I thought he dealt with Bowen and Antonia pretty well, he also was 1 v 1 with Antonio and won the battle. Every single time yeah?
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
I thought he dealt with Bowen and Antonia pretty well, he also was 1 v 1 with Antonio and won the battle. Every single time yeah?
It's nuts. There are times when you need a solid defense because your forwards have a bad day and times when you need your forwards to score two or three because of a calamitous mistake. It is not one or the other. Our problem is our defense is shocking IMO mainly down to Maguire and Shaw and our attack looks completely toothless. That is a recipe for disaster. Neither forwards nor defenders should be absolved of criticism here. They are not mutually exclusive. Maguire has been shocking for quite a while regardless of the scorelines.
I hate to bench the team captain, but we're at the point where we cannot indulge Maguire playing through his poor form. Lindelof is a more than decent CB. It will be painful to hear Liverpool supporters and other United haters mock us for it, but we should go with Lindelof to partner with Varane for the foreseeable future.
If you have to beat figure of speech by finding one single literal example, er, then he’s probably pretty shit.
Tactically Roma, and Bordeaux, they wanted Smalling and Phil Jones at the time.
In Roma case, yet they still hesitated for strategy and finance reason. They renegotiated the fee, and they take time to adapt to Brexit too since Smalling would become non -EU player.
Answer the question regarding where Bordeaux is on Ligue 1 table please. You're the one moving the goal post responding with stupid argument. Bordeaux gambled with Phil Jones for tactical reason because where they are. And they only want to loan him. Phil Jones is not interested. Why? There is info that they couldn't afford his full wage and we would be subsidize Jones wage for them.
Top clubs in the continent are not interested in paying big fee and big wage for worse British players than they have. The mid table teams wouldn't be able to afford the financial package for overpaid British players like Maguire. And now you admitted it yourself, that Maguire has a say on the move. So answer my question in my previous post :" Which foreign club would offer him 3+ year contract on similar wage to motivate him to move?" He has a contract last until 2025 here. Which mid table teams in foreign league paying a defender this much? Would Maguire take a pay cut and accept just 3 year contract (worse contract than he current has)?
If you want still silky response, I can help. How about Joe Hart loan to Torino? How about Micah Richard to Fiorentina ages ago even Brexit was a thing?
German clubs had started to take interest develop in British like young talented British talent as seen with Sancho, Bellingham, Bayern interest in CHD... yet this is still completely different to no resale value, overpaid, nothing special Maguire.
You don't understand the difference between passport (citizenship) and visa (legal resident), do you? There is a limit on how many non EU a team can have in their squad in many of these European leagues. Juventus was full in 2020 summer, and they missed out on Luis Suarez because he could obtain an EU passport. Working permit, visa is lesser an issue. If anything, obtaining working permit and visa from the EU nations is easier than GB even before Brexit.
I am not the one calling you name. I only counter your argument, which I see as silly. Please don't misunderstand and take it wrongly as personal. If you don't have better reasoning, then let's agree to disagree here.
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I am not moving any goalposts. You made a silly comment which said no foreign club would be interested in English CB players and I showed two examples (and then another) where that was not true.
I am not going to bother responding to the rest of your post because it comes across as arrogant and is also not relevant.
Maguire is a decent defender, the Issue is he's nowhere near good enough for a team with aspirations of winning the big trophies. His pace is non existent and he can't turn in a 10 acre field.
Going back to Bruce & Pallister, Stam & Johnsen, Ferdinand & Vidic, in comparison to those CBs Maguire is utter tripe and I don't see anyone disagreeing with that statement. Even our back up CBs like Wes Brown and J Evans were all superior to him and when you factor in the absolutely criminal amount that was paid for him it was always going to end like this for him. He needs selling and we need to move on and take the hit on the chin.
Going back to Bruce & Pallister, Stam & Johnsen, Ferdinand & Vidic, in comparison to those CBs Maguire is utter tripe and I don't see anyone disagreeing with that statement. Even our back up CBs like Wes Brown and J Evans were all superior to him and when you factor in the absolutely criminal amount that was paid for him it was always going to end like this for him. He needs selling and we need to move on and take the hit on the chin.
I specifically name checked Maguire in my initial post. I don't talk general about other English player.
