Gun control

Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
I told you already, shits and giggles. It's a novelty item that is too heavy to be of any practical use. Do you still own a gun?
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I just want you to admit that you own and fire guns partly for the thrill. The body armour is clearly part of that. It's no biggie, when I was in Belize and thirty of us shot the hell out of the jungle, throwing grenades, raking it with GPMG, mag after mag I swear I had a hard-on. The majority of people who own guns do so because it makes them feel well 'ard and they like the power and the 'don't feck with me' vibe.

I do still own a gun. it's been in the drawer for a few years now. I've shot it once and the wife has never bothered to learn. If I had children I'd never have bought it and I'd happily turn it in if they banned handguns. I don't pose with it, and rarely think about it except 'maybe I should clean that fecking gun, it's probably full of dust and cat hair'.
 
Sure, Grinner. It's a helluva time sending lead down range. Nowt wrong with that. We do it safely and responsibly and treat the tools with the respect they deserve.

Up here the laws are such that most of us don't have the same well hard/don't feck with me vibe going on because the only guns we can tote about the place "freely" are hunting rifles and shotguns with barrels that are over 18.5"; handguns and ARs etc., are allowed to go via a reasonably direct path between your registered address and the range/gunshop/gunsmith only, so the experience of owning them is markedly different from that in the US. As a result, I tend to take a little umbrage when people tag me with labels and judgements that simply do not apply. You all know what I'm like.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
Sure, Grinner. It's a helluva time sending lead down range. Nowt wrong with that. We do it safely and responsibly and treat the tools with the respect they deserve.

Up here the laws are such that most of us don't have the same well hard/don't feck with me vibe going on because the only guns we can tote about the place "freely" are hunting rifles and shotguns with barrels that are over 18.5"; handguns and ARs etc., are allowed to go via a reasonably direct path between your registered address and the range/gunshop/gunsmith only, so the experience of owning them is markedly different from that in the US. As a result, I tend to take a little umbrage when people tag me with labels and judgements that simply do not apply. You all know what I'm like.
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I always have time for what you to say on guns mate. I have no problem with people wanting to own guns. Just lets make sure that we are not leaving all these doors open for people who should never be anywhere near a gun.

Looks like we may finally be moving in the right direction with what the President is saying today.
 
Red Dreams said:
I always have time for what you to say on guns mate. I have no problem with people wanting to own guns. Just lets make sure that we are not leaving all these doors open for people who should never be anywhere near a gun.

Looks like we may finally be moving in the right direction with what the President is saying today.
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Yeah, hope you guys get some reasonable controls in place that help curb the violence while not upsetting folks too much. Unlike most of my countrymen I quite like America and always wish you guys the best.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
Yeah, hope you guys get some reasonable controls in place that help curb the violence while not upsetting folks too much. Unlike most of my countrymen I quite like America and always wish you guys the best.
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I'm not anti-gun or even anti hunting. Even where I live I see deer crossing our roads and lawns...when I walk my dogs. They need to be culled to a point for the safety of drivers and for the long term deer poplulation to be good...though I would never be able to kill one or any animal really. But thats me.

People need to be responsible. But in this country a few for their own gains have endangered the lives of millions. In Congress and the Supreme Court. For Money. :mad: Things need to change and it will. Just need to be patient.
 
VP said:
Can't you use airguns or something for that? Or just play darts - easier and more fun.
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You can't compare an air gun with a firearm, also I own 2 bows which I used to hunt Bambi's I mean deer, I didn't like the fact I had to be on a tree stand for a long period of time so I stopped hunting for a few years now I just prefer shooting targets.
 
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Red Dreams said:
I'm not anti-gun or even anti hunting. Even where I live I see deer crossing our roads and lawns...when I walk my dogs. They need to be culled to a point for the safety of drivers and for the long term deer poplulation to be good...though I would never be able to kill one or any animal really. But thats me.

