Guardian- 2 Deals Provisionally Agreed for Summer

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Five pages of piss taking about Leon Osman and co....

I am petrified about Moyes being given the opportunity to strengthen the squad with millions of pound. Absolutely terrified!If it is indeed Carvalho and Shaw, I will be more than a little bit happy though.
 
I'm not particularly happy with Fellaini and while Mata's good I don't think he's what we needed. He cost so much money that we're now guaranteed to make him a key player which either means that Kagawa will leave because of limited playing time or we'll fit them both in and have a serious lack of pace going forward.
 
Brwned said:
I'm not particularly happy with Fellaini and while Mata's good I don't think he's what we needed. He cost so much money that we're now guaranteed to make him a key player which either means that Kagawa will leave because of limited playing time or we'll fit them both in and have a serious lack of pace going forward.
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Do you think on Kagawa's performances so far he deserves a first team place?
 
Brwned said:
I'm not particularly happy with Fellaini and while Mata's good I don't think he's what we needed. He cost so much money that we're now guaranteed to make him a key player which either means that Kagawa will leave because of limited playing time or we'll fit them both in and have a serious lack of pace going forward.
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Well Mata > Kagawa so if that means Kagawa should leave, so be it. He's hardly done anything in a United shirt anyway.
 
Twigginater said:
Do you think on Kagawa's performances so far he deserves a first team place?
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Yes, but that's more to do with how poor his competition has been more than anything else. Since Mata's been here he's performed at a similar level to Kagawa. If we don't adapt our style of play then neither of them will be able to establish themselves as key players. If we do adapt our style of play to get the most out of this sort of player they'll be two of the best players in our team, IMO. I just think having two of them is an unnecessary luxury at this point.
 
Brwned said:
Yes, but that's more to do with how poor his competition has been more than anything else. Since Mata's been here he's performed at a similar level to Kagawa. If we don't adapt our style of play then neither of them will be able to establish themselves as key players. If we do adapt our style of play to get the most out of this sort of player they'll be two of the best players in our team, IMO. I just think having two of them is an unnecessary luxury at this point.
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I'm hoping that if we're giving Moyes time, then his current plan is to slowly morph us to a 4-2-3-1. I'm hoping that some of those positions are filled by Kagawa and Mata. I'm hoping Felliani can get his place in that two. I think if Carvalho and Shaw are two players that join us they're significantly better than what we've seen this year.
 
Fellaini has been average. Put in some promising displays mixed with some utter shockers. I'm willing to give him a bit more time to settle, he's had injuries too.

I've been more disappointed in Mata to be quite honest.
 
I think Mata and Fellaini have been good in the matches against the lower teams in the league.

I'm hoping that with a bit more confidence throughout the squad and a proper preseason with us they can start to help us against the bigger teams as we move forward. This year I'm just happy to beat the shitesters at home for now.
 
The team played horribly against Liverpool and he was one of the least terrible. That's not something to be proud about
 
Redo91 said:
Please tell me you aren't happy with the signing of Fellaini for £27.5 million! The man is worth half that and even then that is being kind.
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I don't care about money spent whatsoever and I do think Fellaini has improved us yes. Since he come back from injury (he was mostly piss before that but he had no preseason and was carrying an injury so you can't really knock him) he's been one of our better players
 
Twigginater said:
I don't care about money spent whatsoever and I do think Fellaini has improved us yes. Since he come back from injury (he was mostly piss before that but he had no preseason and was carrying an injury so you can't really knock him) he's been one of our better players
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Surely the price paid for him is relevant? If we pay that much for Fellaini god knows what we will pay for top quality players. You expect a far better player than Fellaini for what we paid for him. At the very least one that can play a bit and not a hatchet man. Against City and Liverpool he was terrible (as was most of our team). I also thought he was very poor yesterday in comparison to the rest of the team. His passing range is so limited. Even the simple 10-15 yard passes he plays with very little pace or behind the intended target.
 
