Henderson should be our #1

I hope he can find a club that can give him regular game time as he's falling down the pecking order behind Pickford, Ramsdale and Pope for England.

Leicester or Newcastle might be looking for goalies this summer.
 
Longshanks said:
De gea does what de gea does today, stays on his line and makes some decent saves. He is very good at it, its a shame he does literally nothing proactive to stop attacks.

Death, taxes and the defensive line dropping to deep with de gea in nets are the only gaurentees in life.
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So we are giving away the ball in stupid positions and our defensive deficiency is down to De Gea?
 
Lyng said:
Absolutely. The post claiming Henderson is worse than Pickford is insane.
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Why? Tell me why and based on what you can say that it is insane.
Pickford is no1 in England. Hendo is 4th or 5th. And by Pickford's performances in England's shirt, he deserves to be no1.
Pickford is for years good PL gk. Not great gk but good gk.
What did Henderson do last 5 years? 2 seasons in SU where he played under deep defence which makes gks job easier. And except that?


Henderson case is a typical situation here on Caf. Player who doesn't play is twice better than he is in reality. And for me that is insane.
 
LARulz said:
So we are giving away the ball in stupid positions and our defensive deficiency is down to De Gea?
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Pay attention. Yes, it is down to Dave. Apparently, Henderson is a defensive coach too. With him on goal, opposition don't create chances. Awb would be better in positioning, Lindelof stronger, Maguire faster and smarter, Mct would be new Kante etc....
Who would know that gk can do all that, eh?
 
Longshanks said:
De gea does what de gea does today, stays on his line and makes some decent saves. He is very good at it, its a shame he does literally nothing proactive to stop attacks.

Death, taxes and the defensive line dropping to deep with de gea in nets are the only gaurentees in life.
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Could have sworn he claimed about 3 corners today and swept a couple of times. But oh well, it couldn't have happened because he does literally nothing proactive.
 
gerdm07 said:
What else would he say at this point?
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He could take an Ole line and say we have two top top GKs at our club at the moment and then he would phone Tom and Lee and hope he has not offended them.
 
Red Shorts said:
National team coaches are obvious idiots then for not giving Henderson 40 odd caps.
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But they are and Southgate is terrible. Imagine having this talented English side and have them play "Drillobold"

Pickford always has a massive blunder / drop in him.
 
berbatrick said:
Could have sworn he claimed about 3 corners today and swept a couple of times. But oh well, it couldn't have happened because he does literally nothing proactive.
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In fairness, this was a massive departure from his norm. I'm a massive critic of his because of his tendency to stick to his line, particularly given how RR wants us to play we cannot continue to see the DDG we have seen over the past couple of years - and I include this season in that. He is definitely more comfortable on his line and needs encouragement to come and deal with crosses into the box and sweep behind the defence so we can play a higher line and while he was much improved at Norwich in both of those aspects, a lot of this did come in the second half after Maguire and in particular Ronaldo went to him on separate occasions and told him he needed to come and claim balls into the box (off the top of my head he came and caught two crosses in a row after Ronaldo had spoke to him). It was encouraging to see and is a big help for the defence.
 
I disagree with the notion of the thread title, largely in part due to Henderson not being that great with distribution. He does come off his line well, but I have noticed (to my surprise) that De Gea has been much better at positioning himself so that he can stifle some attacks behind our defence. What neither of them have is the ability to find a quality pass under pressure, by which I mean the likes of what Ederson will play where he has limited options but selects a pass that allows the team to retain possession. When De Gea or Henderson are under pressure and have no outball, their kicks upfield are rather aimless and effectively we just turn possession over.

De Gea, whilst in great form, doesn't have what it takes to be a more "modern" goalkeeper which I think we have seen the benefits of. His main job is obviously to prevent goals, but most of the games we play we should dominate possession and the goalkeeper should ALWAYS be available as an option to pass to for our defenders, so I can't help but wonder what it might be like to have one that can actually start a counter attack with his feet. It would be a new weapon for us for sure.
 
Whatever happens one of them will be gone next season at least. Henderson as it stands won't want to sit on the bench again and De Gea won't accept being left on the bench either. Our new manager in the summer might want to go a different route and bring his own keeper in.
 
I think Henderson will be gone next season, he won't have a chance to really show what he can do this season and won't want yet another season on the bench when he can probably be in the first team at a mid-table club at the very least. I think that if we get a progressive manager coming in they'll still look to phase out De Gea for a keeper who can do things other than shot-stopping to at least an average level. I just don't think they'll drop De Gea on day 1 so that won't be a quick enough turn around for Henderson to stick around.
 
wolvored said:
Whatever happens one of them will be gone next season at least. Henderson as it stands won't want to sit on the bench again and De Gea won't accept being left on the bench either. Our new manager in the summer might want to go a different route and bring his own keeper in.
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Yes agreed. Henderson will be thinking he’s already had one good full season (loan) and then he did really well (bar one game) when he came in for DDG. Our defensive stats all improved and we looked less susceptible to simple balls over the top. He’s not even that young anymore.

