term methodology. It doesn't fit with what we do, and i don't like what happens to other clubs he has managed once he leaves. He gets the players and fans on side, but usually at the expense of the owner, and he uses the media to manipulate opinion to get more of what he wants.

So no i don't like him, or the way he works. For me Jose is the choice of the trophy whore! Anyone who wants him thinks more of bragging rights than they do of our club.

He is perfect for Madrid or even City. The more desperate for success you are as a club, the more his philosphies and methods will suit your needs. For me i will never be desperate enough to want a man like Mourinho anywhere near our club. I would much prefer someone who knows what we are about, and will simply continue the philosophies and the foundations SAF has painstakingly built over 2 decades.

He could easily be another Cantona - finally finds his spiritual home here. We're a club big enough for his ego and he'd have enough years in him to try and outdo SAF. IF he can achieve that, we'll have a lot of happy reds about.

 

[RedRover]

Im not questioning his acheivements am i? I am saying i don't like his short term methodology. It doesn't fit with what we do, and i don't like what happens to other clubs he has managed once he leaves. He gets the players and fans on side, but usually at the expense of the owner, and he uses the media to manipulate opinion to get more of what he wants.

So no i don't like him, or the way he works. For me Jose is the choice of the trophy whore! Anyone who wants him thinks more of bragging rights than they do of our club.

He is perfect for Madrid or even City. The more desperate for success you are as a club, the more his philosphies and methods will suit your needs. For me i will never be desperate enough to want a man like Mourinho anywhere near our club. I would much prefer someone who knows what we are about, and will simply continue the philosophies and the foundations SAF has painstakingly built over 2 decades.

Presumably by "short term methedology" you mean coming in and instantly bringing success?

I cant see how he can be criticised - he left Porto for a bigger club after performing the miracle of winning the CL, he then got sacked from Chelsea. At Inter he again performed miracles and then left to take arguably the biggest job in world football, having achieved all he could with an ageing Inter side.

If he comes to United he will do so knowing that he could be there seriously long term. He wants to come back to the PL, as he's repeatedly said, and after he already managed in Italy and Spain where else would he go? Its clear he would never be offered the Barca job, being largely despised and not one of their own. Fact is if he comes to United, anywhere else would be a step down, so no reason to think he won't stay long term.

As for your "philosiphies and foundations" bollocks its plenty clear to me what United is about under Fergie - success and winning things, year after year. Fergie has built five or so teams over the time he's been at United, being ruthless and not at all sentimental in moving club legends on when they're past it.

Guardiola may be considered one of the greats, but to me he's yet to prove it. Mourinho on the other hand is a proven winner, a little difficult and not always well liked, with a huge personality and ego - just like Sir Alex.

 

[Stretch]

That is because the Inter squad was finished, it had just achieved it's greatest ever season, there was only one way to go after that. It was an old squad when he had it, and he added yet more age to it and geared it up for one last hurrah, which i admit he did brilliantly.

I just don't see how that fits in with anything we do. We do everything completely in contrast to Mourinho. We set foundations for the future, he thinks only of this season.

For me getting Mourinho in here after Fergie, is basically a choice between SAF's long term foundations, and Jose's short term plan. There is no middle ground, one or the other, you cannot possibly have both.

So do we want to go 'all in' for another all out assault on the treble, and then have probably years of nothing? Or do we want to stick with the ideals which have provided sustained success over 2 decades? I know where i stand.

But that was my point, have someone successful enough and astute enough to come in short term and buffer the impact for a longer term replacement. I just don't see how many other managers will be able to cope with the legacy of SAF immediately after his retirement. We also need someone to ensure we don't have a mass exodus of players which is a possibility.

Further to that, Mourinho didn't ruin Inter, Inter's executives did and the Moratti family wanted to win the UCL at all costs. Mourinho got the best out of an under-performing bunch of older players. He did nothing wrong at Inter. Also his best buys in the transfer market have been some astute signings withouth necessarily breaking the bank. I think he'd be perfect for a temporary buffer to let the worst of SAF's retirement fade away before we get in a longer term replacement.

