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2022-23 Performances


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5.3 Season Average Rating
Appearances
31
Clean sheets
17
Goals
0
Assists
0
Yellow cards
9
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After all the criticism he’s had this year, I was really pleased to see him perform so well for England.
Credit where it’s due, he’s been outstanding for England so far.
As for playing out from the back, to be honest, half the time it’s a nonsense.
After 10 or so passes the defenders end up passing back to the keeper, who then lumps it up the field, which he could have done in the first place!
 
Was thinking exactly the same.
When United bought him, and AWB for that matter, it was to shore up a very leaky defence, and £130 million for the pair was very much over the odds for both, but what both did was to stop us conceding so many goals, which enabled us to qualify for the Champions League, in effect they recouped some of that outlay in the money the club gained that season. At that time we were very much a counter attacking team, which suited Maguire, but as you pointed out, that style has changed somewhat, so realistically Maguire should be sold to a team who play in that counter attacking way, and if he plays well for England, then that should enhance his reputation as a good defender.

I never rated him but I do think hes a decent defender in the right team, which for him is not us under this manager. I hope he gets a move as being at Utd is causing him some mental issues which is why he isn’t playing well for us when he gets a chance. AWB is just finished at Itd he also needs to go and have a good career elsewhere. Shame we wont het anywhere near £130m for them both.
 
I never rated him but I do think hes a decent defender in the right team, which for him is not us under this manager. I hope he gets a move as being at Utd is causing him some mental issues which is why he isn’t playing well for us when he gets a chance. AWB is just finished at Itd he also needs to go and have a good career elsewhere. Shame we wont het anywhere near £130m for them both.

He'd be excellent in a back 3 (Chelsea/Spurs) or in a deep back 4 (Atletico). The problem is that he has a donkey reputation now so those clubs won't touch him.

If they had a Pete Brand working for them (Moneyball) then they'd be throwing a £30m bid in for 'Arry.
 
He is a good defender in the right team. Just doesn't suit a top side that want to control the game because of his lack of pace and ability to progress the ball which is why we've had to drop him. England had to soak up a lot of pressure last night and he was definitely MOTM.
 
I've always said this, Maguire is a top class defender for England.

So, if we are going to sell him, please sell him at no less than 40m.
 
Played in the right way, he is good. The problem is that the right way is to never have him leave the edge of your own box.
 
City were prepared to go higher than 35-40mil which is the price the poster posted which I replied to.
That is pretty obvious isn't it?
You didn’t actually quote a post though so it looked as if you were saying Citeh were willing to go higher than we did, hence the question.

Though I’m still not sure where you’ve plucked the £35-£40mil figures from as the link you posted doesn’t actually discuss the details you claim to know so it’s a little weird you’re sticking to your assumption like some ITK.
 
happy he’s doing well. hopefully a good showing in the world cup makes it easier to sell him. speed and agility are his big issues, and its not like he’s gonna get faster when he hits 30. now is the time to sell.
 
You didn’t actually quote a post though so it looked as if you were saying Citeh were willing to go higher than we did, hence the question.

Though I’m still not sure where you’ve plucked the £35-£40mil figures from as the link you posted doesn’t actually discuss the details you claim to know so it’s a little weird you’re sticking to your assumption like some ITK.
My bad, I didn't reply to that post but posted immediately after it but I was referring to it.
I think it is pretty obvious that City would have gone higher than 35-40 million for him given the quotes by Pep and the previous prices City were paying.
If it is any relevance I said at the time we should pay no more than 50 for him and should look elsewhere but as usual we pay a lot more than what the player is worth.
 
Made a few good runs and interceptions. Bigger tests to come, but decent.
 
I’m almost sure I witnessed Harry actually out sprinting someone in the first half?
I was gobsmacked. Maguire looked rapid in that moment!

I’m clearly not a fan of his, but fair play to him today. He played excellent. Certainly one of his best performances in the last 12 months or so. (Yes I know it’s a poor Wales, but he’s been poor against poor opposition before so credit when he does well.)
 