I thought this thread might be less polarised than others but it seems there are a lot of fans who are really against Henderson being given a chance. I can’t tell if it’s basically all based on the Pool game or if it’s because there’s a fundamental lack of seeing the bigger picture when looking at a football game: DDG makes great saves therefore he’s a great keeper, Maguire is great on the air and strong in the tackle, he must be a top CB, Bruno gets loss of assists therefore let’s compare him to KBD…

We know DDG cannot play in a high press, high line defence. We also know that is what RR wants us to play. I don’t see the point in pretending there’s a chance he suddenly completely changes his game so its either DDG until summer and a new signing (if RR doesn’t rate Henderson) or, knowing DDG is not a long term solution, Henderson until summer and then buy a new GK if he’s not fulfilled expectations. Either way I don’t really see how DDG is here next season and that’s not even going into his wages.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I can’t tell if it’s basically all based on the Pool game or if it’s because there’s a fundamental lack of seeing the bigger picture when looking at a football game: DDG makes great saves therefore he’s a great keeper,
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Think that's it. I've said it before that a lot of his saves are avoidable if he'd just claim a high ball or positioned himself higher to sweep better. That diving save he made from the header in Saturday is a good example, he should be out catching that ball and relieving pressure. Instead they win a header and the save is made and it keeps the pressure on the defence.

You'll see that Salah goal mentioned over and over but all the ones DDG flapped at or threw in for the last 3 years are conveniently forgotten, Barcelona / Everton are two that stick out.
 
Oranges038 said:
Think that's it. I've said it before that a lot of his saves are avoidable if he'd just claim a high ball or positioned himself higher to sweep better. That diving save he made from the header in Saturday is a good example, he should be out catching that ball and relieving pressure. Instead they win a header and the save is made and it keeps the pressure on the defence.

You'll see that Salah goal mentioned over and over but all the ones DDG flapped at or threw in for the last 3 years are conveniently forgotten, Barcelona / Everton are two that stick out.
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How exactly he can catch that cross, ffs?
 
Andycoleno9 said:
How exactly he can catch that cross, ffs?
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The diving save to his right, yeah?

It's quite simple really, the ball was floated in from about 50 yards away on the wing, he starts about 3 or 4 yards off his line, runs out, jumps and catches the ball before anyone can win a header.
 
No way should Henderson be our number one choice!
 
Henderson should be someone elses nr 1. De Gea is much better keeper and seems very confident at the moment.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Yes agreed. Henderson will be thinking he’s already had one good full season (loan) and then he did really well (bar one game) when he came in for DDG. Our defensive stats all improved and we looked less susceptible to simple balls over the top. He’s not even that young anymore.

I thought this thread might be less polarised than others but it seems there are a lot of fans who are really against Henderson being given a chance. I can’t tell if it’s basically all based on the Pool game or if it’s because there’s a fundamental lack of seeing the bigger picture when looking at a football game: DDG makes great saves therefore he’s a great keeper, Maguire is great on the air and strong in the tackle, he must be a top CB, Bruno gets loss of assists therefore let’s compare him to KBD…

We know DDG cannot play in a high press, high line defence. We also know that is what RR wants us to play. I don’t see the point in pretending there’s a chance he suddenly completely changes his game so its either DDG until summer and a new signing (if RR doesn’t rate Henderson) or, knowing DDG is not a long term solution, Henderson until summer and then buy a new GK if he’s not fulfilled expectations. Either way I don’t really see how DDG is here next season and that’s not even going into his wages.
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You just answered yourself. It's hard for us to replace him because we can't shift him on due to his high wages.
 
If he couldnt be the no 1 under Ole, he can't now under Ralf. Simples.
 
elmo said:
You just answered yourself. It's hard for us to replace him because we can't shift him on due to his high wages.
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I don’t think RR will care though and he’s apparently got control. Whilst we as fans focus on the style and are tentatively excited (I’d say that’s fair for how the caf feels) RR is also a Glazer wet dream, his commercialisation/modernisation/innovationis all about value creation. Whilst he won’t be selling highly rated youngsters to the same degree (we’ll want to keep them!), it’s logical to think the older players getting mega bucks deals days are over.

Ronaldo, Cavani, Pogba, DDG are on absolute monster deals, I think all are gone in the summer or next season absolute latest for DDG.
 
I thought this thread was resuscitated from when De Gea was kinda bad. But from Saturday, it's weird as hell.
 