And it's just my opinion anyway.

PS: I don't think Mourinho will 'undo' the systems at United, he certainly didn't at Porto and Chelsea, Inter and Real haven't had well oiled systems anyway.

 

[apotheosis]

He could easily be another Cantona - finally finds his spiritual home here. We're a club big enough for his ego and he'd have enough years in him to try and outdo SAF. IF he can achieve that, we'll have a lot of happy reds about.

Wishful thinking in my view!

 

[apotheosis]

Presumably by "short term methedology" you mean coming in and instantly bringing success?

Spending bucketloads on established players geared towards one or 2 seasons of success, and no plans in place for afterwards. Short term methodology. You make it sound like the end justifies the means. That is where we differ.

I cant see how he can be criticised - he left Porto for a bigger club after performing the miracle of winning the CL, he then got sacked from Chelsea. At Inter he again performed miracles and then left to take arguably the biggest job in world football, having achieved all he could with an ageing Inter side.

You can't see how he can be criticised? I'll leave that hanging in the air!

If he comes to United he will do so knowing that he could be there seriously long term. He wants to come back to the PL, as he's repeatedly said, and after he already managed in Italy and Spain where else would he go? Its clear he would never be offered the Barca job, being largely despised and not one of their own. Fact is if he comes to United, anywhere else would be a step down, so no reason to think he won't stay long term.

The facts are that Mourinho will go anywhere that has enough money to enable him to win. What makes you think he will stay anywhere for any length of time? That isn't how he works, so no point pretending it may be that way with us. City and PSG are far more likely destinations for him, WHEN he leaves Madrid.

As for your "philosiphies and foundations" bollocks its plenty clear to me what United is about under Fergie - success and winning things, year after year. Fergie has built five or so teams over the time he's been at United, being ruthless and not at all sentimental in moving club legends on when they're past it.

Not that clear at all apparently, to you at least, if that's what you think SAF and Utd are about. No mention for young players schooled the Utd way in a youth system that goes back to the days of Sir Matt. Players with some affiliation with the City they represent. Playing and winning in style.

It's called class. Surprising but quite telling, that you fail to acknowledge that hugely significant difference between the 2 managers. Preferring instead to highlight the less commendable parts of SAf's persona in an effort to champion a man who is classless by any definition.

 

[anything about now]

What philosphy?? What system?? We've not had a proper midfield since Keano left. SAF's refusal to sign a proper midfielder has already changed us and our ways. Ronaldo's brilliance papered over the cracks for awhile but now that he's gone we are struggling again.

 

[Adebesi]

The facts are that Mourinho will go anywhere that has enough money to enable him to win. What makes you think he will stay anywhere for any length of time? That isn't how he works, so no point pretending it may be that way with us.

Agree with this. At one point I imagine Mourinho will decide he has won everything there is to win in Europe, declare himself the undisputed greatest manager of all time and feck off to the MLS or China for silly money.

 

[apotheosis]

But that was my point, have someone successful enough and astute enough to come in short term and buffer the impact for a longer term replacement. I just don't see how many other managers will be able to cope with the legacy of SAF immediately after his retirement. We also need someone to ensure we don't have a mass exodus of players which is a possibility.

Why won't they cope? What makes you think Mourinho will cope? He has never had to follow anyone successful before! He takes the truly desperate for success and offers them his services. Let's say he comes in and is successful, who then will follow him? Especially considering if he does win with us, he will have probably spent all our money and left us with an old ageing team!

Further to that, Mourinho didn't ruin Inter, Inter's executives did and the Moratti family wanted to win the UCL at all costs. Mourinho got the best out of an under-performing bunch of older players. He did nothing wrong at Inter. Also his best buys in the transfer market have been some astute signings withouth necessarily breaking the bank. I think he'd be perfect for a temporary buffer to let the worst of SAF's retirement fade away before we get in a longer term replacement.

