There were also no black marks from people's shoes on the wooden floors. So you want me to believe they all wore plimsoles? Come on.
Gun control
- Thread starter ukbob
- Start date
There were also no black marks from people's shoes on the wooden floors. So you want me to believe they all wore plimsoles? Come on.
Am I missing something here? Are you not allowed to hold your kids close whilst being interviewed on tv?
Is this Queen Elizardbeth's doing again. Dastardly!
Is this Queen Elizardbeth's doing again. Dastardly!
This shit is why the aliens won't visit us.
See the thing where this all falls apart, apart from the flimsy 'evidence' the conspiracy theorists put forward is they claim this was carried out to allow the US to push through new Gun control legislation
But nothing bloody happened, now when a shooting happens in the US it's common to see someone say/write "well if Sandy Hook didn't change anything nothing will"
But nothing bloody happened, now when a shooting happens in the US it's common to see someone say/write "well if Sandy Hook didn't change anything nothing will"
It's simply ridiculous when you think about the sheer amount of the people involved. To pull off a hoax like that, literally the whole town would have to be in it for decades prior to the incident, then you'd have to pull it off so flawlessly to escape the intense public attention and 24/7 media coverage, and for what gain? An elusive gun control bill that may or may not pass Congress, when the hoax of such a scale when discovered can undermine the credibility of the whole federal government and lead to a literal societal crisis?
I thought the 9/11 conspiracy theorists are a special bunch, but this takes the cake.
I thought the 9/11 conspiracy theorists are a special bunch, but this takes the cake.
Well, by the looks of it, I fear you may have become too detached for your own good. Because what you see as people refusing to accept counter narratives, I see as you failing to understand the completely natural and explainable actions of human beings in exceptional situations. For all your talk of others being susceptible to what the news tells them, you seem completely oblivious to your own susceptibility to see suspicious and dangerous motives in innocuous video clips, simply because the narrative being forced on YOU encourages you to do so..
I've watched these videos, and it does worry me... It worries me how shamelessly the micro reactions and easily explainable behaviours of traumatised people have been co-opted into something sinister with the very same media manipulation techniques you seem to decry. Anyone who thinks these amount to "potentially massive" pieces of evidence seems to me to have a very poor grasp of the human experience.
The idea that people looking bored, or nervous, or even smiling on live television after a tragic event is evidence of anything other than uncomfortableness, stress, shock or simply copying mechanisms displays a shocking lack of nuance and understanding about behaviour. One that seems to simply boil down to "well, they're not acting uniformly like grieving people do in Hollywood films"...Have you never hidden your inner emotions with an outwardly calm exterior? Have you never felt the urge to giggle at a funeral?
I was with a friend of mine this very Monday, whose father had died the previous week. It might shock you to know that he was laughing, joking and occasionally telling slightly riske jokes about it. Does this mean the whole thing is a hoax? Perhaps it's just all a big ruse to get us to donate to Cancer Research? I better instantly slander him on the internet just to shake things up a bit.
Another thing you seem wilfully ignorant (or just dismissive) of, is the unusual situation of being interviewed on live TV, something that - unless you've been interviewed on live TV (which I have btw) - you may not realise is quite a stressful situation in itself. Fidgeting, looking bored, inappropriate laughing, etc are all perfectly common in that situation, even without the added stress of having to re-live a recent horrific event that you yourself might not have fully processed. You're actually encouraged to practice what you're going to say, because neither you nor your interviewer wants you rambling on unprepared, without getting your point across.
I'd even imagine that if you were an actor by profession, this would be second nature to you. And (go with me here..I know it's far fetched) I'd probably imagine that if your child had just been callously murdered by a madman with a gun, the point you'd like to get across would be one relating to gun control, and that even the slightest possibility of you messing it up, or seeming too emotionally compromised to take seriously, could lead you to think you were letting down your murdered kin. Failing their memory, etc.
So the notion that these parents have been "selling" Obama's legislation for him, for any other reason than a perfectly understandable personal one, seems more the product of a sinister mind than a sinister conspiracy.