Ish said:
As far as opinions go, that's not "that" insane though, is it? Not that I share that opinion necessarily, but yeah...not as insane as some (one?) proclaiming Grealish the next Ronaldinho :lol:
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Well true but that's surely not something anyone has posted here?? (I hope) :nervous:
 
DeGea needed to work on his penalty saving which he seemed to have done this season. His kicking out isn't the best but he is miles better than Henderson.

Henderson is a very good goal keeper but not on the level of big Dave. I can't be the only one who gets heart palpitations when Henderson pulls his flappy bird impressions in the box.
 
Lyng said:
Well true but that's surely not something anyone has posted here?? (I hope) :nervous:
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Aargh, you’re in for a treat. I’ll try and find the post for you later, but someone did say it. In the grealish thread - think his transfer thread before he moved to city or even the city thread.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
I don’t think RR will care though and he’s apparently got control. Whilst we as fans focus on the style and are tentatively excited (I’d say that’s fair for how the caf feels) RR is also a Glazer wet dream, his commercialisation/modernisation/innovationis all about value creation. Whilst he won’t be selling highly rated youngsters to the same degree (we’ll want to keep them!), it’s logical to think the older players getting mega bucks deals days are over.

Ronaldo, Cavani, Pogba, DDG are on absolute monster deals, I think all are gone in the summer or next season absolute latest for DDG.
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It's easier said than done. It's not like they'll accept taking a paycut just to move elsewhere
 
elmo said:
It's easier said than done. It's not like they'll accept taking a paycut just to move elsewhere
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Depends. If any player in that bracket is deemed surplus, we've already shown we're happy to foot some of the wages like with Sanchez. He's on 375k reportedly p/w though which limits us somewhat :eek:
 
De Gea is the best shot-stopper I've ever seen. Most of the premier league goalies are all going to be able to save most of the routine shots, they are mostly going to be able to distribute the ball fairly well, and it is small margins that separate them. But for those at the top, what separates an exceptional keeper from a world class one (in my view) is their ability to make saves that seem impossible when you see them in real time, like your brain has already ruled that the shot is a goal -- when suddenly it's not. You see the replay and somehow De Gea has contorted himself and gotten a fingertip or a toe to something that looked all but certain to score.

I don't think anyone makes as many of those types of saves as he does, and when they replay the saves, De Gea has good positioning to start with, so it's not that he was in a bad position and had to react to save his own mistake; he's generally great at positioning and still manages to make these insane saves. He is all quite good with his distribution and good with the ball at his feet.

Henderson is also a very good keeper but he's a rung or two below De Gea. Barthez, Howard, Carroll, were also good but not great (enough) keepers who made some great saves and were mostly well-liked. Even Howard was player of the season before being dropped, so I guess that speaks to people's preference for certain playing styles over others.

DeGea's form dipped but he has corrected whatever was affecting him and I think he's back to his best. His best is beyond what Henderson can do or will do, so DeGea stays #1.
 
Lyng said:
Absolutely. The post claiming Henderson is worse than Pickford is insane.
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Who is the first-pick for the English national team again? Pickford is good shotstopper and a nutcase, Henderson is a nobody. Perhaps time to get a loan in the Championship to save his career. Right now there are probably no Premier League-clubs that would swap theirs for Henderson and really benefiting, if at all. Let’s stop pretending every youth player at United is great, from Elanga to Laird, odds are they will never play a lot in the Premier League, they’re most likely at Brandon Williams’ level. Where’s Blackett these days?
 
I know over the time they’ve both been in the team DeGea has probably had more clangers but to be honest I feel safe with DeGea and last game he was coming out, claiming things and taking control of his area. Something he certainly needs to build on.

However when I watch Henderson he looks like an accident waiting to happen so calamitous when he comes charging out. Like he is trying to do too much or is overly keen to be sweeper keeper. I just don’t have the trust or faith in him.
 
Andersons Dietician said:
I know over the time they’ve both been in the team DeGea has probably had more clangers but to be honest I feel safe with DeGea and last game he was coming out, claiming things and taking control of his area. Something he certainly needs to build on.

However when I watch Henderson he looks like an accident waiting to happen so calamitous when he comes charging out. Like he is trying to do too much or is overly keen to be sweeper keeper. I just don’t have the trust or faith in him.
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For me Henderson is one of those traditional keepers that tend to get better with age and experience.

We are not really in the best state as a club to let him go through that - so we go for the most experienced one we already have in De Gea even if he will never be a more well rounded keeper like Henderson.

De gea has been in great form this season - but to me this is always when the rest of the team is playing shit.

When the rest of the outfield are playing well with high hopes - it's normally De Gea that looks like a dissapointment in the way he plays.

For me it just says alot. That De Gea is great when we don't have the control of the match and we need a reactive goalkeeper - whilst when we do have control of the match more often than not- we need a more proactive one.
 
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