If they wanted to win the CL so bad, why did they not give him the funds in his first season? They were knocked out by Utd that year, and i seem to remember Jose cribbing in the media as usual afterwards saying he needed to spend to get success. Which they did.

PS: I don't think Mourinho will 'undo' the systems at United, he certainly didn't at Porto and Chelsea, Inter and Real haven't had well oiled systems anyway.

What makes you think that? I think he will do whatever is required to maintain his legacy. From poking eyes to baseless conspiracies, to turning fans against their owners through the use of the media. He has done all that and more, why not again? Bear in mind the more pressure Mourinho is under to deliver, the worse his antics become. We saw that last year with Barca. He was more than willing to drag Spanish football and the reputations of both clubs through the mud, so long as it helped his cause.

Is that what we want with City?

As i said to Rover, i am not questioning his ability, but personally i don't like the way he goes about his job. Far too much unsavoury press, far too many confrontations, just far too much bullshit and baggage. We have won trophies for years without Jose, using SAF's methods that are still in place. We don't need him to win more.

 

[apotheosis]

What philosphy?? What system?? We've not had a proper midfield since Keano left. SAF's refusal to sign a proper midfielder has already changed us and our ways. Ronaldo's brilliance papered over the cracks for awhile but now that he's gone we are struggling again.

You can have your gripes about midfield. I will join you in them, but don't resort to pretending we have no values or philosophies that define our club, just because you didn't get the midfielder you want. That is a disgrace tbh.

 

[anything about now]

Footballing philosophy, not values. Tinkering, playing players out of position, that sort of stuff. I've always held Fergie in higher regard than the club itself when it comes to values, even though he kind of sided with the Glazers, but there ya go.

 

[apotheosis]

Footballing philosophy, not values. Tinkering, playing players out of position, that sort of stuff. I've always held Fergie in higher regard than the club itself when it comes to values, even though he kind of sided with the Glazers, but there ya go.

Tinkering is an indulgence though not a philosophy. But i get your meaning at least now. I just didn't get it in the context of the posts prior to it.

 

[Stretch]

Why won't they cope? What makes you think Mourinho will cope? He has never had to follow anyone successful before! He takes the truly desperate for success and offers them his services. Let's say he comes in and is successful, who then will follow him? Especially considering if he does win with us, he will have probably spent all our money and left us with an old ageing team!



If they wanted to win the CL so bad, why did they not give him the funds in his first season? They were knocked out by Utd that year, and i seem to remember Jose cribbing in the media as usual afterwards saying he needed to spend to get success. Which they did.



What makes you think that? I think he will do whatever is required to maintain his legacy. From poking eyes to baseless conspiracies, to turning fans against their owners through the use of the media. He has done all that and more, why not again? Bear in mind the more pressure Mourinho is under to deliver, the worse his antics become. We saw that last year with Barca. He was more than willing to drag Spanish football and the reputations of both clubs through the mud, so long as it helped his cause.

Is that what we want with City?

As i said to Rover, i am not questioning his ability, but personally i don't like the way he goes about his job. Far too much unsavoury press, far too many confrontations, just far too much bullshit and baggage. We have won trophies for years without Jose, using SAF's methods that are still in place. We don't need him to win more.

I don't want to continue this ad infinitum so will leave it there. I just completely disagree with you on so many levels.

 

[Hallucinogen]

I expect Jose to go to United in a few years and don't have any expectation he joins us again.

But if there is one thing that Jose has repeatedly said since the day he left that he would come back to Chelsea again one day.

And he reiterated it once again in an interview on 20 August to some DJ spoony.

Spoiler

SPOONY: 'Would you go back to Chelsea?'
MOURINHO: 'I will go where people really want me. But I have to repeat always this: I'm with Real Madrid, I very much want to be, I have a new contract, I'm not thinking about leaving.
The day I leave is when I want to go. But yes, I want to go back one day, that's for sure.'

Still I feel its probably going to be United.