Even if "shaking up a bit" includes slandering the grieving, traumatised families of dead children just to get some quotes on a football forum? There was me thinking you'd just re-posted some videos that you'd seen posted elsewhere. I didn't know you'd travelled to Sandy Hook and conducted your own thorough, in depth research with the families of these victims (families who've even stated their desire to discuss and confront these conspiracies) or even the friends, co-workers, gardeners, teachers, bin men of these families...All of whom would've had to have been in on this to make it work... After all, you think it's really important, don't you? Just presumably not important enough to weigh the potentially gigantic emotional cost on the families you're accusing against the middling cost of you're own half arsed bedroom investigation.
And yet, despite the enormous effort the government would've had to go to to set up this conspiracy, let alone sell it, they still couldn't manage to just...take peoples guns away?
Out of interest, are you actually for guns? Do you think we should repeal our own gun laws in the UK? Do you think every major shooting in the US (which had almost a shooting a day last year) was set up by the government to enact a law it hasn't even been able to pass? Because while you accuse us of buying into a narrative too easily, all you seem to have done is buy into another one, created specifically by people who do think that, entirely to undermine the perfectly reasonable case for Gun Control. Well done you.
I don't know, because it's just a video with minimal context telling me it's a hoax. It could be a drill, yes. It could be the wrong footage. It could be 1001 unsinister things, including even a potential body, assuming that neither you or I have the requisite medical experience to accurately assess whether it's displaying conclusively realistic corpse movement or not...though I'm sure a Youtube comment or two can clear that up for us.
I find that pretty uncomfortable viewing too, to be honest. What kind of utter deluded cnut would create a video out of such an innocuous clip and imply it's part of some kind of sick conspiracy? What are we supposed to be outraged by here? Human beings? I'm beginning to think you haven't met any.
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And that's saying somthing.
The more he talks with the more reason's he haves for being dumb enough to be easily swayed by these ridiculously over analyzed videos it just gives more proof that he really does think he is on some sort of mission. Perhaps he needs a new tag line like "the Caf's own Fox Molder"
I like that. It's not as if, y'know, he was nervous in all the other clips either and stuttering... oh wait.
Yeah, but are you an expert in micro-expressions? I've watched all 3 seasons of Lie To Me, so I'm pretty sure I am.
Any evidence that does not support the delusional conspiracy theory is simply ignored. You know that Damien.
I like that. It's not as if, y'know, he was nervous in all the other clips either and stuttering... oh wait.
Also since the LAX shooting has come into play with a video that actually shows nothing, let me point out that when the trial begins not only will there be video evidence of the actual shooting but there are many eyewitnesses to the events who will be called. These will of course be duly ignored by the tin foil hat brigade.
Don't worry, he's about to blow the lid off the whole thing....
I like that. It's not as if, y'know, he was nervous in all the other clips either and stuttering... oh wait.
Those people are definitely standing infront of a green screen, look a the shady conspiracy agent to the left too checking the guy doesn't slip up.
I wish more of the conspiracy agents were as dedicated as him with all the slip us KingEric has posted, I mean, a crash test dummy in a wheelchair ffs!
Or they're actors. Because, you know, rather than just hire a mad gunman to shoot a bunch of people, the government has to hire an improbably large amount of out of work actors to stage the whole thing and then continue the ruse for the rest of their lives. Because this corrupt sinister evil government is actually really quite nice and safety conscious.
Clearly there is a very fundamental difference in outlook here regarding what I have put forward, as there has been all over the internet. Sandy Hook has produced some of the most polarized views I've seen and shows no signs of dying down. Such is the varied nature of people's perception and intuition.
I am not trying to force my views upon you, nor do I judge you for the 'tone' of your posts. If you see me as being susceptible as I have sometimes seen other people, that's okay, and I cannot convince you otherwise on that. What I will say is that I have had experiences in life that have forced me to completely remove myself from everything I ever knew, and that the search for truth and knowledge (in what I feel is its purest sense) has been far more important and central to my life in recent times than you have suggested. Practically my entire life is about understanding the human being and getting to realise the different expressions of the same rules of thought, emotion, desire and worry that seem to exist within every person. Without bias and without assumption. I do not think then that there is anything you could tell me about the human being, or any criticism you could make of my perceptions in this thread, that I have not already considered myself. There is simply a fundamental difference in the perception of what has been seen, and neither one of us will be able to convince the other as to why something is or is not amiss.
Perception of another human being, after all, is not mathematics; it's not something you can easily lay out to another person and prove conclusively. At the same time though, I don't think the human being is so innately incapable of assessing another person's behaviour, nor do I think we should be scared of expressing feelings concerning those intuitions providing the search for truth has been sincere.