You read it wrong and responded with what I saw as silly examples.
Let's agree to disagree then?!
Now you say "you read it wrong"
.You are saying no foreign club would be interested in Maguire. United had foreign clubs interested in Phil Jones, who has barely played any football in years and Tuanzebe who had shown little in his second spell at Aston Villa. But for some reason Maguire, a current English international, would not attract any interest whatsoever, with your arguments simply being tactical, large wages and visa issues?
The tactical reason is purely subjective. If visa issues are such a problem, why did Napoli and Bordeaux not worry about them for two players barely playing any football in Tuanzebe and Jones? Wage is also not as big an issue as already explained before - the wages reported in the UK are before tax and some have included performance related bonuses. The length of the contract (as of right now) is also not problematic. The club are not going to sell Maguire this summer given the major overhaul already occurring and next year he will have two years left on his contract.
So all your reasons for Maguire lacking interest from foreign clubs are not so significant: He will have admirers despite fan opinion of the player. He can get a visa if needed. His wage is not an insurmountable hurdle.
As I said earlier, the main hindrance to removing Maguire from the team will be the player himself and the desire from the board/ club.
Now you say "you read it wrong"
You are saying no foreign club would be interested in Maguire. United had foreign clubs interested in Phil Jones, who has barely played any football in years and Tuanzebe who had shown little in his second spell at Aston Villa. But for some reason Maguire, a current English international, would not attract any interest whatsoever, with your arguments simply being tactical, large wages and visa issues?
The tactical reason is purely subjective. If visa issues are such a problem, why did Napoli and Bordeaux not worry about them for two players barely playing any football in Tuanzebe and Jones? Wage is also not as big an issue as already explained before - the wages reported in the UK are before tax and some have included performance related bonuses. The length of the contract (as of right now) is also not problematic. The club are not going to sell Maguire this summer given the major overhaul already occurring and next year he will have two years left on his contract.
So all your reasons for Maguire lacking interest from foreign clubs are not so significant: He will have admirers despite fan opinion of the player. He can get a visa if needed. His wage is not an insurmountable hurdle.
As I said earlier, the main hindrance to removing Maguire from the team will be the player himself and the desire for the board/ club.
I get a feeling that you you don't read.
Did I imply about other players here in my post than Maguire?
Obtaining Visa, and having an EU passport is a complete different thing.
I brought up Luis Suarez case because it is informative for. Luis Suarez has no issue obtaining a working visa. His issue is Juventus doesn't non-EU slot for him and they were not able to move somebody else on time. Barcelona gave up Suarez for free.
Please learn about this because this is exactly what is silly about your argument.
Why are you evading answering questions? Where is Bordeaux on Ligue 1 table? You did acknowledge yourself, it's also involved Maguire's interest in moving for a transfer to materialize. So if Bordeaux or the like show interest in Maguire, you think it's realistic transfer? How can those clubs afford him?
This is clearly running in circle moving the goal posts.
A decent center half apparently
You saw a different game. Maguire couldn’t get within arm’s reach of Bowen, who treated Maguire like the oil tanker he is.
The defense this guy's been getting from pundits has been hillarious.
December 2021
February 2022
Both times Euro Hangover mentioned
December 2021
February 2022
Both times Euro Hangover mentioned
im going in work late tomorrow, claiming euro hangover
I think in good form Lindelof is average at best, Although never an £80m defender which is a part of the problem, Maguires good form is definately far better even though he still has flaws a player at that price certainly shouldnt, but he is a good defender playing well, we have barely seen it and I really dont undestand him gettign the captaincy aprt from the fact we dont have leaders, he doesnt show anythign to show he is a leader
Yes i can understand that and there is the argument he brings in the most money to sign replacements. Personally I actually think Bailly is the most capable with less flaws that the other, sadly the two main flaws of injuries and the occasional huge rash mistake are big ones
Napoli took Tuanzebe on loan for a normal loan fee, just to have one more defensive player available for the rest of the season. They couldn't pass on the occasion to send Manolas and his big wage to Greece, but his transfer impoverished their bench.
Tuanzebe has played 1 Coppa Italia game and 10 mn in the league for them (When they still had players out to the AFCON). Now he is just a benchwarmer and he is not on the list for the Europa. They can afford Tuanzebe being the 4th CB for 6 months.