Redo91 said:
Surely the price paid for him is relevant? If we pay that much for Fellaini god knows what we will pay for top quality players. You expect a far better player than Fellaini for what we paid for him. At the very least one that can play a bit and not a hatchet man. Against City and Liverpool he was terrible (as was most of our team). I also thought he was very poor yesterday in comparison to the rest of the team. His passing range is so limited. Even the simple 10-15 yard passes he plays with very little pace or behind the intended target.
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He generally wins the ball back quite a bit, keeps possession and wins a lot of balls in the air. I don't see what he does wrong really (in every game bar the City game) he seems composed and has seen a dramatic upswing in our results and goals (that's what it feels like anyway, I'm probably massively wrong)
 
Twigginater said:
He generally wins the ball back quite a bit, keeps possession and wins a lot of balls in the air. I don't see what he does wrong really (in every game bar the City game) he seems composed and has seen a dramatic upswing in our results and goals (that's what it feels like anyway, I'm probably massively wrong)
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I agree he wins the ball back and he wins a lot in the air. Personally I feel he gives away the ball far too much, especially considering he mostly keeps it simply and you really see him attempting decisive forward passes. There's no doubt he is a good ball winner but my point is you would expect more than that for what we paid for him. I felt at the time we signed him we would have been better of going for James McCarthy who is a better player and younger. Ironically enough Everton replaced Fellaini with him for nearly half the price.
 
Redo91 said:
I agree he wins the ball back and he wins a lot in the air. Personally I feel he gives away the ball far too much, especially considering he mostly keeps it simply and you really see him attempting decisive forward passes. There's no doubt he is a good ball winner but my point is you would expect more than that for what we paid for him. I felt at the time we signed him we would have been better of going for James McCarthy who is a better player and younger. Ironically enough Everton replaced Fellaini with him for nearly half the price.
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He hardly ever gives the ball away passing. Certainly no more than anyone else we have.
 
Twigginater said:
He hardly ever gives the ball away passing. Certainly no more than anyone else we have.
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I think he gives it away quiet a bit. When he does keep possession it is usually with a simple pass back to one of our CB's. When it is a pass in the final third more often than not he gives it away. He has never been renowned as a good passer. Fair enough if you think otherwise.
 
Lot of people on this forum incapable of giving Fellaini a chance because of his price tag and/or physical appearence. Our midfield woes have been put on his shoulders this season which is unfair. Fellaini, while not setting the world on fire, hasnt done much wrong.
 
Ramshock said:
Lot of people on this forum incapable of giving Fellaini a chance because of his price tag and/or physical appearence. Our midfield woes have been put on his shoulders this season which is unfair. Fellaini, while not setting the world on fire, hasnt done much wrong.
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He hasn't done much right either too, but I agree with the sentiment. He's done better for us than say, Carrick and Cleverley, have done this season.
 
Ramshock said:
Lot of people on this forum incapable of giving Fellaini a chance because of his price tag and/or physical appearence. Our midfield woes have been put on his shoulders this season which is unfair. Fellaini, while not setting the world on fire, hasnt done much wrong.
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He is being unfairly judged but he's an average player and shouldn't be more then a squad player, if we had a normal United quality midfield.
 
Twigginater said:
Almost half the people in this thread had him in their top three players

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/motm-vs-liverpool-h.386574/

Maybe you're just misremembering or go against what most people think?
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Independent - rating 3.0
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...d--steven-gerrard-or-luis-suarez-9195839.html

only Vidic has the same rating.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/manchester-united-0-3-liverpool-heres-3251042

rating 4.0. only RvP has lower.

http://www.squawka.com/news/2014/03...layer-ratings-from-old-trafford/2014031683630

Marouane Fellaini (-5) - After two good performances, the Belgian was poor and dominated in midfield. Completed just 83% of his passes.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...verpool-stars-stacked-up-in-Old-Trafford-show

MAROUANE FELLAINI: Struggled to find a foothold and sat so deep it merely invited Liverpool to attack - 5. (lowest rating)

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co...-news/manchester-united-0-liverpool-3-6838718

Only Vidic and Rafael have lower ratings.

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So, no I'm not misremembering.

PS: half of the people had Rafael as MOTM which for anyone who watched it is criminal.
 
Would be thrilled if the two deals, if true, is Shaw and Carvalho. Correct steps in the right direction as its two positions that are in massive need of additions. Whether it was Moyes or not in charge, these two players are the type we should be aiming for. Young and the ability to be world class.
 