 

[Sky1981]

Why won't they cope? What makes you think Mourinho will cope? He has never had to follow anyone successful before! He takes the truly desperate for success and offers them his services. Let's say he comes in and is successful, who then will follow him? Especially considering if he does win with us, he will have probably spent all our money and left us with an old ageing team!



If they wanted to win the CL so bad, why did they not give him the funds in his first season? They were knocked out by Utd that year, and i seem to remember Jose cribbing in the media as usual afterwards saying he needed to spend to get success. Which they did.



What makes you think that? I think he will do whatever is required to maintain his legacy. From poking eyes to baseless conspiracies, to turning fans against their owners through the use of the media. He has done all that and more, why not again? Bear in mind the more pressure Mourinho is under to deliver, the worse his antics become. We saw that last year with Barca. He was more than willing to drag Spanish football and the reputations of both clubs through the mud, so long as it helped his cause.

Is that what we want with City?

As i said to Rover, i am not questioning his ability, but personally i don't like the way he goes about his job. Far too much unsavoury press, far too many confrontations, just far too much bullshit and baggage. We have won trophies for years without Jose, using SAF's methods that are still in place. We don't need him to win more.

When the legend (SAF) retires, vultures will be circling around United, looking for paybacks, journos and media will shred whomever the next manager to pieces, MOYES? He had never been scrutinised in Everton, it's his kingdom there, but if he succeed SAF, the media will love to see him fail.

Moyes, AVB (pfftt... don't make me laugh), Blanc, et al

They're not strong enough to handle the media.

Pep can't even fecking had the guts to finish what he started and feck off after 4 years citing he needs a break, you want that quiter in Old Trafford?

Post SAF is war, it's a defining moment for the next 25 years, any feck ups will lead us the same path as the scouse with their Souness.

Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Sky1981]

Bollocks about youth and attacking football. That comes in excess baggage

We love Fergie because he wins things, let's not fool ourself. He wouldn't be the man we respect so much if he don't win things.

If Jose comes and win, he will ultimately gains his respect, if Pep comes and acting all class and stuff and lose, he's still a loser.

It's all about winning, class comes second. Like it or hate it. You can afford to be classy when you're winning, not when you're losing.

 

[1999united2008]

Mourinho, easily, Pep threw his toys out the pram last season with Barca and has no track record outside of Barcelona.

 

[Denis' cuff]

did Jose spend much at Inter?

I don't know - I just hask

 

[apotheosis]

Be careful what you wish for.

You too! Because in my view the pressure to win will be greater on Mourinho than anyone else. To a man like Jose, the greater the pressure the worse he becomes, just look at his early antics at Madrid.

We have seen how Mourinho reacts to failure, he lashes out at everyone he sees as a threat to his success. I just don't believe it will be the joyous trophy laden journey you and others wish it to be.

I think he will struggle without a huge amount of money to spend, and the pressure of not getting what he wants will force him to resort to any means necessary. I get the feeling it could end in tears all round, just as it did at Chelsea.

Even if Jose wins with us. What next Sky? Who will follow Mourinho? What will be the next step in this 25 yr legacy you claim Mourinho's appointment will determine?

 

[RedRover]

Spending bucketloads on established players geared towards one or 2 seasons of success, and no plans in place for afterwards. Short term methodology. You make it sound like the end justifies the means. That is where we differ.



You can't see how he can be criticised? I'll leave that hanging in the air!



The facts are that Mourinho will go anywhere that has enough money to enable him to win. What makes you think he will stay anywhere for any length of time? That isn't how he works, so no point pretending it may be that way with us. City and PSG are far more likely destinations for him, WHEN he leaves Madrid.



Not that clear at all apparently, to you at least, if that's what you think SAF and Utd are about. No mention for young players schooled the Utd way in a youth system that goes back to the days of Sir Matt. Players with some affiliation with the City they represent. Playing and winning in style.

