Im very anti DDG as our future keeper but until we can get a basic grasp of this system, we might as well keep him in goal. I do think Henderson would have saved that Almiron shot (I actually think most PL keepers would have watching it back) but our CB pair look so ropey and without AWB are getting next to no protection so maybe we just accept his shortcomings and when we’re playing better then think about using Henderson or signing a new keeper.
Henderson should be our #1
- Thread starter gerdm07
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Oh come on, they weren't hard saves.
I swear, DDG makes a few regulation saves and posters wet themselves and post how world class he is.
The stats I saw were that the ASM and Almiron chances alone had a combined PSxG of 1.65.
Would be interested to see if other outlets have similar numbers but I'm quite sure most goalkeepers would have expected to concede at least once from yesterday's supposedly not-hard saves.
Blinkers on
That’s probably all from the ASM chance to be fair which was a very standard save because he fluffed a chance from 1 yard out. I do think most keepers make the Almiron save though, watch it back and it’s not properly in the corner - good save and DDG doing what he does best but neither were him in De God mode.
There's still a big argument that we should have a better all-round keeper than De Gea, I am pretty sure it's not Henderson though after he completely failed to look remotely up to the task in the run of games he had last season.
Why are we saying Henderson should be number one ? Because he’s already here is a bad reason. The Manchester United number one should be one of the top goal keepers in the world and not just chosen because they came through our academy. If he was good enough then he would force his way in but he can’t even though De Gea isn’t as good as he once was.
Despite having little playing time and it being quite well reported that he isn’t happy being a number 2, I haven’t even seen a slight rumour of any clubs circling for him.
sounds like I’m hating on him a bit but I do think he’s a great keeper and I understand if he doesn’t want to stick around being number 2. I would be delighted if he does stay but it would also be a good move for both parties if we could get good money for him to raise funds for a De Gea replacement.
Despite having little playing time and it being quite well reported that he isn’t happy being a number 2, I haven’t even seen a slight rumour of any clubs circling for him.
sounds like I’m hating on him a bit but I do think he’s a great keeper and I understand if he doesn’t want to stick around being number 2. I would be delighted if he does stay but it would also be a good move for both parties if we could get good money for him to raise funds for a De Gea replacement.
This was post-shot xG though. In other words already taking into account that ASM scuffed the finish.
DDG is on massive wages and his value is only going to start dropping. The guy's 31 and his command of the box has barely improved in recent years. Whilst his reactions are still good, they'll be the first thing that goes. When they do, it'll leave him with nothing to lean back on.
From a purely business point of view, this is the moment we'll look back on and say 'we should have sold him then'.
Henderson has a lot of qualities that seem to suit Rangnick's style. Even if he doesn't turn out to be world class, he's at least young enough to retain his market value for a few more years.
I think the sensible thing to do is to sell DDG for a decent fee, and give Henderson a chance to prove himself as a sweeper keeper. Then if he can't make the grade, sell him as well and buy someone else.
This is the Rooney moment in Moyes' first season. By failing to sell when we could, we ended up keeping him beyond the point he was productive and his huge salary meant the manager was forced to play him every week to justify it to the board.
From a purely business point of view, this is the moment we'll look back on and say 'we should have sold him then'.
Henderson has a lot of qualities that seem to suit Rangnick's style. Even if he doesn't turn out to be world class, he's at least young enough to retain his market value for a few more years.
I think the sensible thing to do is to sell DDG for a decent fee, and give Henderson a chance to prove himself as a sweeper keeper. Then if he can't make the grade, sell him as well and buy someone else.
This is the Rooney moment in Moyes' first season. By failing to sell when we could, we ended up keeping him beyond the point he was productive and his huge salary meant the manager was forced to play him every week to justify it to the board.
I rate xG but that’s ridiculously high, it has to be about the location of the ASM chance.
Other sites may attach different values but I suspect that ASM chance was harder to save than it looked based on the scuffed finish. Looking at it again (1.06 in the below video) De Gea still has to shift his weight and do a rather awkward looking in-place dive to get his hand down to it.
Yeah, let's sell our best GK in some misguided light of the younger GK we have on our books who will fill his shoes despite showing feck all during his time here. And, if he doesn't then sell him too. Nothing on what would happen to the team if a GK isn't good enough? Some of the guff which gets written on here.
De Gea is back to his best, and he's been worth us 4 points in last 2 matches alone. Statistically he's been the best GK in the Premier League and 31 is not old for a Goalkeeper at all. Folks need to step out of this British/Youth/Academy obsession. If there's one person who we should be cashing out on while his market value is somewhat high, is Henderson not de Gea.