Harry is playing well but you have to look at why. He has basically two defenders In front of him, he has rapid full backs around him and England play a deep line. He might just be the reason for the Conservative football. England are playing mid table premiership tactics. It suits him when he plays for team on the front foot and leaves space behind him he's fecked. Might have been a world beater under mourinho here.

Do you think you think England be so deep with tomori or white and even smalling??
 
Harry is playing well but you have to look at why. He has basically two defenders In front of him, he has rapid full backs around him and England play a deep line. He might just be the reason for the Conservative football. England are playing mid table premiership tactics. It suits him when he plays for team on the front foot and leaves space behind him he's fecked. Might have been a world beater under mourinho here.

Do you think you think England be so deep with tomori or white and even smalling??

Similar to United then.
 
Harry is playing well but you have to look at why. He has basically two defenders In front of him, he has rapid full backs around him and England play a deep line. He might just be the reason for the Conservative football. England are playing mid table premiership tactics. It suits him when he plays for team on the front foot and leaves space behind him he's fecked. Might have been a world beater under mourinho here.

Do you think you think England be so deep with tomori or white and even smalling??
First and second game most of the game they had Rice and Bellingham, Bellingham is hardly a defender, and Maguire played well.

Are they playing that deep of a line? England pressed a lot yesterday as a unit and their CBs ended up quite high up the pitch often.

Rapid full backs? Shaw isn't rapid, Trippier certainly isnt. Walker is but played 1 game and plays the other side of the pitch to him.

He's playing well more because the opposition isn't doing much. USA was a big test and he was excellent, Senegal is another big test for him.
 
He’s always played better for England, this is nothing new. Hopefully it helps us get a better fee for him.
 
I never rated him but I do think hes a decent defender in the right team, which for him is not us under this manager. I hope he gets a move as being at Utd is causing him some mental issues which is why he isn’t playing well for us when he gets a chance. AWB is just finished at Itd he also needs to go and have a good career elsewhere. Shame we wont het anywhere near £130m for them both.

Honestly, 100% agree, in the right team, i.e., low block with a midfield in front of them they will both be excellent, maybe loans to clubs playing that type of football and sell the year after when they've both shown what they can do in the right set-up...
 
After all the criticism he’s had this year, I was really pleased to see him perform so well for England.
Credit where it’s due, he’s been outstanding for England so far.
As for playing out from the back, to be honest, half the time it’s a nonsense.
After 10 or so passes the defenders end up passing back to the keeper, who then lumps it up the field, which he could have done in the first place!

That is the thing, isn’t it? ;)
 
One of the pundits called it succinctly when pointing out that for United he typically has wide spaces in front of him and too much space behind, and it exposes his weaknesses.
For England the opposite is true.

Some players simply look better in some systems.

When defending deep, and the ball is in the air, there's probably very few you'd pick over him.
 
Harry is playing well but you have to look at why. He has basically two defenders In front of him, he has rapid full backs around him and England play a deep line. He might just be the reason for the Conservative football. England are playing mid table premiership tactics. It suits him when he plays for team on the front foot and leaves space behind him he's fecked. Might have been a world beater under mourinho here.

Do you think you think England be so deep with tomori or white and even smalling??

This is quite an interesting point. Just saying, I am not advocating Maguire starting for United but people need to check their facts.

Go have a look, Manutd's defensive line is 3rd lowest in the PL, so this idea that without Maguire a team automatically plays a high line is false.

Secondly, this is how international tournaments are won, hardly a team goes out there with a high press to win a tournament. Most teams play conservative football, even France when they won it, played Matuidi as LW to compensate having Pogba.

In respects to Tomori and Smalling, have you watched them this season, they have not been great. I love how everyone mentions Tomori like he is this amazing defender, I suggest you go watch the 2 Chelsea games V Milan for reference.
 