It's called class. Surprising but quite telling, that you fail to acknowledge that hugely significant difference between the 2 managers. Preferring instead to highlight the less commendable parts of SAf's persona in an effort to champion a man who is classless by any definition.

Your highlighted comments have no basis in fact.

Mourinho came into Chelsea and bought the likes of Cech, Essien and Drogba. He also improved John Terry and instigated a system which allowed Frank Lampard to become one of the few genuine 20 goal a season midfielders in the top leagues in Europe.

This team formed the basis for his success - and that of Grant (CL final lost on penalities and 2nd place in the league), Ancellotti, Hiddink and Di Matteo. Anything but "short term", and the likes of Cech, Drogba and Essien were outstanding player over that period.

At Inter he took an average side and with a few additions (a mid 20's Sneijder - a bargain at the price) and tactical nouse he won the CL. How key he was is clear from their results since leaving.

At Real Madrid he's spent money on young players, often at bargain prices (Ozil and Khedira spring to mind) and created, over a few seasons a team which not only dethroned Pep's "best side the world has ever seen" in the league, but who play great football and have a nucleus of top players which could last for years.

As for Pep - one job at Barca with a team of world class players at their peak, and who exist in a system where by they are already educated in the style of play. He didn't have to build a side, it was already there. he also wasted a fair bit of money as well - Chagrynski and Ibrihimovic in particular.

He achieved a lot, that can't be taken away - but despite that, as soon as the pressure increased and Real were breathing down their necks he's off for a "rest".

Every job Mourinho has taken has been at a bigger club - other than Inter after his virtual sacking at Chelsea. He has made it pretty clear he wants to be back in the PL shortly, and the job at United is the biggest in football. I see no reason why he wouldn't relish the challenge of following Fergie.

As for all your "united way" guff you're talking out of your arse. Fergie is beloved by United fans but hated by most other football fans - firstly because he's succesful, but also because of his often tiresome mind games, berrating of officials and regular strops. The word "class" is not one that would spring to the mouths of other fans in the game.

The bottom line is that once Fergie leaves the club faces an impossible task in filling his boots, thats obvious - but Mourinho is the most talented repalcement out there, with a proven track record of success at the very highest level - success that will be key in winning trophies and therefore being able to continue to service the debts. He's no angel, but neither is Fergie, and it seems (if you believe what you hear) Fergie has nothing but respect for him.

As I said, Pep may become a great, but he needs to do a damn site more than he's done so far. I for one think he's most likely the one who would take a job for the money - strongly linked to a job in Qatar, especially since he was one of their "ambassadors" for the World Cup bid. Very cosy indeed.

 

[Comsmit]

Mourinho, easily, Pep threw his toys out the pram last season with Barca and has no track record outside of Barcelona.

It's a pretty fecking good track record with Barca though isn't it? Ferguson had no track record outside of Scotland when he was appointed. Mourinho was managing solely in Portugal before Chelsea took him on. I don't get this track record bollocks that I keep seeing. Guardiola won 13 trophies in 4 years with Barca, revolutionising the club and enriching football as a whole. All the while being pretty damn humble about his achievements.

But hey he hasn't got a track record outside of Barcelona so he obviously won't be right for United. Ok then.

 

[OGkush]

Whichever of the two we'd get (not saying we will) we should be damn happy about it. Both are top managers and although both would have enormous preasure I think they'd cope with it better than any other manager, and even though losing Fergie will be the biggest loss this club has took, think about it from a positive side, atleast we'll be rid of Phelan as well.

 

[Comsmit]

As for Pep - one job at Barca with a team of world class players at their peak, and who exist in a system where by they are already educated in the style of play. He didn't have to build a side, it was already there. he also wasted a fair bit of money as well - Chagrynski and Ibrihimovic in particular.

He achieved a lot, that can't be taken away - but despite that, as soon as the pressure increased and Real were breathing down their necks he's off for a "rest".

As I said, Pep may become a great, but he needs to do a damn site more than he's done so far. I for one think he's most likely the one who would take a job for the money - strongly linked to a job in Qatar, especially since he was one of their "ambassadors" for the World Cup bid. Very cosy indeed.