People need to be responsible. But in this country a few for their own gains have endangered the lives of millions. In Congress and the Supreme Court. For Money. :mad: Things need to change and it will. Just need to be patient.
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That's the part I don't understand, we should have a waiting period and background check like we have in New Jersey, NRA on that aspect is not helping the cause at all but then we need to watch out some politicians because they don't want gun control they want to ban guns period.
 
barros said:
That's the part I don't understand, we should have a waiting period and background check like we have in New Jersey, NRA on that aspect is not helping the cause at all but then we need to watch out some politicians because they don't want gun control they want to ban guns period.
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Really? Who exactly? What did they say?
 
Can anybody go hunting in the US? Unconnected with the licence for the gun you have to have a permit for that in Germany - same with fishing.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
Sure, Grinner. It's a helluva time sending lead down range. Nowt wrong with that. We do it safely and responsibly and treat the tools with the respect they deserve.

Up here the laws are such that most of us don't have the same well hard/don't feck with me vibe going on because the only guns we can tote about the place "freely" are hunting rifles and shotguns with barrels that are over 18.5"; handguns and ARs etc., are allowed to go via a reasonably direct path between your registered address and the range/gunshop/gunsmith only, so the experience of owning them is markedly different from that in the US. As a result, I tend to take a little umbrage when people tag me with labels and judgements that simply do not apply. You all know what I'm like.
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There you go. My point is there is something slightly inherently wrong with getting this thrill - after all it's a high derived from guns being deadly weapons. You're a reasonable guy but as a society we don't implement rules for reasonable guys.
 
barros said:
That's the part I don't understand, we should have a waiting period and background check like we have in New Jersey, NRA on that aspect is not helping the cause at all but then we need to watch out some politicians because they don't want gun control they want to ban guns period.
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barros. if there are such people, they are very few. We have a rural tradition and guns/rifles is and will remain part of our culture. But the NRA propagates this myth that we all want to take your guns. Obama's election was a boon to gun manufacturers. In fact he is the most conservative of the last 3 Democratic Preisdents. He has not really fought hard for gun control. All he is saying is that Assault weapons should not be in the hands of civilians. Most Americans agree with this. Having thorough background checks, waiting periods and some common sense rules about licensings will in fact make it less a hassle for those who genuinely need to own hunting rifles and guns. These rules will ensure people who own these weapons act responsibly. Assaault weapons must be banned. Of that I have no doubt.
 
VP said:
There you go. My point is there is something slightly inherently wrong with getting this thrill - after all it's a high derived from guns being deadly weapons. You're a reasonable guy but as a society we don't implement rules for reasonable guys.
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There isn't. You really have no idea.
 
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Red Dreams said:
barros. if there are such people, they are very few. We have a rural tradition and guns/rifles is and will remain part of our culture. But the NRA propagates this myth that we all want to take your guns. Obama's election was a boon to gun manufacturers. In fact he is the most conservative of the last 3 Democratic Preisdents. He has not really fought hard for gun control. All he is saying is that Assault weapons should not be in the hands of civilians. Most Americans agree with this. Having thorough background checks, waiting periods and some common sense rules about licensings will in fact make it less a hassle for those who genuinely need to own hunting rifles and guns. These rules will ensure people who own these weapons act responsibly. Assaault weapons must be banned. Of that I have no doubt.
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An assault rifle like the M16 costs $22 000 so I don't think the crazy Joe will buy one, also the AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle like the media keeps spiting out but a semi-automatic rifle made to look like an assault rifle, in another words they need to press the trigger for each shot. Believe me if they take a shotgun with short barrels (cut) they will be able to shoot 6 buck shells each a close range which would be more effective. The words "assault rifle" the media uses all the time makes the people think they are armed with military type of weapons which is not true.
 
barros said:
An assault rifle like the M16 costs $22 000 so I don't think the crazy Joe will buy one, also the AR-15 is NOT an assault rifle like the media keeps spiting out but a semi-automatic rifle made to look like an assault rifle, in another words they need to press the trigger for each shot. Believe me if they take a shotgun with short barrels (cut) they will be able to shoot 6 buck shells each a close range which would be more effective. The words "assault rifle" the media uses all the time makes the people think they are armed with military type of weapons which is not true.
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The fact is we need sensible gun laws and it does not help that so many politicians are beholden to the NRA the advertising arm of gun manufacturers.
 