If you're desperate for someone non-Brisitsh, buy somebody else with our infinite transfer budget. Or else keep DDG with our infinite wage budget. I don't know why you'd bring nationality into it anyway. If it helps, imagine that Henderson is from Portugal or something.
Keepers often get better as they get older. But that's usually the cerebral types who command the box and organise the backline. The ones who rely on youthful athletecism are the first to suffer.
Is this still a thing? Because right now DeGea is single handedly stopping us from getting our arses handed to us by bottom of the league teams.
Nationality nor the age of the player matters to me, quality does. And, Henderson is nowhere near de Geas quality. If De Gea was still performing like last season, then by all means go ahead and get rid. But, he's been putting in the work this season. It's mental to think he is a problem and requires selling.
And, 31 is no age for his athleticism to suddenly disappear. His reflexes are still sharp as ever, once they start to dwindle then we should re-evaluate whether it's time to sell. Right now, he's been our best player this season.
Oh I’m not saying it was piss easy but I do think he should save both. Almiron one was much harder though in my opinion.
If that was true, you wouldn't have brought it up.
Athleticism does suddenly disappear in your 30s. The fact that 31 is 'no age' is the entire point. His transfer value is currently still big enough to justify another club being willing to pay his wages. Wait too much longer and it won't be
DeGea for me every time. He’s bailed us out so many times this season.
It doesn't to me. But, for many it does. That's why they bleat about playing youth and signing/playing British players.
At the moment, his athleticism is fine. Players after 30s start losing their transfer value, should we start selling all of them? Why don't other clubs do it? What are you even trying to say, sell players in 30s to preserve their market value while completely ignoring how crucial they are to the XI at the moment?
You are having a mare, just leave it.
I like to occasionally view this thread for a good laugh, it never disappoints. If we had CBs ahead of DeGea who were with their salt and fullbacks who didn’t go missing, this talk of DeGea needing to be a sweeper keeper /auxiliary CB would die the death it deserves. We let in so many goals because our defenders are bad. Replacing our outstanding keeper with one of lesser quality isn’t going to suddenly make players like Maguire look world class.
Of course he should be. All the stats last season prove he is a better fit for the team overall. He also forces the team higher, higher turnovers turn into goal chances quicker.
Most people seem to have forgotten that De Gea had a 3 season slump where he cost so many goals. But bang on about Henderson and the Salah goal in a game that was already done. Even this season despite his saves, he has still cost goals, with Arsenal being the absolute worst goal I've ever seen any keeper concede at any level.
DDG making the odd decent save has blinded many to the glaying negative aspects of his game. Despite that he still concedes more than a goal a game, and his actual performance level aren't that much better than last year.
Most people seem to have forgotten that De Gea had a 3 season slump where he cost so many goals. But bang on about Henderson and the Salah goal in a game that was already done. Even this season despite his saves, he has still cost goals, with Arsenal being the absolute worst goal I've ever seen any keeper concede at any level.
DDG making the odd decent save has blinded many to the glaying negative aspects of his game. Despite that he still concedes more than a goal a game, and his actual performance level aren't that much better than last year.
Some do. Some also sell players in the late 20s. Chelsea and City have been great at it. Their constant inflow of transfer money gives them more to spend on replacements.
I used to like United's policy under Fergie of rewarding loyalty and allowing players to retire at the club. But I don't think that works these days. Especially under Glazernomics which stresses one or two Galacticos per season to maximise our commerciability.
It's a simple principle of buy low, sell high.
Not really. If you're playing a high line your keeper will have to be able to sweep, regardless of how good your CBs and fullbacks are, because it's a feature of that set-up rather than a fault in defence. That's why Rangnick immediately told De Gea he has to sweep more:
"He wants me to be ready for the long ball in-behind because he wants us to play very high, I have to be focussed for the whole game."
To what extent De Gea can adapt to that and/or compensate with other skills is up for debate. But better CBs/FBs won't suddenly reverse how goalkeeping works at the top level. Chance prevention and distribution are very important.
I understand the principle of business.
What I can't understand is advocating selling our best GK and one of the best GK in the PL for it. You don't sell your best players unless they are angling for a move or you can't afford them, it's another basic principle. Going by your logic Klopp should sell van Dijk since he is 30 and Salah too since he turns 30 in 6 months.
Relying on players past a certain age is always a gamble. Maybe it'll work for VVD and Salah. Maybe it won't.
With DDG, the difference is that his entire game is based on the speed of his reactions. We're not talking about a VdS-type organiser who got better at organising as he aged. Or a Schmeichel-type physical presence who got better at commanding his box.