Are you really comparing this to the effort it would require from Napoli to take Maguire (if they -somehow- were to become interested in him) ? Maguire is earning more than 4 times the salaray of Tuanzebe. And he is also earning more money than Koulibaly who has been one of Italy's best CBs for many years.
There is nothing comparable to Maguire about that.
He is not going to publicly denigrate him. Maguire is an asset of the club, and he is worth over 40 M on the books.
But from that answer, he basically admitted that Maguire is more suited to a defensive-minded low block back 3 like England's.
But isnt the point that at some stage; a player who has a supposed “good form” that is (literally) never shown, must simply be considered a bad player!?
Maguire is one of those. He has never been great. He has always needed someone to babysit him to avoid calamity.
i would take a skilful “football-playing” defender (say like Cannavaro) any day over size and at best strength (Maguire).
You'd take a Ballon D'Or winning defender over Harry Maguire, well I never!
According to Ralf, he isn't suited to the style of play. Not exactly a pretty picture when a manager thinks so little of a player's ability. In a roundabout way, Harry is said to be a player for a midtable club.
You cant just take his captaincy and keep him on the bench, that will cause toxicity in the dressing room.
Either he continues to play as captain or we sell him.
His captaincy should have been taken after the greece incident. Unless he does something idiotic off the pitch it won't be easy taking his armband.
Either he continues to play as captain or we sell him.
His captaincy should have been taken after the greece incident. Unless he does something idiotic off the pitch it won't be easy taking his armband.
I've never seen anything like it from a captain and a defender at a top club to have these many compilation videos online of so many atrocious and abyssmal mistakes. He's even got more than Jones himself. Watching them make you cringe. We got taken to the cleaners paying a world record fee for him Leicester are laughing their behinds off as we speak.
Euros hangover is the most laughable excuse I've ever heard from people who won't accept that this is the worst signing the club has ever made. He has been so bad this season I'm loss for words. He got outperformed by Phil Jones who had not played in 2 years.
Euros hangover is the most laughable excuse I've ever heard from people who won't accept that this is the worst signing the club has ever made. He has been so bad this season I'm loss for words. He got outperformed by Phil Jones who had not played in 2 years.
You need to understand the context of the post before replying to it. The person I was replying to made a big issue about visas and I simply pointed out that Tuanzebe and Jones had no problem getting visas. You then point out Maguire's wage and I have addressed that part three times already and also in the very post which you quoted, so I have no idea why you chose to bring that up.
Imagine thinking ‘he’s playing like a sack of shite months after the tourney because his team lost on pens in the Euro final’ is a good defense, or a defense at all.
This is a club who had David Beckham who got his effigies burnt after 98 and went on to deliver his best season in a Utd shirt right after, or Ronaldo and Rooney who had a big public spat in WC06 and then won the league together playing out of their minds. That excuse basically just expose how pathetic his mindset is.
It honestly makes me cringe but to be honest it seems most fans are now coming to terms with the fact that he was simply just an expensive mistake and just like Di Maria and Lukaku he must be moved on. No manager is going to be able do bring out anything from him. His problem does not lie with attitude or motivation he's simply just not good enough and at his age his window for drastic improvement is gone.
You have a big issue with your knowledge about visa (legal resident) and passport (EU citizen).
You're the one only having a problem here. Prove it other wise, answering my questions in previous post.
Yet bizarrely it does completely negate defensive errors from other players or abysmal goalkeeping. Both goals in the last two games could have easily been prevented if Shaw wasn't playing the opponents onside or De Gea actually tried to stop the opponents scoring, yet we've seen an additional 2 pages in both of their performances threads yet we've had 20 in the Maguire thread.
What a lovely way to speak with other members.
But it is not relevant. If a club really wants a player, they will plan for it. Simple as that. If a club deems that Maguire is the best defender available then they will find a way to bring him into the squad. You also ignore the fact that Germany have no restrictions whatsoever. Holland has few restrictions. Portugal has few restrictions.
Since a lot of your questions, e.g. about Boardeaux, have no relevance whatsoever. It is also interesting that you have avoided now talking about wages being an issue and are now focusing all your efforts instead of non-EU quotas.
I do not care where they are in the league. The point was that if someone can show an interest in Jones then there is bound to be an interest in Maguire.
