Honestly, faced with the choice between fighting an unarmed burglar with my bare hands, or fighting off a gun-toting burglar with another gun, I know what I'd choose.
Gun control
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Honestly, faced with the choice between fighting an unarmed burglar with my bare hands, or fighting off a gun-toting burglar with another gun, I know what I'd choose.
Yep, easy option that one. Gun's won't deter someone from breaking into your house. All that it does is mean that the person breaking in will have a gun themselves.
Since when do burglars always carry guns?
Well I don't get burgled all the time either. Its assumed that there's an element of chance involved. And whatever I can do to minimise the chance of frikking gunshots going off in the house containing my sleeping wife and son, yeah I'll be doing that.
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Firearms were used in 41.4 percent of the robberies for which the UCR Program received additional information in 2010. In a nearly equal percentage of robberies (42.0 percent), strong-arm tactics were used, followed by knives and cutting instruments used in 7.9 percent of robberies, and other dangerous weapons used in 8.8 percent of robberies in 2010. (Based on Table 19.)
When you just copy paste Xenforo seems to bring the formatting along. There's a way to get around it but I can't remember it.
Anyway, obviously that's the case in the USA since guns are legal. I've hardly ever heard of anyone bringing a gun along in Denmark. I'm trying to see if I can find some stats now.
In the reply box, at the very right there's two buttons. The one to the left (a letter T, underlined, with a small x) clears formatting.
The issue is escalation. If a burglar knows a home owner is likely to have a gun guess what happens.
And thanks on the format thing @bishblaize should have caught that.
If it's just for home invasions though?
For example I have found a statistic which shows the percentage of guns involved in different robberies in Germnay in 2012:
Bank robberies: 53.6%
Stores etc: 38.2%
Robbery of vehicle drivers: 15.8%
Cash transports: 12%
Robberies in homes: 6.3%
Yep that happens as well I would think.
Nice. I couldn't find any thing on the situation in Denmark, it's probably about the same.
Good catch. Homes were 30% of the combined data. Would like to see it just for homes.
I would imagine if a burglar knew a property had a firearm, they wouldn't say 'i'll take one too' they will just not rob the house, especially when the law permits you to shoot intruders who are threat to you and your families well being, quite right i say, they shouldn't be in your home.
To be fair though you don't hear of many home break-ins nowadays, maybe that's something to do with surveillance, camera's are everywhere and most people have camera phones/webcams etc - Not sure how it is in America, but there's lots of space, a second amendment wouldn't work in Britain as things are too cramped up. Get into an argument with a noisy neighbor, it will turn into one of these:-
To be fair though you don't hear of many home break-ins nowadays, maybe that's something to do with surveillance, camera's are everywhere and most people have camera phones/webcams etc - Not sure how it is in America, but there's lots of space, a second amendment wouldn't work in Britain as things are too cramped up. Get into an argument with a noisy neighbor, it will turn into one of these:-
Could imagine it's even lower because the number of guns per capita is a lot lower.
I think less than half the number of Germany which has similar numbers to France, Norway, Sweden, Finland. Even though I could imagine a lot of guns in Scandinavian countries are hunting weapons and not necessarily all of them are convenient for robberies.
Of course you never know exactly how many unregistered guns are flying around in either country.
I just thought it is a bit more telling than a simple average number because robberies of banks and stores will obviously have much higher percentage of guns -even though they will probably be a lot less robberies of banks than homes- and thus drag the whole average up a good bit.
Yeah, would be really interesting to see that number for the US. Will probably be a lot lower than the average, too.
I'm surprised anyway that homes get robbed. I mean, is it really THAT inconvenient to wait until I'm out of my house to steal from me?
Sorry, what is being debated here, total 'elimination' of guns or just 'controlling' the full/semi automatics?
I imagine both. Everyone has a different take on it.
Both really. Though I think most people agree that full/semi automatic weapons shouldn't be available full stop to the public, so the debate probably revolves more around hand guns
I'm for the total elimination of guns. It's just so fecking stupid. They serve no purpose other than killing things, be it people or animals. We don't need to be doing either. I live in Chicago now and the amount of gang related violence here is just ridiculous. On July 4th weekend this year 89 people got shot. Of those 89 only 13 were the intended targets. The rest were bystanders/caught in the cross fire. About 8 or 9 died. In one weekend.
Just recently the city of Chicago voted to allow conceal and carry. i.e. that with a permit, private citizens can carry a hidden firearm in public. Within 24hrs of accept applications, 13,000 had been filed. Great, just what we need. More, untrained, action hero wannabees walking around with firearms. There was a line in 'Shoot 'em Up' (fun but ridiculous movie). "A pussy can become a tough guy, if he's got a gun in his hand". Whatever happened to people just duking it out if they had differences? People shoot each other over parking spots, road rage, neighbourly disputes, women etc at the drop of a hat. Not to mention the police basically just gun you down if you reach for your wallet. Especially if you're from an ethnic minority.