Again, the varied ways in which stress can affect a person is something I am familiar with. However, sometimes you can be completely struck by behaviour that seems so completely artificial that it seems to lie outside of that spectrum. Robbie Parker is one such example of that, and Gene Rosen another.
That is the issue for me here; that there is behaviour in some cases that seems not to be driven by anxiety and stress, but looks to be manufactured and artificial. If you do not agree with that, that's fine. The views on this, as I have already said, have been extremely polarized. It does seem very much though that many people who had no inclination towards anything of a conspiratorial nature have really changed their minds because of Sandy Hook, so I thought it a good thing to introduce to this thread.
You have no idea about anything about me or my life. If you would like to know what I am spending great parts of every day learning about and working towards, then that is a discussion to be had through the private chat function. As it stands, I am 24 and just coming into a time in my life when I would like to make a big difference in a humanitarian sense. Travelling to Sandy Hook for me and questioning the families is not on on the agenda, nor is it financially feasible. That being said, there is more than one way to skin a cat; encouraging another perspective on Sandy Hook, 9/11 or anything else is not the only way to go about things. There are more fundamental problems in the world in my opinion that express themselves in various forms, and Sandy Hook and the dishonesty of media would be just examples of this.
Obviously when you have something that has been in the US constitution for hundreds of years, and has been a central component of many people's lives over the same period, it is not going to be an easy thing to remove. There is also something to be said for a sense of exceptionalism in the US I think, and the history of the country and the constitution I imagine that this is tied into.
Even in here you will have people who could not agree less with what I am saying, yet for other reasons feel that gun control is a violation of their rights and of the constitution in some way.
Personally, I think that the development of our military, technology and weaponry capabilities has far surpassed our ability to govern ourselves properly as a species. The ratio between that development in the former sense and our understanding of ourselves has become lopsided, and as a result I cannot say I am entirely comfortable with easy access to anything that makes it easier to kill or control.
However, if there is an agenda on the part of certain people in government - those same people who belong to the same race of humans that the above view applies to - then I think that this is something the American public should be concerned about. It's not difficult to envisage a time where fear of terrorism becomes so severe that there becomes a perceived justification for military intervention within society. If that happens in conjunction with a psychopath(s) making their way to the top of the governmental hierarchy, an unarmed population could be in a very, very serious situation. Another ingredient in the recipe for an Orwellian society.
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I have used my own eyes and do not believe that is a living human. Being told that this is the case or because it appeared on Youtube has nothing to do with it. You disagree in your views of it and that's fine with me. I do think though that, despite what you have said here about medical experience, that human beings are far too sceptical of their own perceptions. It's almost Cartesian the way that humans look at sensory perception now, actually.
Again, that is your perception, and that is fair enough. From 5:15 onwards on, to me it looks like a child that is uncomfortable and, at times, trying to wrestle away from her father. You don't necessarily need to go further than that, though really I was curious as to what people felt about it. There is an air about the parents in my opinion that is loveless and dispassionate.
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So this elaborate government plot achieved what exactly?
It's certainly done a great job of exposing KingEric7 as batshit crazy. He's still going in the face of overwhelming reason and logic.
Joe Biden: Obama, I'm worried about you! Hilary... told me terrible things!
Obama: What things?
Biden: He said... you turned to the Dark Side. That you... killed Younglings!
Obama: Hilary is trying to turn you against me.
Biden: She cares about us.
Obama: Us?
Biden: She knows. She wants to help you. Barack, all we want is your love.
Obama: Love won't save us Joe. Only my new Gun Control Legislation can do that!
Biden: But at what cost? You're a good person, don't do this!
Obama: I won't lose this Gun Control issue the way I lost Obamacare to a watered down version of my vision. I am becoming more powerful than any POTUS has ever dreamed of, and I'm doing it for US. To protect all of US!
Obama: What things?
Biden: He said... you turned to the Dark Side. That you... killed Younglings!
Obama: Hilary is trying to turn you against me.
Biden: She cares about us.
Obama: Us?
Biden: She knows. She wants to help you. Barack, all we want is your love.
Obama: Love won't save us Joe. Only my new Gun Control Legislation can do that!
Biden: But at what cost? You're a good person, don't do this!
Obama: I won't lose this Gun Control issue the way I lost Obamacare to a watered down version of my vision. I am becoming more powerful than any POTUS has ever dreamed of, and I'm doing it for US. To protect all of US!