Who cares about Bordeaux? Why are you so fixated on them? There are numerous clubs across Europe. You are also assuming that any transfer will mean Maguire will be paid the same amount of money. Have you considered that they may offer Maguire less money? Again, it comes down to Maguire, the player himself. A club can and will show interest and it is up to the player whether they will accept reduced wages if lower wages are offered.
I called you out for moving the goalposts and your only response is to accuse me of that.
If a club is interested in an international player, they will find a way to fit them within their non-EU quota. No club operates under the logic that "we have a non-EU quota so we will never be interested in any non-EU player".
"Prove". ..
Germany has no non-EU restrictions. Therefore clubs in Germany will be interested in Maguire. This immediately counters your entire argument that there will be no foreign clubs interested in Maguire on the basis of his non-EU passport.
I don't think you've addressed it, you just implied that a gross salary of 190k/ week (supposedly incl bonus) was not a big salary. I don't know where you got that Idea. Nobody in the PL, outside the big 6, is earning that kind of money. Spurs has one player on that and his name is H. Kane. The only other CB:s on 190+ are Varane, VVD, and T Silva.
In Italy, there are 2 CBs on that kind of money, Bonucci, and De Ligt. This basically explains how Juventus is the only club in there offering these wages to defenders. And they are certainly not coming with an offer for Maguire.
Unless he cuts his wages in half and accept a move to a lower standard team he is completely unsellable.
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Yes and again, I already said explicitly that the transfer depends mostly on both the player himself and the desire of the club to sell him:
How do you plan to sign a player that is being paid on a higher paying grade than the best in that position in your wage bill?What a lovely way to speak with other members.
But it is not relevant. If a club really wants a player, they will plan for it. Simple as that. If a club deems that Maguire is the best defender available then they will find a way to bring him into the squad. You also ignore the fact that Germany have no restrictions whatsoever. Holland has few restrictions. Portugal has few restrictions.
Since a lot of your questions, e.g. about Boardeaux, have no relevance whatsoever. It is also interesting that you have avoided now talking about wages being an issue and are now focusing all your efforts instead of non-EU quotas.
I do not care where they are in the league. The point was that if someone can show an interest in Jones then there is bound to be an interest in Maguire.
Who cares about Bordeaux? Why are you so fixated on them? There are numerous clubs across Europe. You are also assuming that any transfer will mean Maguire will be paid the same amount of money. Have you considered that they may offer Maguire less money? Again, it comes down to Maguire, the player himself. A club can and will show interest and it is up to the player whether they will accept reduced wages if lower wages are offered.
I called you out for moving the goalposts and your only response is to accuse me of that.
If a club is interested in an international player, they will find a way to fit them within their non-EU quota. No club operates under the logic that "we have a non-EU quota so we will never be interested in any non-EU player".
"Prove".
Germany has no non-EU restrictions. Therefore clubs in Germany will be interested in Maguire. This immediately counters your entire argument that there will be no foreign clubs interested in Maguire on the basis of his non-EU passport.
How many Eredivisie, Bundesliga, Belgium league teams can afford Maguire? And among those, who would be interested?
How much did Sule ask Bayern to pay him, and how much he will receive at Dortmund after his move again? You think those clubs would readily pay Maguire?
You brought up Bordeaux, and you don't care now when it's convenient for you to evade to acknowledge a grim reality about your Bordeaux Jones example? Is this not moving the goal post?
So you think Maguire would be ready to take less money, and worse contract than his contract until 2025 with us? What do you base this on, beside your own assumption? (Rich that you can accuse someone else of assuming, when your own argument is itself based on solely assumption?). We have a recent record of having players running down the contract: Herrera, Rojo, Sergio Romero. Soon to be Pogba and Lingard possibly. Where is this idea of player taking worse contract term to move come from?
"I am interested in buying the club from Glazer. I just need Glazers to feck up and in million years time, my few millions dollars trust among my relatives would possibly afford that purchase." That is your argument there. Baseless, wishful thinking and thus silly.
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You said nothing of relevant here. Even if United give him for free, foreign clubs would hesitate to break their wage structure for someone on Maguire (a non-EU CB, little to no resale value) wage.
Highly unlikely for the player to "desire" a wage cut.