Red Dreams said:
The fact is we need sensible gun laws and it does not help that so many politicians are beholden to the NRA the advertising arm of gun manufacturers.
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I own guns and I believe in the background check and a waiting period (like we have in New Jersey), also they should have safety training (which the trainer could refer someone to be seeing by a doc in case that person acts like Rambo) as part of owning a gun.
 
barros said:
I own guns and I believe in the background check and a waiting period (like we have in New Jersey), also they should have safety training (which the trainer could refer someone to be seeing by a doc in case that person acts like Rambo) as part of owning a gun.
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we must close the gun show loop holes and background checks need to be nationally the same. Licensing will help.
 
Red Dreams said:
we must close the gun show loop holes and background checks need to be nationally the same. Licensing will help.
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If they implement the background check and the waiting period then the loop hole would be closed, I'm against licensing since they have my name when I purchased my guns which is more than enough and licensing would be another step in raising bureaucracy at the tax payers cost.
 
Red Dreams said:
we must close the gun show loop holes and background checks need to be nationally the same. Licensing will help.
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You guys really need to sell licencing to gun owners. It's very short term pain but it can reduce/eliminate waiting periods for purchases. Most states have the right infrastructure in place, anyway, due to concealed carry permits.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
You guys really need to sell licencing to gun owners. It's very short term pain but it can reduce/eliminate waiting periods for purchases. Most states have the right infrastructure in place, anyway, due to concealed carry permits.
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I think the waiting period should be enforced, if someone wants to buy a gun on hurry we should be suspicious for a lot of reasons, wife cheating, problems at work, etc.
Also they can still have the gun shows, they just have to wait to get the guns.
 
barros said:
I think the waiting period should be enforced, if someone wants to buy a gun on hurry we should be suspicious for a lot of reasons, wife cheating, problems at work, etc.
Also they can still have the gun shows, they just have to wait to get the guns.
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Up here we have a significant wait when we get our licence, about three months or so. During that time we get background checked up the wazzoo including criminal offences and reference interviews. Once licenced, we have minimal waiting times for handguns and evil rifles purchased from a retailer (about one or two days) and your typical hunting rifle or shotty can leave the shop with you. I can even order guns online and have them shipped to my door.

Sure, there's a bit of bureaucracy and a $40 fee to deal with but it's a small price to pay. From what I know, it would be akin to expanding concealed carry requirements to everyone. That's a sensible move.
 
Red Dreams said:
Dwayne. Even if we get all the regulations and laws in place, what are your thoughts about all the military style weapons out there? An amnesty period to get them licensed? Or perhaps a buy back?
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Obviously, firearms with select fire (full auto, burst and single shot) capability, aka true assault weapons should be regulated to feck and unattainable for most people. Severe restrictions on semi-automatic firearms that look like military weapons are rather pointless for the US and will be detrimental to the cause, would be more effective to limit magazine capacity. People find ways around these restrictions, anyway. Too often the gun control side in the US demands too many and too draconian changes which result in complete rejection by the pro gun side. Compromise is the only way forward for y'all; small steps like sensible storage rules, magazine restrictions, licencing, etc.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
Obviously, firearms with select fire (full auto, burst and single shot) capability, aka true assault weapons should be regulated to feck and unattainable for most people. Severe restrictions on semi-automatic firearms that look like military weapons are rather pointless for the US and will be detrimental to the cause, would be more effective to limit magazine capacity. People find ways around these restrictions, anyway. Too often the gun control side in the US demands too many and too draconian changes which result in complete rejection by the pro gun side. Compromise is the only way forward for y'all; small steps like sensible storage rules, magazine restrictions, licencing, etc.
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very much agree. small steps without vilifying gun owners and hunters especially.
 