You obviously have little respect for Guardiola judging by the way you gloss over his achievements. For a start the first point is complete rubbish as he more than anyone was instrumental in building the Barcelona side we have witnessed evolving over the past four years. He completely overhauled the youth setup which has allowed youngsters from La Masia a seamless transition into the first team. His ideas have been implemented since 2007 and 13 trophies in 4 years are the fruits of his labour. Barcelona played a different brand of football before he took over, and one that was not ultimately proving successful in the long term.

As for "he didn't have to build a side" well that is fecking absurd. In his first season he had to cull players such as Deco and Ronaldinho while Eto'o followed the season after. He started integrating more youth players while bringing in varying players that fit into his system. He built a brilliant side over the course of 3 years, one that has been the dominant force in European club football. Players such as Dani Alves, David Villa, Mascherano, Alexis and Fabregas have all been bought in at great expense. They have complimented youth products such as Busquets, Pedro, Bojan etc.

As for the last bit get a grip. You think Pep would be the only great manager to take a job for a massive paycheck? Look at Ancelotti, Capello, Mourinho, Mancini. You think the massive salaries don't play a part in their decision? Who really cares?

 

[RedRover]

You obviously have little respect for Guardiola judging by the way you gloss over his achievements. For a start the first point is complete rubbish as he more than anyone was instrumental in building the Barcelona side we have witnessed evolving over the past four years. He completely overhauled the youth setup which has allowed youngsters from La Masia a seamless transition into the first team. His ideas have been implemented since 2007 and 13 trophies in 4 years are the fruits of his labour. Barcelona played a different brand of football before he took over, and one that was not ultimately proving successful in the long term.

As for "he didn't have to build a side" well that is fecking absurd. In his first season he had to cull players such as Deco and Ronaldinho while Eto'o followed the season after. He started integrating more youth players while bringing in varying players that fit into his system. He built a brilliant side over the course of 3 years, one that has been the dominant force in European club football. Players such as Dani Alves, David Villa, Mascherano, Alexis and Fabregas have all been bought in at great expense. They have complimented youth products such as Busquets, Pedro, Bojan etc.

As for the last bit get a grip. You think Pep would be the only great manager to take a job for a massive paycheck? Look at Ancelotti, Capello, Mourinho, Mancini. You think the massive salaries don't play a part in their decision? Who really cares?

I have respect for what he achieved - but its all about comparisons and levels. He took over at a Barca in a slight decline, but with some of the best players in the world in their respective positions. He changed nothing radically, his man management was very good and they reaped the rewards - fair play to him.

To me though the system at Barca is the key - producing top players year on year who play the same tactical systems for an early age as per Cruyff's long term vision. The Manager plays a part but is not there to build a team or change anything, simply to make it "cohesive". An example of this is them now giving the job to his assistant - who will continue in the same vein, building on managers past.

He did well to get rid of dead wood, and he integrated other players into those positions. Again, fair play to him for that but for me that's something you'd expect any decent manager to do, although I think moving Eto'o on for Ibrahimovic was a serious misjudgment.

Tactically I also think the jury is still out. The likes of Sanchez and Fabregas may be great players - but has "integrating" them into the side improved the team? The results last season cast doubt on that. My personal opinion is that while he did well at Barca, the building blocks were there and other top managers could have had similar success. I don't think this is neccessarily the case with what Jose did at Chelsea, Inter or (to a lesser extent and in light of how strong Barca are) Real Madrid.

The biggest detraction for me is though the fact that he walked away on a low, and to me it raises questions about his temprament and ability to handle (or even desire to put himself into) pressure situations.

As for the money issue, yours is the exact point I was trying to make - in response to a suggestion that Mourinho would go "anywhere for money".

 

[paceme]

That is because the Inter squad was finished, it had just achieved it's greatest ever season, there was only one way to go after that. It was an old squad when he had it, and he added yet more age to it and geared it up for one last hurrah, which i admit he did brilliantly.

