Not that the Osman jokes were ever funny, but do people not even get bored even typing them now?Osman and Jagielka?
Guardian- 2 Deals Provisionally Agreed for Summer
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
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He was league player of the month twice up until Christmas.
In case you havent read this report man, its from mid-Jan - its a good read:
http://outsideoftheboot.com/2014/01/08/william-carvalho-scout-report/#
Small snipit:
"William Carvalho has played a major role in Sporting’s renaissance this season. In several matches the holding midfielder has completely ruled the centre of the pitch, simultaneously snuffing out any threat from the opposition by making timely interceptions, and setting Sporting’s attacking movements in motions with accurate passes. Like all great footballers, Carvalho seems to have more time on the ball than other players and keeps thing beautifully simply yet clinically effective. Barring injury, the 21-year-old is a shoe-in for Portugal’s World Cup squad and it is not beyond the realms of possibility that he will be a starter in Brazil.”
Sounds promising. I must say, I put more faith in the Guardian and the like than the red tops.
This summer is crucial - whether Moyes stays long term or not. Seems they are targetting the right sort of players whomever is in charge. I also dont believe that the not being in the CL will have the fatal impact some think - we're a big club, will seemingly spend big money and the players involved can expect good wages in a high profile league.
We can hopefully close the gap on City and Chelsea. Arsenal and Liverpool will be worried unless they can spend, especially Liverpool who might have brig problems squadwise with CL football on top of the usual schedule.
My bet is on Carvalho and Coentrao, they are both players we have been linked with for a long time. Carvalho has already been scouted like a dozen times and we have probably given the Green light on getting him (may even include paying the release clause to be certain we'll snap him up). Coentrao would have already been a United player if not for Madrid pulling the plug at the end of the transfer window. They have been linked with serious interest in Moreno and I could see Real maybay offering him to us for a modest fee and Coentrao for a modest would be a good bit of business and if we can do it before the world cup I'd see us takking it. So if this rumour is true I think those are the 2 most likely names.
Hypothetically with these 5 or 6 players coming in to the club, how would people feel about potentially having 20m+ squad players? Or would people be of the position that the fee doesn't matter?
Most top teams have squad players of around that price. £20m buys you very little nowadays, in footballing terms. Of course in real terms that sort of money on a football is obscene. But that's another day's work.
I don't see how it matters, football is now at the point where if you want to be at the top you have to be prepared to spend that sort of money on players that might only be squad players. As a fan I'm not watching a game worrying about how much the collective players on the bench are worth.
I'm sure we'd all say that the fee doesn't matter but as soon as they show signs of not justifying the price tag, people will lynch 'em (Fellaini)
Yup, £20 million seems fair game for a quality squad player these days.
Fee doesn't really matter, you have to earn your place on the field. I'am sure the club only tries to bring in players who they think are good enough to earn their place on the field either immediatly or in the future. Ofcourse they bring in more players than there are spots, you need back up for injurries or suspensions, the same players can't play all games and you also want options if some players aren't doing allright. This sorta creates a split in first teamers and squad players but I don't really think the club plan on that, I think they buy everybody as potential first team quality but the situational factors (who develops his potential and who doesn't, which players work well together etc) make it so that some players play more than others. The fee that you pay is a result from the combination of how bad you need the player, how hard the negotiations where with the club and player, contractual situations etc and the club doesn't really plan on we'll spend max so much on squad players and so much on first teamers. We spend what have to bring in those players we want to for fees we think are fair given the circumstances and if that includes spending £20m on a player that later on turns out to be not much more than a squad player because he didn't realise his potential or because there are other players in the club who are outperforming him than so be it. The price tag and wheter a player deserves to play alot or not have nothing to do with eachother. Ofcourse it is true than when you have a bench full of players for whom you spend a small fortune you may not have been doing your transfer business in a good way but you always need to look at the situational factors.
It was a question based on a few things. I've seen people on here openly mock City/Chelsea for the way they chuck money around and now United could be doing the same, although, they are in the situation where they need to inject a bit of cash into their system but you could end up spending around 200m in 3 windows which is a bloody lot for a club which won't even be in the CL.
Plus, paying 37m for someone like Carvalho pretty much guarantees he'll be playing (ala Mata, fitting them into the side to justify the fee even if it doesn't happen to be in their best position), and then i doubt Gundogan/Kroos will be less than 20m either so you'll most likely be sitting Fellaini on the bench unless you go for a 3 man midfield, but then Mata would still be played out of position. It's just a bit odd...but i suppose not a lot of clubs have been in this position apart from Liverpool really...it will be interesting how it plays out.