Harry can defend, I also think all talk about him needing to play for a team with a low defense etc is a bit overblown. Sure there is a scale, but all defenders will get exposed if the team in front of them is falling apart. We never had the greatest team and we played an ineffective style of football -- but since Maguire came here we finished 3, 2 and 6 in the Premier League. Much of the criticism against him is the classic 'who is in the picture, lets blame them' when a goal is scored. Sure he is not perfect, but our big problem was that we simply did not even remotely play dominating football under Ole. Teams came to our pitch, and dominated us. We were better away, because then we could counter attack. Where we finished in the standing was not horrible, but in reality the big titles were completely out of reach -- because the team as a whole did not play good football.

However, Harry Maguire is without any doubt very immobile on the ball for a CB in today's game -- on a team wanting to play the way ETH wants our team to play. Just like there is a big difference between how Scott McTominay handles the short passing game at the midfield and how Bernado Silva handles it -- there is a huge difference between how the defenders of Real or Barca or City play the ball and how Maguire does it.

And, playing up from the back, is what ETH's game plan is all about. It is recognized that if you can get the ball under possession high up field and overload in the middle, the defending team must defend with so many players that even if you lose the ball, the opponent is not a threat on the counter attack, ie. the goal of Pep's style and ETH's style is to play like this in the last 1/3 of the field if say the ball is on the right side (with the wingbacks/wingers shifting between inverting):
--------------------------------------------------I--------Net--------I---------------------------------------ball->--------------------
--------------------------------------------------I_____________I---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shaw-----------Rashford---------------------Martial------------------------------Dalot------------------------Antony
--------------------------------------Eriksen------------------------------Casemiro-----------------Fernandez-------------
------------------------------------------------------------Martinez-------------------------RCB------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------(*)------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To defend against this, you often end up with a 6-7 man line, 2-3 players in the lap of that line, and a striker a bit up field. Right? To get up field from that position, it basically requires two steps. You must (1) gain some ground, win a set piece or whatever, (2) move the team up and go from there. Or (1) pass the ball up field, hold it there, pass back to gain time, (2) move up the team, and then pass the ball up field again. Roughly. Offense is the best defense. And so forth.

How do you get into that position -- as often as possible -- in a football game? You play up from the back. Its about rigging the odds. The more you do it, the better. You send a long ball up field, its 50/50 give or take. Can you get it to 66/33, a lot is won.

Look at how much focus ETH put on getting ball playing ability form his CBs in Ajax. Ajax is an attractive club for young players. They have financial resources. It is a great stepping stone, has great reputation. They won't come in and win bidding wars for top transfer targets of the top teams in Europe, but they definitely have a very big pool of players to pick from when building their team. Still, when ETH had to rebuild his defensive line -- he moved a RB in Timber to CB and a CDM in Martinez to CB. Two guys 5'10. What did he focus on when he came to Manchester? A ball playing CB was really high up his list.

This is not only an important part of ETH's game -- its the most important part of how he wants this team to play.

Harry Maguire is very static with the ball. Its really easy for defending attackers to pressure him and force his team to chuck the ball up the field. I just wish there was a better understanding of this around this team -- because its creating a tough situation for ETH. All players are not a fit for all teams. Its like you have a great second attacker, a pure No 10, but that just can't play as a No 9 and on a team with a coach that never would play with a second attacker -- you got to sell that player. Its as simple as that. Either you build the team around the player and brings in a coach who will utilize him, or you sell that player.

Now there is talk about how Maguire wants to build up his form and come back to Manchester and retake his spot in the starting XI under Varane etc. Its like you have this amazing looking girl and this great guy who perhaps don't have the best looks -- and the girl has no feelings whatsoever for the guy, she can't stand him, but he is head over heels in love with her. Its not him, its her. He is great. It will not end well. Get over it. Instead, everyone around him is like throwing more and more wood on the fire. Surely, if Maguire plays well for England, ETH will see how good he is. I much rather hear -- Maguire will of course be sold by United since he does not a fit for how ETH wants his team to play, but surely his play for England shows how valuable he would be for other teams.
 