I just don't see how that fits in with anything we do. We do everything completely in contrast to Mourinho. We set foundations for the future, he thinks only of this season.

For me getting Mourinho in here after Fergie, is basically a choice between SAF's long term foundations, and Jose's short term plan. There is no middle ground, one or the other, you cannot possibly have both.

So do we want to go 'all in' for another all out assault on the treble, and then have probably years of nothing? Or do we want to stick with the ideals which have provided sustained success over 2 decades? I know where i stand.

You don't win the treble then just become shit in the space of one pre season. It's a fecking retarded point of view.

Mourinho at Madrid has brought Ozil, Varene, Sahin and Coentro, all young talented players who will be there for years, he built a Chelsea squad that has been one of the top clubs in England for almost a decade and Porto didn't collapse when he left them either.

All the stuff about Mourinho winning stuff then getting bored of the club is rubbish too. He left Porto for a club who are much bigger and much more powerful. He left Chelsea because he was pushed out, not because he wanted to. He left Inter because the biggest club in the world offered him a job.

 

[Theon]

Mourinho at Madrid has brought Ozil, Varene, Sahin and Coentro, all young talented players who will be there for years, he built a Chelsea squad that has been one of the top clubs in England for almost a decade and Porto didn't collapse when he left them either.

And grossly underused both of them. His record at bringing through youth is poor. Compared to someone like Pep it's a joke.

 

[paceme]

And grossly underused both of them. His record at bringing through youth is poor. Compared to someone like Pep it's a joke.

He has never really stayed anywhere long enough to bring through players, but you can't hold that against him, so far Chelsea was the only club where he would have stayed longer if it had been down to him.

Sahin was injured for half of last season anyway and in the middle of a title race as tight as last seasons he couldn't risk changing a winning combination just so Sahin can get some minutes. He has let him go on loan now anyway.

I doubt Varane is ready to play in the first team, I would of thought he would go on loan this season but then you would think Macheda would go on loan this season too, sometimes it doesn't work out.

 

[RedRover]

He has never really stayed anywhere long enough to bring through players, but you can't hold that against him, so far Chelsea was the only club where he would have stayed longer if it had been down to him.

Sahin was injured for half of last season anyway and in the middle of a title race as tight as last seasons he couldn't risk changing a winning combination just so Sahin can get some minutes. He has let him go on loan now anyway.

I doubt Varane is ready to play in the first team, I would of thought he would go on loan this season but then you would think Macheda would go on loan this season too, sometimes it doesn't work out.

The viewpoint regarding "young players" and Mourinho is a bit of an odd one for me.

The young players have to be good enough to compete, and not just crowbarred into the side when you have better players around. How many youth players at Cheslea made the grade? - None, but neither did any of them go on to do anything else anywhere.

At Inter he tried with Ballotelli but he was a nuisance.

Maybe pep is better ant bringing through young players - but is a damn site easier when you have La Masia at your disposal and three or four top class products come through a year.

 

[apotheosis]

You don't win the treble then just become shit in the space of one pre season. It's a fecking retarded point of view.

Mourinho at Madrid has brought Ozil, Varene, Sahin and Coentro, all young talented players who will be there for years, he built a Chelsea squad that has been one of the top clubs in England for almost a decade and Porto didn't collapse when he left them either.

All the stuff about Mourinho winning stuff then getting bored of the club is rubbish too. He left Porto for a club who are much bigger and much more powerful. He left Chelsea because he was pushed out, not because he wanted to. He left Inter because the biggest club in the world offered him a job.

Where did i say he was shit? Just show it to me, and i will hold my hands up to having a retarded view.

What i find retarded is people who cannot read a few lines of text and understand the words.

What i have said repeatedly is that i do not like Mourinho, nor his antics. I don't believe his management style is good for our club and i don't want him anywhere near our club personally. But never once have i dismissed his quality as a coach, only as a man, he is classless imo.