You are just seeing what you and the idiot who made the video want to see.
Kids fidget, and on live tv I'd expect the parent to keep them close. I'd wager if I was sad enough to click on that video on youtube there'd be all sorts of vile accusations from 'truth seekers'. I'd say wait until you have kids before trying to examine what you'd do there, but I know the answer I'd get back. The only questionable thing I see there is the fact they are there in the first place.
I like a good conspiracy theory, I like to be intrigued by weird things and find it fascinating the way certain things are viewed from other persepectives, but I just don't see anything you've posted that actually makes me think there could be anything in it. This really is the most horrible conspiracy theory I've seen, and on even less tangiable evidence than crap like 9/11.
Btw I like the way you even question some of the reactions on here to you too. As if they are deliberately faked. That's serious wacko commitment right there bud
If there is an elaborate government plot, I'd say there is always room for incrementalism as opposed to the more direct action that was taken after 9/11. Not everything need be so influential as that event, and not everything has the obstacle of the 2nd amendment to overcome.
The point though is that if Sandy Hook was a false flag then you'd have to start wondering what other events are amiss. There would be something of a domino effect if Sandy Hook was exposed which would then give cause to suspect that the same thing could've happened elsewhere.
Why would they use a flase flag operation when there's almost a mass shooting a day?
Personally I think you should put Sandy Hook on your agenda. Because I'd love to see what someone thought of your pseudo loving, judgementless, hippy dippy soul searching when you told them you'd watched a short clip of them on the internet and had concluded they were loveless and dispassionate parents.
But of course despite being 24, presumably (please correct me if I'm wrong) not a parent, not the survivor of a shooting massacre, nor a veteran of live TV (let alone one of discussing massacres on live TV with your child!) you had at least made up for your lack of experience in this specific matter by "thinking a lot about it"...so, ball's in their court really, isn't it?
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You need to seek help, bud, no offence.
But why all that effort? Do you at least admit it'd take a monumental amount of planning and money to pull something like this off?
If I was in the government who committed 9/11, I wouldn't think twice about doing this for real. It'd be cheaper and easier than faking it, by a huge margin.
So did they kill the kids or not?
Those kids never existed, man! They were the latest in human-cyborg technology. The "families" are all CIA operatives. This goes right to the top, man!
Btw I like the way you even question some of the reactions on here to you too. As if they are deliberately faked. That's serious wacko commitment right there bud
Because if he had to actually believe that people were genuinely outraged by the harassment of grieving parents, he'd have to contend with the fact that he's propagating and encouraging it. And he can't do that, 'cos he wants to be a humanitarian, innit?
And I'm with you btw. I don't think all conspiracies are mental by default. The Iraq War dossier was a very recent and blatant conspiracy, for example, that we're all aware of. But this conspiracy not only makes zero sum sense in any capacity - and is thus only being discussed because it's a potential conspiracy in of itself - but is also a particularly horrid and malicious one, with tangible emotional cost.
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For someone who's supposedly spent a great deal of time understanding human beings you're really not doing a great job.
Honestly some of the most pseudo intellectual stuff I've ever read. Keep it coming though, I find it fascinating how your mind works.
Honestly some of the most pseudo intellectual stuff I've ever read. Keep it coming though, I find it fascinating how your mind works.
Here we go with the man with the Mission agenda. The problem being that he is looking at silly things like a parent pulling their child close after a tragedy (which actually is a 100% normal reaction as is children pulling away and fidgeting) rather than the real evidence of there actually being real families who have lost real children in this event.
As far as smiling in TV cameras. Actually have seen that a lot when people are interviewed on TV. It's a nervous reaction for some, for others it's a precondition response to being in front of a camera. Seen this type of reactions in witnesses to shootings, Natural disasters, accidents, etc.
Using this sort of thing as some sort of evidence actually shows a lack of critical thinking and more a matter of spending to much time making shit up in your own
Mind and then convincing yourself it's real.
This is just a fantastic assumption.
I wanna be a humanitarian and the best way to go about is to get behind a completely unsupported agenda of treating grieving families like shit including demanding their children's bodies be exhumed. That's KE's view.
I guess he has a different definition of humanitarian. But then again most of us know the difference between real evidence and silly YouTube nonsense.