Harry can defend, I also think all talk about him needing to play for a team with a low defense etc is a bit overblown. Sure there is a scale, but all defenders will get exposed if the team in front of them is falling apart. We never had the greatest team and we played an ineffective style of football -- but since Maguire came here we finished 3, 2 and 6 in the Premier League. Much of the criticism against him is the classic 'who is in the picture, lets blame them' when a goal is scored. Sure he is not perfect, but our big problem was that we simply did not even remotely play dominating football under Ole. Teams came to our pitch, and dominated us. We were better away, because then we could counter attack. Where we finished in the standing was not horrible, but in reality the big titles were completely out of reach -- because the team as a whole did not play good football.

However, Harry Maguire is without any doubt very immobile on the ball for a CB in today's game -- on a team wanting to play the way ETH wants our team to play. Just like there is a big difference between how Scott McTominay handles the short passing game at the midfield and how Bernado Silva handles it -- there is a huge difference between how the defenders of Real or Barca or City play the ball and how Maguire does it.

And, playing up from the back, is what ETH's game plan is all about. It is recognized that if you can get the ball under possession high up field and overload in the middle, the defending team must defend with so many players that even if you lose the ball, the opponent is not a threat on the counter attack, ie. the goal of Pep's style and ETH's style is to play like this in the last 1/3 of the field if say the ball is on the right side (with the wingbacks/wingers shifting between inverting):
--------------------------------------------------I--------Net--------I---------------------------------------ball->--------------------
--------------------------------------------------I_____________I---------------------------------------------------------------------
Shaw-----------Rashford---------------------Martial------------------------------Dalot------------------------Antony
--------------------------------------Eriksen------------------------------Casemiro-----------------Fernandez-------------
------------------------------------------------------------Martinez-------------------------RCB------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------(*)------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To defend against this, you often end up with a 6-7 man line, 2-3 players in the lap of that line, and a striker a bit up field. Right? To get up field from that position, it basically requires two steps. You must (1) gain some ground, win a set piece or whatever, (2) move the team up and go from there. Or (1) pass the ball up field, hold it there, pass back to gain time, (2) move up the team, and then pass the ball up field again. Roughly. Offense is the best defense. And so forth.

How do you get into that position -- as often as possible -- in a football game? You play up from the back. Its about rigging the odds. The more you do it, the better.

Look at how much focus ETH put on getting ball playing ability form his CBs in Ajax. Ajax is an attractive club for young players. They have financial resources. It is a great stepping stone, has great reputation. They won't come in and win bidding wars for top transfer targets of the top teams in Europe, but they definitely have a very big pool of players to pick from when building their team. Still, when ETH had to rebuild his defensive line -- he moved a RB in Timber to CB and a CDM in Martinez to CB. Two guys 5'10. What did he focus on when he came to Manchester? A ball playing CB was really high up his list.

This is not only an important part of ETH's game -- its the most important part of how he wants this team to play.

Harry Maguire is very static with the ball. Its really easy for defending attackers to pressure him and force his team to chuck the ball up the field. I just wish there was a better understanding of this around this team -- because its creating a tough situation for ETH. All players are not a fit for all teams. Its like you have a great second attacker, a pure No 10, but that just can't play as a No 9 and on a team with a coach that never would play with a second attacker -- you got to sell that player. Its as simple as that. Either you build the team around the player and brings in a coach who will utilize him, or you sell that player.

Now there is talk about how Maguire wants to build up his form and come back to Manchester and retake his spot in the starting XI under Varane etc. Its like you have this amazing looking girl and this great guy who perhaps don't have the best looks -- and the girl has no feelings whatsoever for the guy, she can't stand him, but he is head over heels in love with her. Its not him, its her. He is great. It will not end well. Get over it. Instead, everyone around him is like throwing more and more wood on the fire. Surely, if Maguire plays well for England, ETH will see how good he is. I much rather hear -- Maguire will of course be sold by United since he does not a fit for how ETH wants his team to play, but surely his play for England shows how valuable he would be for other teams.
I wonder if United plan on putting him in the shop window for the summer window, he's surely going to get some games between now and then.
 
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