Jose may buy him.
5
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 37
- Clean sheets
- 7
- Goals
- 2
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 9
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
I'm so fed up of the "He needs the right partner" defense that gets trotted out for him. The guy has been a calamity of varying degrees with every defender we have put next to him. If the only way he can function is in the perfect setting, then get rid of him. Send him somewhere where they play with 3CB and 2DM like Southgate does.
We was ALWAYS the middle man in his quest to get to PSG, he never wanted to be here.
Unfortunately I do. Still think Maguire is top of the blame tree. His poor form combined with his association with Ole sure has stoked a few.
Pogba doesn't play, for literal months, and still receives dog's abuse. If he were as poor as Maguire has been, he'd have multiples more vitriolic posts written about him.
But at some point surely all of HMs fan club must see that long term poor form = poor player!!??
Otherwise that is why I never made it to the premiership, I only had a few years of poor form (and poor coaches, and poor players next to me!) apart from that i was world class, i promise.
Otherwise that is why I never made it to the premiership, I only had a few years of poor form (and poor coaches, and poor players next to me!) apart from that i was world class, i promise.
We have a few players who get the same treatment. Maguire needs the right partner, Martial needs the right formation, VDB needs the right manager etc. They just not good enough for a top 4 side. Maybe they'd look decent in a top 6 side but they're never going to challenge in the PL for honors if they start in a team.
We don't even play with a high line. We play a strange system of high pressing and a deeper defence. We can't play with a high line because of DDG. No starting keeper in the league has made less sweeping actions this season. He makes a sweeping action once every 5 games.
When Pogba didnt play people made up that he was faking an injury eventhough he literally needed surgery for it. People are influenced by the media into hating Pogba, Maguire is mostly protected by the media. Isnt Maguire his current bad form still defined as 'Euros hangover' and was Maguire his bad form last year not 'Greece issue'? Maguire has been playing so bad this season that even the media protection he gets as a England player isnt keeping him safe from critisism.
Indeed. And as can be seen throughout this thread, Maguire gets absolved for his poor play as readily as can be entertained. Pogba is not afforded any such restbite.
This is just confirmation bias. Probably 80% of the commentary on here about Maguire is negative. Every player has fans on here and a dedicated band of detractors of varying size. Pogba and Maguire probably have the largest number of detractors. You can see what you want to see.
No, I don't think so. The mental gymnastics and cognitive dissonance in here are extraordinary, but it is what it is and I'm not sure if people even defend 'Maguire' anymore or the construct they're entrenched in and must defend at all costs. Not meant as a criticism, but will come out as such.
If you feel anyone else's negative position is as readily defended, I'd be intrigued to know whom you think that is. You mentioned Pogba alone; so you're telling me if Maguire didn't play for us for a few months he'd have a thread with the same level as vitriol in it as Pogba literally has? Do you really believe that?
It's such a weird hypothetical that I don't even think it's worth engaging - is Maguire about to leave on a free, has Maguire missed loads of games in recent seasons, does Maguire have Mino Raiola has his agent and so on. Two different players with different narratives around their time here.
What surprises me is that you can look at the Maguire thread and not perceive it to be overwhelmingly negative.
You should probably base your expectations on how he has played before, as that is a predictor for how well he will play in the future. How much Woody would pay for him is a very bad predictor, and if you never saw him play for Hull, Leicester and England, and based your expectations on how much Woody would pay for him, I’d say a few months of watching him would often be enough to rework your expectations. If you, after two and a half years of watching him play, still think he is a £80m player underperforming, I’d say you are either a very slow learner (which I don’t believe you are tbh), or that you have way to high esteem for Woodgate’s ability to get a player for a decent price (I doubt that too), or that you are probably generally frustrated and just hang that on a fairly arbitrary ‘reason’. I’d say the same goes for any other people who carry these price tag related expectations still, and so would not really trust them to base my expectancy on. As you say, it’s what you can expect from people, and so very human, yet it’s still not very rational, and so may be nice to put aside for any discussion not about Woodgate/Judge and their abilities as negotiators.
I’m frustrated with Maguire too, not because of what Woody paid for him, as that is over and done with, but because I’ve seen him play a lot better and want him to find his mojo back. I don’t expect it’s from lack of trying, though, so blaming him won’t do much good.
I am quite convinced that coaches like Rangnik, Carrick and Solskjær don’t look at a price tag when picking their team. Their job depends on results, so they won’t give a fiddle about anything not producing results, and they see the player every day and every game, they are not gonna say, ‘we’ll Ed valued him at £80m two and a half years ago, so he’s probably right, I should play him even if I think our chances are better with Bailly or Lindelöf.’ I ain’t buying that.