There's so many guns out there in this stupid country now, that it'll be impossible to control. Highly doubt you could ever clean this mess up. Not to mention the strength of the gun lobby, who successfully have enough senators in their back pocket and do a good job of scaring lots of Americans into thinking that they need a gun to be safe. Knife the lot of them, I say.
/rant.
Just recently the city of Chicago voted to allow conceal and carry. i.e. that with a permit, private citizens can carry a hidden firearm in public. Within 24hrs of accept applications, 13,000 had been filed. Great, just what we need. More, untrained, action hero wannabees walking around with firearms. There was a line in 'Shoot 'em Up' (fun but ridiculous movie). "A pussy can become a tough guy, if he's got a gun in his hand". Whatever happened to people just duking it out if they had differences? People shoot each other over parking spots, road rage, neighbourly disputes, women etc at the drop of a hat. Not to mention the police basically just gun you down if you reach for your wallet. Especially if you're from an ethnic minority.
There's so many guns out there in this stupid country now, that it'll be impossible to control. Highly doubt you could ever clean this mess up. Not to mention the strength of the gun lobby, who successfully have enough senators in their back pocket and do a good job of scaring lots of Americans into thinking that they need a gun to be safe. Knife the lot of them, I say.
/rant.
How is that 6.3% calculated though? I'd guess that there are very few burglars caught at the scene and the 6.3% are the ones who were confronted by home owners and drew their weapons, the remaining 93% are hardly likely to admit they were carrying a gun if they are collared later as that would only increase the sentence.
Had an idiot mate in my youth who went down for house breaking, he just went along with someone else who had heard a rumour that the house was empty and rich pickings but they were confronted at the scene at which point he pulled out a replica handgun that my mate had no idea he was carrying. The prat went down for 10 years for armed robbery rather than a couple for B&E.
This is a statistic from the police for robberies (meaning there has to be violence involved or the threat to to harm or even take the life of the person). Simple thefts when either no one is in the house or people are asleep and only realize the next morning that stuff is missing are not included.
Which means that not 6.3% were confronted by the owners; 100% were confronted by the owners but only 6.3% of them had a gun. The other 93.7% had either other weapons (knife, hammer, baseball bat...whatever) or even no weapon at all to harm or threaten to harm the owners.
To take the example of your idiot mate:
If they would have been in Germany and their plan had worked. Say, the house would have been empty, they steal some stuff and escape without anyone confronting them it wouldn't be included in the robbery statistic above.
Only the way it went down as you described it that the burglary went wrong and they got confronted and a replica gun was used to threaten the owners it became a robbery.
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http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check
10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down
Fact-checking some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments shows they're full of holes.
By cutting off federal funding for research and stymieing data collection andsharing, the National Rifle Association has tried to do to the study of gun violence what climate deniers have done to the science of global warming. No wonder: When it comes to hard numbers, some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments are full of holes.
Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1.
Sources: Congressional Research Service (PDF), Small Arms Survey
Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higherthan those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements. Update: A recent study looking at 30 years of homicide data in all 50 states found that for every one percent increase in a state's gun ownership rate, there is a nearly one percent increase in its firearm homicide rate.
Sources: Pediatrics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down
Fact-checking some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments shows they're full of holes.
By cutting off federal funding for research and stymieing data collection andsharing, the National Rifle Association has tried to do to the study of gun violence what climate deniers have done to the science of global warming. No wonder: When it comes to hard numbers, some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments are full of holes.
Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1.
Sources: Congressional Research Service (PDF), Small Arms Survey
Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higherthan those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements. Update: A recent study looking at 30 years of homicide data in all 50 states found that for every one percent increase in a state's gun ownership rate, there is a nearly one percent increase in its firearm homicide rate.
Sources: Pediatrics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/03/nra-mother-jones-gun-myths-videos
NRA Fires Back in Defense of Gun Myths
The gun lobby takes aim at Mother Jones for fact-checking its favorite talking points.
In "10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down", I collected a range of research and statistics that challenge some of pro-gun advocates most popular sound bites. The National Rifle Association took notice and has been returning fire with a series of short videos attacking the "media misinformation." The clips score a couple of good points, but they're far from bulletproof. So let the debunking of the debunking of the debunking begin!
NRA Fires Back in Defense of Gun Myths
The gun lobby takes aim at Mother Jones for fact-checking its favorite talking points.
In "10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down", I collected a range of research and statistics that challenge some of pro-gun advocates most popular sound bites. The National Rifle Association took notice and has been returning fire with a series of short videos attacking the "media misinformation." The clips score a couple of good points, but they're far from bulletproof. So let the debunking of the debunking of the debunking begin!