Those are the types of qualities that goalkeepers can develop to prolong their careers. DDG hasn't demonstrated any aptitude in those areas to suggest he will. That being said, maybe DDG will suddenly turn into Ederson on the ball or Neuer outside the box. I doubt it somehow.
At his age, the fact he's had a late renaissance should be seen as a warning of what's to come rather than sign of invincibility. But, as it's a gamble, I think the smart money is on him declining pretty quickly.
Love that myth which will never die. Henderson is actually gk/manager/5th defender/deep lying playmaker.
de Geas game is not going to change. He can anticipate few situations where he can come out to sweep, but by and large he'll remain the player he is. And, he is still pretty good. You are just going in circles, you want us to cash in on him without realizing how difficult it is to find a top GK (Hint, look at the prices some have been going for). And, no, Dean Henderson isn't good enough either.
De Gea is a quality keeper and not an issue for the team which has much bigger gaping holes to fill in the transfer window. If his game falls of a quick, then he'll be replaced. Like most players on the other side of 30s are. It's lunacy to ask to sell your best players because they'll decline, of course they fecking well. Anyways, that's my last post on this conversation. It's utterly pointless.
Yeah, but if we had Henderson on goal, those 7 chances for those clear goals, would not have even happened. So Dave in fact, with those saves, is just cleaning his own mess.
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Yeah, but if we had Henderson on goal, those 7 chances for those clear goals, would not have even happened. So Dave in fact, with those saves, is just cleaning his own mess.
It's not a myth.
Look it up, overall team stats last season all better than when DDG played.
Stats ate mostly rubbish thing to pull out because they can be used out of context. For example;
Our best defensive stat in last 10 seasons (so including SAF's team) was in 2018 where our backline was Dave-Valencia,Jones, Smalling, Young? We conceded 28 goals that season. Sooooo....if we will follow stats, Jones and Smalling 》 Rio and Vida? Right?
Spending 300 mil on defence after that was waste of 300 mil? We should have keep playing with Jones and Smalling?
I mean...stats, right?
Only pointless because it proves your idea that it it's all a myth wrong.
Over the good sample of games last year with Henderson, on average won more games, condeded less chances, conceded less goals and kept more clean sheets. With the same defence that DDG had in front of him where he was conceding almost 1.5 goals a game.
This season with the same defence and DDG. Back to conceding almost 1.5 goals a game, have kept 5 clean sheets all season and are one again of the worst performing teams when comes to chances against.
But hey, he gets his highlight save in every week, so that's all that matters most people really.
This example isn't as strong as you seem to think it is.
Our defence wasn't at peak levels in Sir Alex's last three seasons (also worth noting that Ferdinand and Vidic were both in and out of the team at various points in each of these seasons, so the attempted Jones-Smalling comparison doesn't quite work either). So yes, 2017/18 was our best defensive effort in a decade.
Incidentally, since this is a goalkeeper topic and we're discussing stats, the more useful piece of data to point to from this particular season is that while we conceded 28 league goals in 17/18, our XG against was way, way higher - largely because De Gea had an absolutely exceptional season. Which is a more useful way of using stats to assess if Smalling-Jones were truly better than peak Rio-Vidic.
(Spoiler: they weren't. And our Goals Against doubled the next season when De Gea returned to human levels)
But yeah, coming back to the actual point, you haven't really said anything here to counter what the other person posted about our numbers with both Henderson and De Gea in goal last season.
Going back a few years when De Gea was at the peak of his powers, the word coming from our defenders at the time according to Andy Mitten was they preferred playing with Romero still.
De Gea is far too limited and not a GK for a side looking to play a modern system. If he was playing for another side City and Liverpool wouldn't touch him with a bargepole if they were in for a GK.
De Gea is far too limited and not a GK for a side looking to play a modern system. If he was playing for another side City and Liverpool wouldn't touch him with a bargepole if they were in for a GK.
This is all playing out exactly as predicted. Where are all the posters who said ETH would stick with these players?
Does this mean Henderson will be our number one? Because God help us if he is.
The strange thing is about your self congratulatory post we are not even Gegenpressing.
We are not pressing high, moreso from a low to mid point and not relentlessly either.
So not sure of your posts relevance to this thread nor to much of anything in our current situation?
Not really the thread for you to talk about anything turning out “exactly as predicted”. Have you watched Henderson play this season?This is undeniably very funny in the face of Henderson’s performances
Ah well fair enough on Henderson but that just happens tobe the thread where the point was made - I could have bumped plenty of others instead. And the point still stands. All that stuff about Ronaldo cutting off the supply lines and DdG having a future all turned out to be fantasy. ETH has sidelined and got rid of exactly the players we thought he would in order to impliment a high press style.