I already addressed this.
They can all afford him if Maguire himself decides to lower his fee and the club have a desire to quickly offload him. Again, two things which I have already said are the significant factors to moving Maguire. The player and the desire of the club.
As above.
Sigh. I brought up Bordeaux with regards simply to point out that a club was interested in Jones. It could have been any club in world football. The reason I said you are moving the goalposts is because you have fixated on the specific club and completely missed the point that A) A club was interested in Phil Jones and B) It stands to reason that if a club could be interested in Jones that a club may also be interested in Maguire.
I have not assumed anything. I already stated very clearly that a transfer depends on the desire of Maguire and the selling club.
But it is not based on assumption? I left it open ended as to whether Maguire would decide to take a wage cut.
Sanchez.
I have no idea what you are referring to here. Maybe you could try making the point with less emotion.
Please stop quoting me now unless you have anything new to add.
You failed to respond . I am not only one who stated this. So try respond properly again. You have no proper argument so far.
Which other clubs in the world are interested in Jones then? Why baseless assumption? And your entire argument on Maguire subject is based on baseless assumption too.
Alexis Sanchez has a bumper contract. He took less wage at Inter but longer contract, and us paying the difference in wage. Try again.
If you didn't assume, in what world you can keep going on about club around the world would be interested in Jones (now after these 2 latest posts beside Bordeaux), Maguire, where there are nothing to based on?
Anyone can wishful thinking assume a fantasy situation is my point about me buying United from the Glazers. That's your argument style from my perspective.
If you can't take response from me or anyone, my advice is to use the ignore function. You're in no better position to rate other opinions because it goes both way. I think your argument is silly, and unrealistic.
I responded to every comment. I used multi-quotes clearly.
The point is that there was a club interested in him. It has also previously been reported that West Ham and Newcastle may have been interested. If clubs exist that are interested in Jones there will almost certainly be clubs interested in Maguire, based purely on talent. This is not a contentious thing to say. Phil Jones has played something only a handful of games in several seasons.
I am not sure what you are referring too. I have simply said that:
1) There will be foreign clubs interested in Maguire.
2) The most important factors to his sale are the player himself and the club.
I do not need to try again. Players can and do take wage cuts.
I genuinely think you are trolling here now. Your entire argument was basically "no foreign club would be interested in Maguire" and I simply made a comment that if there are club(s) interested in Jones, there is a good chance there will be clubs interested in Maguire. I genuinely cannot decipher what point you are making here now.
Well you obviously have no basis for that argument since I made no reference to the Glazers in any of my posts.
The point is, if you cannot add anything different, then stop quoting me. I already addressed all your points using multi-quotes and answering them and your first comment is simply to say "you failed to respond", simply because you do not agree with them.
Ok. I really doubt he would accept a random move to Metz to earn a fraction of his current salary.
United gave Sanchez 7 M to compensate for the wage cut he was taking. Skilled forwards to be brought from the bench represent an added value worth those wages for clubs. It is not the same market for defenders.
And Inter was interested in him because he's previously shown at Barca and Arsenal that a happy & motivated Sanchez would be a useful addition to their sqaud. Maguire doesn't have that on his CV. I wish I could be as optimistic as you about Maguire's options.
I am not sure what your reference about Metz is about, other than to be deliberately ridiculous to make a point.
I am not really sure if we can or cannot sell him. The other poster simply said words to the effect of "no foreign club would be interested in Maguire" and I disagreed with that comment.
I believe there will be interest in him but the key stumbling blocks to any sale is Maguire himself (potentially taking any wage cuts and desire to move) and the selling fee which the board puts up.
Just because I believe a club would be interested in him does not mean I also believe a sale will be easy. Secondly, just because a club is interested in a player does not mean the club think they can easily attain that player.
We can go back and fourth about the wages themselves, but I have reiterated several times that any decision on wage cuts is up to the player and I have no idea how Maguire would respond to that. The only reason I mentioned earlier his wage not being "too high" is mainly because there is typically variability in reporting of wages, particularly for United. I mentioned this because I remember reading about Martial's transfer, who was reported to be on £250k/week by MEN and this figure was something I think many fans believed but the BBC then reported his wages are around £150k/week:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...s/man-united-anthony-martial-sevilla-22864444
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/59811365
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