Fellaini analysis in the Fellaini thread please
 
@Twigginater as CM he has not been dominant in mid.. Has been putting in nice tackles and making runs into the box but not bossing games.. Don't really think that's part of his game, so calling him impressive when our midfield is being overrun can be a bit farfetched.

I think he is the marker for the next CM players we'll be signing and that will only be good news..

If we have already identified the lads we wanna bring in and trying to get it sorted before WC sound great to me.. Shows the manager is already figured out what he needs and what direction he wants to head..
Just hoping they are defenders coz a strong foundation is necessary if we wanna compete, won't be disappointed if they are CMs either..
 
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Redo91 said:
Please tell me you aren't happy with the signing of Fellaini for £27.5 million! The man is worth half that and even then that is being kind.
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Twigginater said:
I don't care about money spent whatsoever and I do think Fellaini has improved us yes. Since he come back from injury (he was mostly piss before that but he had no preseason and was carrying an injury so you can't really knock him) he's been one of our better players
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Redo91 said:
Surely the price paid for him is relevant? If we pay that much for Fellaini god knows what we will pay for top quality players. You expect a far better player than Fellaini for what we paid for him. At the very least one that can play a bit and not a hatchet man. Against City and Liverpool he was terrible (as was most of our team). I also thought he was very poor yesterday in comparison to the rest of the team. His passing range is so limited. Even the simple 10-15 yard passes he plays with very little pace or behind the intended target.
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The money issue is important, but not neccesarily in terms of ‘value‘ or what we'll end up paying for others.
Lets take a trip back to the summer. There were reports early on about fellaini being spotted at the post season party...although i dont think this is true, the more interesting 'leak' was that moyes 'didnt think he was good enough'.
We then have the fact he had a £20m release clause. I think it was clear not only to us, but to woodward et al that the obvious question was why had no other club gone in for him at £20m? Because he obv wasnt worth it. We used that fact to get him on the cheap as done sort of bizarre dual deal with baines. When that didnt work we went just for baines.
Post fabregas etc we let the 20m clause expire, we were somehow convinced we would get someone else. When we didnt, we panicked and got well and truly shafted by everton.
End of day what this summer taught us was that we didnt value fellaini at even 20m (nobody did). Moyes wasn't 100% convinced fellaini was good enough for utd (nobody did). And woodward made a complete feckwit of himself in getting players, pissed off everton and they took great delight in screwing us.
Its not fellaini's fault
 
Twigginater said:
He generally wins the ball back quite a bit, keeps possession and wins a lot of balls in the air. I don't see what he does wrong really (in every game bar the City game) he seems composed and has seen a dramatic upswing in our results and goals (that's what it feels like anyway, I'm probably massively wrong)
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Welbeck and Fellaini had their moments against City, but they were the main reasons why we played so bad as well. The positioning was horrible and it allowed Liverpool so much space in midfield, it was proper junior level. All they had to do was shift the ball fast to the sides and it was wide open. It was a bit better against Liverpool and he put him self about well in the first half. But, he still lacked some in positioning when the Liverpool had the ball.

He has been better than the start though, because then he didn't have the presence he has now.
 
Just watching Villa match now as I was busy - good god we need a good CM so so badly. It's getting so desperate that we are really going to have to overpay for a top class ball playing CM. So many times Jones and Vida have the ball here and nobody is looking for it... Pathetic seeing Mata running half the pitch to get the ball
 
Crashoutcassius said:
Just watching Villa match now as I was busy - good god we need a good CM so so badly. It's getting so desperate that we are really going to have to overpay for a top class ball playing CM. So many times Jones and Vida have the ball here and nobody is looking for it... Pathetic seeing Mata running half the pitch to get the ball
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We chose Foullaini over him.
 
Crashoutcassius said:
Just watching Villa match now as I was busy - good god we need a good CM so so badly. It's getting so desperate that we are really going to have to overpay for a top class ball playing CM. So many times Jones and Vida have the ball here and nobody is looking for it... Pathetic seeing Mata running half the pitch to get the ball
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When Giggs played CM against Olympiakos it made a massive difference having a CM who wanted the ball, could use the ball, and was a bit creative. The vacuum of a ball playing creative midfielder is there for all to see, Fellaini and Mata aren't that, we desperately need to recruit one this summer.
 
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