I just heard a radio commercial for a local gun range and they had the usual customers raving about how great it is kind of thing. The difference was that one of the customers was a four year old bragging about how he had shot an AR-15.
These fecking people...
These fecking people...
... and you really believe a 4 year old could stand the kickback from an ar-15? Only if they made weak ammo for that weapon.
I have no idea but surely my point holds up regardless.
AR-15s are pretty easy on the recoil, to be honest. Not sure how a four year old kid would handle one, even shooting from a bench. People are stupid.
Collapsible stock. I don't like them much just because they do fit little kids when its at its shortest. Recoil is nothing, like you said. A gun range letting a four year old talk about shooting an AR on a radio commercial is just stupid.
Seems a 14 y o kid shot his 2 cousins his (probable) girlfriend and her friend in a suspected spurned love interest. Seems this kid was jealous when the girl chose to be interested in his cousin than himself and ended up in a rampage shooting 4 kids (2 dead, 2 critical) and killing himself.
I've heard of some attempted suicide attempts due to spurned love before, but killing spree seems to be occurring more and more in teenagers.
Lifestyle, gun control, way kids are brought up...where to start? what to blame?
I've heard of some attempted suicide attempts due to spurned love before, but killing spree seems to be occurring more and more in teenagers.
Lifestyle, gun control, way kids are brought up...where to start? what to blame?
On a individual level primarily his father. It was his gun. In cases where minors commit such crimes with the weapons of their parents, their parents should go to jail for this crime.
The solution is incredible simple: ban every weapon except non-military hunting rifles. Obviously thats impossible in 'Murica.
The solution is incredible simple: ban every weapon except non-military hunting rifles. Obviously thats impossible in 'Murica.
It's impossible not to get jaded with respect to tragedies like this. I know there's a problem when my first feeling is relief that the moron didn't cause too much collateral damage (of course 1 death is too much, but still).
Wasn't it 3 deaths including himself + 2 in critical?
Yes, but it could have been much worse (cf Newtown, VT, etc)
Did anyone hear about the incredible selfless gesture by the football team from Oak Harbor, WA?
They forfeited the championship game following the Marysville, WA, school shooting. They were scheduled to play Marysville-Pilchuck. Perhaps the state UIL will award both schools a championship trophy.
My vote for Team of the Year at the next ESPY awards banquet.
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/10/24/...orfeits-football-game-league-title-to-support
They forfeited the championship game following the Marysville, WA, school shooting. They were scheduled to play Marysville-Pilchuck. Perhaps the state UIL will award both schools a championship trophy.
My vote for Team of the Year at the next ESPY awards banquet.
http://www.sbnation.com/2014/10/24/...orfeits-football-game-league-title-to-support
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check
10 Pro-Gun Myths, Shot Down
Fact-checking some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments shows they're full of holes.
By cutting off federal funding for research and stymieing data collection andsharing, the National Rifle Association has tried to do to the study of gun violence what climate deniers have done to the science of global warming. No wonder: When it comes to hard numbers, some of the gun lobby's favorite arguments are full of holes.
Myth #1: They're coming for your guns.
Fact-check: No one knows the exact number of guns in America, but it's clear there's no practical way to round them all up (never mind that no one in Washington is proposing this). Yet if you fantasize about rifle-toting citizens facing down the government, you'll rest easy knowing that America's roughly 80 million gun owners already have the feds and cops outgunned by a factor of around 79 to 1.
Sources: Congressional Research Service (PDF), Small Arms Survey
Myth #2: Guns don't kill people—people kill people.
Fact-check: People with more guns tend to kill more people—with guns. The states with the highest gun ownership rates have a gun murder rate 114% higherthan those with the lowest gun ownership rates. Also, gun death rates tend to be higher in states with higher rates of gun ownership. Gun death rates are generally lower in states with restrictions such as assault-weapons bans or safe-storage requirements. Update: A recent study looking at 30 years of homicide data in all 50 states found that for every one percent increase in a state's gun ownership rate, there is a nearly one percent increase in its firearm homicide rate.
Sources: Pediatrics, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
Nice.
Guns should be banned flat-out.
Agree with the bottom, but not with the top. The parents should not face jail-time unless they were totally negligent - eg, leaving the gun(s) out in the open, not locked away, etc.
Thankfully John Howard and co. fought for this here in Australia - how many school shootings have you heard about since this happened?
Did we have any? We've never had silly military grade weapons available. Howard banned semi-automatic rifles after Port Arthur.
Not that I can recall... I am (just turned) 28 though so I barely remember the Port Arthur massacre, let alone anything that happened prior to that.
Howard and co, especially the politician from Queensland (whose name defeats me) were fantastic in fighting to get the law through after the massacre.
Even a broken clock tells the right time twice a day, as they say.
I wouldn't go that far. We still have rubbish gun laws - just not the very worst weapons any more.