Most likely, we fans underestimate what he brings to the team even when he is in bad form, because the mistakes are glaring enough, no one in the coaching team, with their experience and vidoanalysis to boot, are not seeing those.
Lindelöf has been sick, robbed and giving birth for half a year now it feels, and Bailly and Jones come and go like the sun on a cloudy day, so maybe at this point we should be releived that we have someone better than Bjorn Hardley healthy for every single game?
I’m amazed at the number of times I read “drop Maguire” in pretty much every thread where it’s not bizarre to post such a thing.
He must be one of the most unpopular captains in the history of football.
I suppose I should ignore it. I think he’s a good player trying to play his way back to form in a team that is not tracking back properly and is exposing the defence often, regularly leaving us outnumbered and out of position. It can’t be easy.
He is making mistakes of his own of course and is not as fit as he could be. He’s a big unit and will take a few more matches to get back to his best.
I doubt he cares what a few forum members think but some support couldn’t hurt.
He must be one of the most unpopular captains in the history of football.
I suppose I should ignore it. I think he’s a good player trying to play his way back to form in a team that is not tracking back properly and is exposing the defence often, regularly leaving us outnumbered and out of position. It can’t be easy.
He is making mistakes of his own of course and is not as fit as he could be. He’s a big unit and will take a few more matches to get back to his best.
I doubt he cares what a few forum members think but some support couldn’t hurt.
It's a combination of a few things that have added up over the past year including:
- 80M price tag (no fault of his, of course, but he came in with huge expectations as the most expensive defender in the world)
- His back-to-back poor performances and glaring mistakes this season
- The incident in Greece, then the ear-cupping after scoring against Albania, followed by more crap performances for United
- Uninspiring post-match interviews where he refuses to take responsibility and always deflects blames somewhere else
- He doesn't seem to act like a captain on the pitch
I agree that there is a decent player in there somewhere as he has previously shown, but there are legitimate reasons he is being disliked by the fans right now.
That looks like 10 years of calamity, not 2. Crazy. Some of that is mind boggling.
Standing on him was the best thing he did all match.
As shit as Maguire is, I think a lot of the vitriol disappears if he loses the captaincy.
And unlike them, Maguire doesn't attract interest from overseas clubs. Financially, strategically and tactically it's not sensible for overseas teams to pick up an established English CB issue on huge wage, now after Brexit (non-EU players restriction). Also Maguire doesn't have world class level like Sanchez and Di Maria previously even if it's only to appease the fan, nor ability similar to Lukaku's in demanding scoring ability.
We're stuck with the PL market which clubs are fully aware of his true value by now.
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Roma bought Smalling after Brexit and Bordeaux were interested in Jones. Again, stop exaggerating the idea that Maguire is unsellable and that no club would want him. It is nonsense. I get that he is becoming a meme of sorts but if we talk from a serious point of view, he is still a good player just struggling for form, confidence and maybe the pressure of being at United.
What makes Maguire unsellable is his long contract. Who in their right mind would offer him a similar contract -wages?
He has far more 'defenders' jumping through hoops to bring fanciful logic into a warped reality than Pogba ever will. As I said earlier, I find it a marvel to observe the mental gymnastics reserved for Maguire when someone like Lindelof makes even an 8th of the errors he's denigrated, and so it goes with every other defender sans Varane.
You'd genuinely think he'd been special for us from the unconditional 'reasoning' put forth [literally] solely in his favour. It actually beggars belief - he's probably the player with the most of it reserved for him in our entire squad. I don't think the thread's overwhelmingly negative because his supporters are staunch and rock solid in backing him and deflecting any charge from him or reducing it to a singular in any game whilst brushing over his multiple errors. Again, something reserved for so, so few of the players on our books at the moment.
Re. Pogba, it doesn't really matter why the branches split as they do in relation to why he is so hated - under the umbrella of 'Pogba' he gets so many multiples more stick than Maguire that it's not really a debate. As I asked: do you believe the stick Maguire gets goes beyond him being a liability in our starting xi's and do you believe his detractors would carry on a campaign against him if wasn't in the first xi? As this is what Pogba is on the receiving end of - he doesn't have to play - over months! - to be posted about in the most egregious manner.