Where would this leave people like Januzaj for example do you think? In terms of him being one of your brightest sparks this year but potentially being put back in his development with probable less chances?
Plus, paying 37m for someone like Carvalho pretty much guarantees he'll be playing (ala Mata, fitting them into the side to justify the fee even if it doesn't happen to be in their best position), and then i doubt Gundogan/Kroos will be less than 20m either so you'll most likely be sitting Fellaini on the bench unless you go for a 3 man midfield, but then Mata would still be played out of position. It's just a bit odd...but i suppose not a lot of clubs have been in this position apart from Liverpool really...it will be interesting how it plays out.
Where would this leave people like Januzaj for example do you think? In terms of him being one of your brightest sparks this year but potentially being put back in his development with probable less chances?
Because we're panicking and don't have Fergie to lean back on anymore! It is a shame though I agree, we'll quite possibly get to a point where we start a team where everyone cost about £20m or more. Considering we went through an absurd number of years where we started every match with at least 1 academy product, it would be a sad change.
Where does the 200m come from?
We've spent 70m over the last two windows, I would be absolutely amazed if we spent another 140m in the summer. Won't even get close.
I think the time to come for accusing United of spending money like City or Chelsea is when we spend money like City or Chelsea. Not by totting up the potential cost of all the players we might sign. On that basis, we spend hundreds of millions of quid in every single transfer window!
@Pogue Mahone
Well, everything is hypothetical at the moment. I don't believe you'll spend that much either, but given the 2 provisional deals and Moyes probably looking to bag a few more considering his earlier season comments coupled with how this season has gone, and the media attention surrounding certain deals, it looks more likely that it could get to around the 80-120m mark. I do think you'll buy 2 key players in the window, and if the Carvalho rumour is to be believed then that could be a 37m figure. You definitely need a creator of sorts in midfield ala Gundogan so you could spend another 20m+ on a CM which would be nearly 60m on only 2 of these 5 or 6, so 130m in the 3 windows. Those 3 or 4 left would probably be about 10m+ each.
Obviously it's a lot of 'could' at this stage but it does seem like you're planning to splash the cash with intent.
@Ubik
Aye, that was kind of the other thing. I admired United as being a title challenging side and using academy players in their side, even this season you've been using Januzaj, Welbeck, Evans, Rafael (not an academy player per say but a budget signing that you've had from a young age), and it could be getting to the stage where that's not the case anymore, it would be sad. But again, this is another hypothetical thing.
I'm usually not so trustful with the media but the Guardian is one of those you can rely on more than most.
EDIT: Forgot to add that when i'm talking about the '5 or 6' i'm referring to when Moyes was saying that you needed a few more class players. I doubt that you'd spend loads on them all but he'd probably want to invest in more than just the two.
Well, everything is hypothetical at the moment. I don't believe you'll spend that much either, but given the 2 provisional deals and Moyes probably looking to bag a few more considering his earlier season comments coupled with how this season has gone, and the media attention surrounding certain deals, it looks more likely that it could get to around the 80-120m mark. I do think you'll buy 2 key players in the window, and if the Carvalho rumour is to be believed then that could be a 37m figure. You definitely need a creator of sorts in midfield ala Gundogan so you could spend another 20m+ on a CM which would be nearly 60m on only 2 of these 5 or 6, so 130m in the 3 windows. Those 3 or 4 left would probably be about 10m+ each.
Obviously it's a lot of 'could' at this stage but it does seem like you're planning to splash the cash with intent.
@Ubik
Aye, that was kind of the other thing. I admired United as being a title challenging side and using academy players in their side, even this season you've been using Januzaj, Welbeck, Evans, Rafael (not an academy player per say but a budget signing that you've had from a young age), and it could be getting to the stage where that's not the case anymore, it would be sad. But again, this is another hypothetical thing.
I'm usually not so trustful with the media but the Guardian is one of those you can rely on more than most.
EDIT: Forgot to add that when i'm talking about the '5 or 6' i'm referring to when Moyes was saying that you needed a few more class players. I doubt that you'd spend loads on them all but he'd probably want to invest in more than just the two.
Cheers mate. Good read.
I dont see us spending anywhere close to the sort of money that is being branded about. Hypothetically though, I wouldnt mind 20mil on someone like Carvalho even if he doesnt slot right into the 1st team because he's young and developing. I wouldnt want us to spend 37mil on the likes of him though.