Red Dreams said:
very much agree. small steps without vilifying gun owners and hunters especially.
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My mom always said you catch more flies with honey. That's the approach that needs to be used. For all the millions of guns and gun owners you have only a very small percentage of those committing heinous acts. As you say vilifying those people who aren't doing bad things isn't going to win them over.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
My mom always said you catch more flies with honey. That's the approach that needs to be used. For all the millions of guns and gun owners you have only a very small percentage of those committing heinous acts. As you say vilifying those people who aren't doing bad things isn't going to win them over.
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our problem is politicians who take money from the NRA. They are willing to see these occasional shootings so long as they get their money.
 
Red Dreams said:
our problem is politicians who take money from the NRA. They are willing to see these occasional shootings so long as they get their money.
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The best I can say is to focus attention on the preventable deaths. As shocking and terrible as they are, nobody sees the large scale massacres coming and only a complete ban could (potentially) prevent them, but the kids who find a gun under the bed and kill themselves or a friend/sibling, the troubled teen who commits suicide with the family gun, and the "classic" crime of passion can all be prevented by not leaving loaded guns lying around. Start there and you go some way to showing people that some level of gun control is effective and doesn't infringe on 2nd Amendment rights. I guarantee you what I suggest above will save between 600 and 1000 lives every year, mostly young lives, too.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
The best I can say is to focus attention on the preventable deaths. As shocking and terrible as they are, nobody sees the large scale massacres coming and only a complete ban could (potentially) prevent them, but the kids who find a gun under the bed and kill themselves or a friend/sibling, the troubled teen who commits suicide with the family gun, and the "classic" crime of passion can all be prevented by not leaving loaded guns lying around. Start there and you go some way to showing people that some level of gun control is effective and doesn't infringe on 2nd Amendment rights. I guarantee you what I suggest above will save between 600 and 1000 lives every year, mostly young lives, too.
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agree mate.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
My mom always said you catch more flies with honey. That's the approach that needs to be used. For all the millions of guns and gun owners you have only a very small percentage of those committing heinous acts. As you say vilifying those people who aren't doing bad things isn't going to win them over.
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Problem is, you catch even more flies with shit and the NRA have it in far greater quantities than the democrats will ever have of honey, as @Red Dreams said whilst there's so many politicians in the NRA's pockets the chances of anything significant changing are nil.
 
Bury Red said:
Problem is, you catch even more flies with shit and the NRA have it in far greater quantities than the democrats will ever have of honey, as @Red Dreams said whilst there's so many politicians in the NRA's pockets the chances of anything significant changing are nil.
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So...your message is don't bother trying at all, or did you miss the part about making small, incremental changes to get the people who will be impacted the most on side?

This is the problem with this debate, both sides are all or nothing. The result is a stalemate and people keep dying needlessly.
 
Red Dreams said:
compromise is the key word. But you need two sides to agree to do this.

problem is these days politicians are blatantly obvious they are on the take. They know their base hates the other side with a venom. So the deaths keep coming.
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This is certainly a valid point, which is why I think the control side needs to step back and restate their goals. The NRA puts it simply as they want to take your guns, and everybody who's got a gun grumbles and says "from my cold dead hands". Make the message such that the goal is reducing the number of needless deaths and not rounding up everyone's piece(s). Drive home who is dying as a result of some of the irresponsibility; little kids, troubled people who need help and support, people who were simply going about their lives minding their own business.
 
Dwazza von Moosesteiger said:
This is certainly a valid point, which is why I think the control side needs to step back and restate their goals. The NRA puts it simply as they want to take your guns, and everybody who's got a gun grumbles and says "from my cold dead hands". Make the message such that the goal is reducing the number of needless deaths and not rounding up everyone's piece(s). Drive home who is dying as a result of some of the irresponsibility; little kids, troubled people who need help and support, people who were simply going about their lives minding their own business.
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the problem Dwayne is that there is such a gulf between both sides and it is widening. No trust whatsoever. Not just about guns but about almost everything. I saw this discussion on MTP some weeks back and this 'moderate' republican was treated as if he was a Democrat by this Tea party 'economist'. The goodwill is gone. But we must not give up. For the sake of all those who died and the many more that will die.
 
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