I guess he has a different definition of humanitarian. But then again most of us know the difference between real evidence and silly YouTube nonsense.
It could be that. It could also be that he genuinely believes we are all out to get him.
The problem is what do we do as he gets closer to the truth? I'd say terminate first, then pay his mother, school friend and a few teachers (who evidently need sacking) to act like he never existed. We can recycle his tin foil hat collection too and help the environment to boot.
I do not want to see that a child is under any sort of distress. The first time I saw that I had a very strong reaction towards it, and thought I'd share it on here to see what other people felt. Clearly people do not see it that way.
Btw I like the way you even question some of the reactions on here to you too. As if they are deliberately faked. That's serious wacko commitment right there bud
Everyone has overreacted intentionally for one reason or another at some point, though I also question the root of the outrage too. Some say that 'conspiracy theorists' have a need to make something greater of an event for various reasons, but there are psychological reasons why a sceptic may vehemently defend their own position too.
This stuff though about being 'wacko', 'crazy', 'tin-foil hats', etc is another problem with the world, and to be honest implies a fairly loose definition of insanity. If you go through all the known history of mankind and compare other societies to the sceptical, secular contingent that exists in today's world, you'd have to conclude that about 99% of everyone that has ever existed on earth has also been some form of insane by today's standards, and that the atheist, scientific population of today are, in a sense, awake. Plato, Descartes, Handel, Mozart, the Taoists, etc with their belief in Gods, the forms, religion, etc... Whether consideration is given to the context of the time or not does not change the fact that by today's standards there are sceptics that would see these people as insane going by the loose definition of that term that seems to exist. Unless you see 'insanity' as being judged in context of a society's collective belief system.
Thing is, for all our scientific advancement and whatever else you may say is superior, we still behave in many of same insane ways that people of the past used to.
Well maybe it will work its way into things one day. As I say though, it is a subject for private chat if you have your doubts concerning my sincerity.
I do. It is probably the strongest criticism against the idea that a false flag on that scale is possible. As I say though, if Operation Northwoods was a real set of proposals, then it would seem that this line of thinking has existed within government. Furthermore, if the same applies to Project MK-Ultra, and significant developments were made into the research that was going on there, then that is something else to consider so far as amassing the sort of people that this would require is concerned. For all the laughing about tin foil hats and mind control, it is possible that a very sick and sinister operation concerning just that has happened.
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I think killing him individually would arouse too much suspicion. We'd have to bury his death in a larger massacre, which we'd stage, obviously, because we don't want to actually kill anyone. Well, apart form him... I say we hire a gunman to take just him out, then arrange for some paramedics to wheel some crash test dummies around and release some pics off google images to make it look like others were involved. But lets make sure we don't release the same pics as last time, 'cos people are starting to cotton on to that.
Also, and this is important, we should definitely make sure the actors we hire to portray his loved ones can't actually act, and are seen laughing and smiling and generally not looking sad enough every time they're interviewed.
An entire town going along with a conspiracy......you would think that alone would cause any deep thinker to well actually think. Though I bet a fair number of the tinfoil hatters would say "I never heard of Sandy Hook before the shooting, the whole town was just built by the government for this purpose despite no one from the neighboring towns noticing."
What the feck is King Eric on?
The town is right off I-84. I can't count the number of times I've seen this sign
The town is right off I-84. I can't count the number of times I've seen this sign
As a Father of 3, all I can say is that in the video the little girl looked clearly upset and distressed because she felt uncomfortable having to stand in front of a camera and listen to her worst nightmares being regurgitated over and over again. In truth, the poor little lamb looks petrified and completely bewildered. As for the Fathers grip on his child, if any of my kids had been to school and survived such a horrific event, I doubt I would be letting them out of my reach, let alone sight, for a considerable amount of time.
Like I said before, I love a good conspiracy theory, but this one is just fecking sick! As are the gimps who started all this shite. They really should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves but I doubt they have the intelligence to understand what they are doing wrong. Obviously their righteous search for the truth counts for far more than the feelings of any of the familes or victims of the shootings.
They'll be on the lookout for the dummies after that Youtube expose. You're going to have to take him out with a few other hapless but real victims if this is going to be believable. I suggest you start a thread about United signing a pre contract agreement with under 19 sensation Sandy Hook in the Transfer Forum and then take him out along with a bunch of the resident muppets once he strays in there. That way we'll not exactly miss the collateral damage.