I know I might be seen as a Maguire 'hater' and thus not objective, but I have numerous lengthy posts about him since he got here and not being convinced for exactly the same reasons that he has actually worsened in since the times I voiced them. I don't think he's a deep subject; he's just not good enough, removing emotion from the discussion. I don't think I'm staunch enough to go back and forth ceaselessly about that, but there's no denying, imo, that he is treated more favourably than almost anyone else at the club when it comes to his output. Who has a longer string, in you opinion? What has he done to earn it? At least the likes of De Gea has credit in the bank, well-earned and totally justified by stellar seasons, for example.
He’s an average player bought for a ridiculous fee, paid ridiculous wages and made Captain despite not being a leader. Every season he has to play himself into form which is just a nice way of saying he isn’t good enough week in week out.
He’s been here long enough to emphasise what a lot of us knew before he joined, he isn’t that good and never will be. None of this is his fault and he’s certainly not alone in not being good enough but I think it’s pretty understandable why so many fans are fed up with him. But biggest reason he gets so much criticism is we all know this will go on for years, it will always be he needs to play himself into form or he plays well for England or some other reason to keep persisting with him.
Are you serious with your response?
Roma did a "try before buy" loan with Smalling. And they even hesitated and renegotiated the fee, thus lost him during EL 2020 runin period. And technically Brexit was not into effect until January 2021. Roma had time to deal Serie A complicated non-EU players regulation. Smalling in pure defensive aspect is better Maguire, so he has use for Roma for the low fee he was sold for. Also he was on lower wage. Smalling only had 1 year left on his contract at the time he was sold. He was motivated to move so he could get a longer contract. Right now Maguire contract is until 2025. Which foreign club would offer him 3+ year contract on similar wage to motivate him to move?
Look where Bordeaux is on Ligue 1 table. Even Phil Jones doesn't want to go there on loan, you think Maguire would accept similar offer?
Juventus missed out on Luis Suarez due to him not able to obtain an EU passport (naturalization scandal). Di Maria has EU passport. Other European leagues have different restriction on non EU players. Those things play big role their recruitment plan.
So come back with a reasonable argument, or you can stop with your wishful thinking out of touch comparison.
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If I’m disappointed with a player, it is always a combination of his performance and my expectations. If a player is the most expensive defender of all time that influence a lot of people’s expectations. If the club think he’s worth the highest fee of all time, that will affect peoples expectations.
I definitely think Rangnick is influenced by the fact that he’s captain (more than his price tag). It’s more difficult to put the captain aside.
And I really don’t see what he brings to the team atm. It’s not just the mistakes, he’s not very good the rest of the time either. I think it’s bad for the other players morale and spirit to see him play game after game no matter how he performs.
Feck knows what’s going on and you can go through so many players at the mo that could be dropped. Harry is just symbolic of the club in general….
Agreed. He's kind of a symbol for our failures at the moment, and moreoever if he isn't captain I bet managers would be more willing to drop him to the bench and take him out of the spotlight.
I get he has been rubbish, but where is the competition? Bailly lots of injuries or big mistakes, Lindelof had the health issues and lets not froget he is average at best with loads of flaws, JOnes four years later?
The truth is, despite a pretty big oulay there, we need a new centre back, if not two and at least the same number moving out, maybe even three including tuanzabe
Don’t blame ‘people’s expectations’ for your own.
On the part about Rangnik, I think you’re right - price tag doesn’t count, captaincy does. If Rangnik thought he was a bad captain, he’d probably have switched captains by now. I still don’t think Rangnik is fussed by putting him on the bench regardless of that, if he thinks Lindelöf and Varane will tighten his defence.
Like I said, I’m disappointed by Harry as well this season, big time, based on the level I’ve seen him deliver for United, England and Leicester at his best. I would try Lindelöf ahead of him by know (when he’s ready), even Bailly (if he was) and give Harry a rest. Jones I’m not so sure about. I’d have to see him in training first. So in effect, I’d have played Maguire in these games he’s played now, because he was likely the best option of the eligible players, and I know his confidence may climb if he gets to understand the new system with some more games under his belt. He’s not that disastrous - we’ve only conceded a goal a game, it could be worse with Phil Jones who’s played one game in two years.
I hope Lindelöf and Varane will get a couple of games when the Swede is ready though.
Its a chore to watch him play football. How the hell our scouts missed this? Or did we assume Pep wanted him so he must be good? I have seen turtles turning faster than this guy.
If we dont want to play Tiki Taka and want to play high pressing octane football, this guy should not be a starter anymore. And this include lazy fecker Shaw as well.
If we dont want to play Tiki Taka and want to play high pressing octane football, this guy should not be a starter anymore. And this include lazy fecker Shaw as well.
im not disputing we need a new CB. The flaws in jones, Lindelöf, Bailly and HM are evident. I’m not sure HM is better.