I would have any problems with us spending significant amounts of money in the coming windows. For a club with our revenues we have underspent in recent years, and with the shrewd work we are doing off the field we have earnt our right to bring in talent. The issue with City & Chelsea has always been that they are spending someone elses money.
I don't know if they'll leave, but I'm certain you haven't agreed anything with us - provisionally or not.
If anything, we have too many expensive squad players as it is. Our squad is ridiculous oversized but lacks quality. However many players we bring in, we will get rid of that number plus 3-4 more.
I think we need at least 3 good, quality CMs, so I'm happy for Fellaini to be 3rd choice. And despite his price we all know he's not a 27m player. We can't carry on building the squad pretending that he is.
Most fans want us to sell players who we signed in the 15-20m price range. The ones that aren't really first XI quality, and if we bring in top players for the first XI then I would not want them to stay around playing backup because they would be blocking the progress of the youngsters.
So ideally I think fans want a strong first XI with top players, and then a bench consisting of a couple expensive players for competition, and then youngsters and homegrown talents as competition and backup.
So, the only expensive players I can see being squaddies next year are Fellaini and probably one of Nani/Young/Valencia who we'll keep.
Cheers for the thoughts lads.
Haha, they fecking wish
Isn't Barkely's agent David Moyes' son?
Judging by the last page, the weight of opinion is that Barkley won't be leaving... but if he were to go, surely dad would have go some kind of nod by now.
Has anyone made Moyes out, Klopp in as a joke for 2 deals provisionally agreed?
If not, then, Moyes in Klopp out...
If not, then, Moyes in Klopp out...
Not even not knowing the names motivates me anymore
I mean, "They are not concerned to play Europa League".... we're not even going to play that!!!
I mean, "They are not concerned to play Europa League".... we're not even going to play that!!!
You could have two disappointed player's if Moyes does get sacked and his successor holds no interest in them.
This was the reasoning behind a thread of mine last week. The club has to be very careful when spending big money as even if they back Moyes in the window, there is still a strong possibility of him being sacked.
Not sure about Carvalho now. After watching the City game yesterday, the last thing we need is another immobile centre midfielder, in my opinion. We need someone who is quick across the ground to press the opposition. We're far too easy to play against.
After tonight's game, what player of any quality is going to want to come to OT.
Knee Jerk, very possibly, but I still pissed off.
Knee Jerk, very possibly, but I still pissed off.
Not knee jerk, Utd will have to pay silly money (ala PSG and Monaco) to get quality players but there is absolutely no way a good player would wanna play under Moyes.
Not want to go around in circles debating certain situations but Mata signed with Moyes as a manager. Surely you rate Mata?
Mata was overpaid and the circumstances were special in a way. If there weren't any WC at the end of the season, I doubt we'd have bought him.
Plus at the end of the season the damage done to the club's image will be a lot more important than midway through the season. Utd will only buy quality players if the circumstances are "special" or if the money paid is ridiculous.
I don't trust our current decision makers to find those gems of players for decent money.
You said though there is absolutely no way a good player would want to play under Moyes. Forget the financials and timing. The fact of the matter is, Moyes signed Mata. So I wouldn't cast that wide a blanket if I were you.
I was talking about this summer transfer window and not when Mata was signed cause that's the initial point of the thread. I can't see how a quality player would wanna play under after this season.I think what I meant is clearer this way.
Yes, this season shows Moyes in a completely different light, no doubting that and while I have been hesistant on our chances to attract players next season, I still believe the lure of Manchester United will attract quaility, much like Liverpool and Suarez.
I believe that too, gotta have some realistic optimism.
That and money. Lots of money.
Suarez was nowhere near the player he is now and was serving a ban at the time Liverpool bought him - he was damaged goods. He is not the barometer for us to gauge ourselves against in ability to attract players.
Being Utd is not enough sadly. Would rvp have signed if saf hadn't been manager? Not a chance. No top player is going to want to come near moyes this summer unless we pay silly money. Everything surrounding him is negative. Having Moyes as manager next season is a risk - both in terms if performances but also our ability to get the right players.
As for Mata, i wouldn't be so sure moyes bought him. Everything about that deal had Woodward written all over it.
That may be true, but if the 'provisional deal' isn't with the club it may not be worth much. Everton were hard to negotiate with last summer and It'll be even tougher now.
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