I would say it’s peoples expectations. Every second post someone is commenting his price. That’s also why I made the comment in the first place, to say that it is not so strange that peopleDon’t blame ‘people’s expectations’ for your own.
On the part about Rangnik, I think you’re right - price tag doesn’t count, captaincy does. If Rangnik thought he was a bad captain, he’d probably have switched captains by now. I still don’t think Rangnik is fussed by putting him on the bench regardless of that, if he thinks Lindelöf and Varane will tighten his defence.
Like I said, I’m disappointed by Harry as well this season, big time, based on the level I’ve seen him deliver for United, England and Leicester at his best. I would try Lindelöf ahead of him by know (when he’s ready), even Bailly (if he was) and give Harry a rest. Jones I’m not so sure about. I’d have to see him in training first. So in effect, I’d have played Maguire in these games he’s played now, because he was likely the best option of the eligible players, and I know his confidence may climb if he gets to understand the new system with some more games under his belt. He’s not that disastrous - we’ve only conceded a goal a game, it could be worse with Phil Jones who’s played one game in two years.
I hope Lindelöf and Varane will get a couple of games when the Swede is ready though.
It looked as Rangnick chose Varane and Lindelof but then came Lindelof’s heart problem plus the burglary. Personally I think Varane:Lindelof way of playing suits his style better, however it’s hard to evaluate which style suits the best, when Harry’s been playing badly and the other two have been quite good. CB is different from most other positions as you don’t want to rotate too much and rarely substitute centrebacks during a game.
I have watched a few games now with Atletico and even if they look strong on setpieces, I would prefer Varane-Lindelof over Harry.But then Lindelof needs to play preferably both matches we have left before Atletico.
He should be benched. We might actually keep a clean sheet with lindelof.
You said something that was obviously incorrect and was demonstrated by two examples.
What relevance does this have?
You said:
" Financially, strategically and tactically it's not sensible for overseas teams to pick up an established English CB issue on huge wage, now after Brexit (non-EU players restriction). "
I gave a examples of where clubs wanted two English CB's and you have now changed the goalposts to say "Jones does not want to move there" and "Smalling was better". We were not talking about whether a player would be interested in a move. We were talking solely about whether foreign clubs would be interested in an English/ British player.
United were never going to sell Maguire this summer (given how many outgoings United already have) and the following summer he will have only 2 years left on his contract. His "huge wage" is £190,000. This probably includes performance related add-ons and is before tax.
The main hurdles to selling Maguire is not whether clubs would be interested but rather whether Maguire himself and the club would be interested in moving him on.
You are exaggerating the difficulties of obtaining a visa. The following British players got visas this month:
- Tuanzebe (a look, another British CB!) to Napoli
- Maitland-Niles to Roma
Why would Maguire have a difficulty in obtaining a work visa? You could argue that maybe it is due to his court case in Greece, but that is an unusual circumstance and not reflective of most British players.
Yes, my "out of touch comparisons" which highlighted now three British CB players and another British player interested by European clubs and your comparison, a Uruguayan player who had a naturalization scandal and therefore was denied a visa.
You're kidding right? Harry is the captain and Pogba just got a yellow. If Harry wasn't trying to get Pogba out of there and let him continue to yell at the ref then there would be a problem. He did exactly what he's supposed to
Baffled by this idea I keep seeing perpetuated that Ralf has to play Harry Maguire. Why the hell would he be compelled to play Harry Maguire?! Makes no sense to me.
I'm afraid the manager has to take responsibility, he can't be absolved on such scant evidence. Well, it's not even evidence, it's a terrible theory.
If he's right to stick with him and he turns a corner (no matter how slowly) then he has correctly assessed that Harry is the best bet among a fairly lacklustre set of options. If he keeps costing us then he was wrong and maybe Lindelof is worth more of a try. Until I see something substantial that suggests otherwise the manager picks the players.
I'm afraid the manager has to take responsibility, he can't be absolved on such scant evidence. Well, it's not even evidence, it's a terrible theory.
If he's right to stick with him and he turns a corner (no matter how slowly) then he has correctly assessed that Harry is the best bet among a fairly lacklustre set of options. If he keeps costing us then he was wrong and maybe Lindelof is worth more of a try. Until I see something substantial that suggests otherwise the manager picks the players.
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Say it louder.
The whole ‘we should be scoring more against [enter team name here]’ defence for Maguire is just disingenuous. Yes we should have scored more but when you don’t that doesn’t suddenly negate defensive errors/performances. Say we scored in the 93rd minute with some tap in, how does that make Maguires performance any less troubling.
So no different to Maguire then
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