Maybe some can try the Farage approach in this matter and create a party focused solely in rejoining the EU (My name proposals: RejoinUK or UBACK), get a sizable amount of votes/seats and simply wait for a hung parlament with a weak, Cameron like leader on the Labour side. It seems they wouldn't even have to wait that much for the last one.
General Election 2024
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Maybe some can try the Farage approach in this matter and create a party focused solely in rejoining the EU (My name proposals: RejoinUK or UBACK), get a sizable amount of votes/seats and simply wait for a hung parlament with a weak, Cameron like leader on the Labour side. It seems they wouldn't even have to wait that much for the last one.
What's with the collapse in the SNP? Are they being punished as well regarding local politics?
Agreed. But all countries have asylum processing procedures. The safe and legal routes could be set up on Friday. If the Uk haven't got the staff or facilities because the whole system has deliberately been sabotaged by the Tories how are other countries supposed to come up with staff and facilities to process them any quicker than the UK.
This stance by Starmer about "Smashing the Gangs" - about 40% are stopped without Starmer, the knight on a white charger. Police , Interpol throughout Europe are already on the case but it's impossible to stop them all. The whole operation is in place. It's so frustrating listening to the mindless narrative of Starmer and his Border Security Command nonsense.
Recent scandals and apathy. I'll be voting them though.
Has there been a TV documentary on that? I’d be interested in watching one.
I get the point you're making - but that would confirm I would be not be voting for Starmer.
Under Starmer, Labour will never attempt to start the process to join the EU. He still thinks as he has all along and in 2019 that he should get the same benefits inside and outside which led to the farcical second referendum debacle.
Either Labour get a new leader soon or another party will probably be started. It's inevitable. Starmer's just wasting years.
I can’t see rejoining the EU as being palatable in the mainstream anytime soon. The deal to rejoin would inevitably be worse than what we had before, and the negative impacts aren’t really understood or clear enough to the general public as yet. The propaganda campaign by Leave really did a number on the country.
Like the Tories they've succumbed to a few scandals and have generally been a bit shit. Swinney is also not much of a leader so far either unfortunately.
They asked him if he could see us rejoining in his life time. He said no, as he had to. If he'd equivocated even slightly, he'd have been all over the papers the day before the election. So I'm not reading anything into that.
Just saw those Starmer comments. Very depressing. I get why he might rule out rejoining the EU “in his lifetime” as there is no guarantee we would even be allowed back (and certainly not on the old terms) but to rule out even the Customs Union is pathetic. We need someone to inspire a country that’s on its arse but unfortunately it appears we’re going to have Gareth Southgate rather than Jürgen Klopp (and Starmer would probably not use those umlauts for fear of offending the red wall).
Who fecking cares? Standing down a young black man who was building momentum while running against a FASCIST is disgusting. He probably wouldn’t have won. But he was living proof that a young person of colour was willing to engage with Farage’s base and take it on. Weak as piss to back down for financial reasons. The lad was using organic social media. Taking money from that community to spend it in the Midlands is pathetic. It galvanises Farage and Reform. They now get to say they beat Labour.
My vote doesn’t matter in my constituency but that was the news that saw me decide to Lib Dem.
It’s an abhorrent decision.
Well it's certainly more realistic than Reform's and more ambitious than Tories and Labour, just in the fact its not a continuation of the disastrous austerity policies of the past 14 years. And even if its not all achievable, at least the intent is good and points the country in a positive direction.
I do wonder why it's the day before the election and you're in this thread but haven't spent 5 minutes looking at the manifestos.
You aren't being realistic. There is no way he was going to open up the rejoin question the day before the election. It is not wrong for labour to treat the EU issue as settled (for now). He was asked a gotcha question in such a way that he had to say no.
If we do ever rejoin, it will have to be a carefully crafted strategy that brings the electorate along, and that is not a job for today. It sucks, but it is the correct approach, for now.
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I don’t expect him to float re-joining. But he did not need to dismiss it so categorically- he could have given a blander answer. He’ll win tomorrow because everyone hates the Tories but at some point he will need to actually inspire people to vote for him rather than against the opposition. Also, the context is whether he wins the largest majority in history or “only” a 1997-type majority - this is not Kinnock 1992 and he does not need to retreat to the political version of a Southgate 9-1 formation after going 2-1 up to Slovakia.
Well yeah it's more realistic than reforms. Again, reform can promise whatever the feck they want, they're not getting into power
No need to wonder and be condescending. I live in a labour safe seat and have known I was voting labour for years. Id have never looked at the lib Dem manifesto as one, they're never getting my vote and two, they never getting my seat.
There's a difference between ruling out rejoining the EU proper (which I agree from an electoral standpoint he has to do right now) and going above and beyond that and ruling out even the CU/SM now.
It means that if in 10 years time he's still running for PM (which is not outside the realms of possibility) and he decides it is now time to reopen the discussion about CU/SM at least, he has this incredibly definitive statement for people to reference, from a man who is already known for u turning before he's even in charge of anything.
Don't worry his stenographers will just go into high gear to back up his claims that he never said it and anyone who remembers it will be a crank antisemite.
I'm not being condescending. I'm just genuinely confused that you're clearly curious and interested in the topic - enough so to ask my opinion of how realistic I think the manifesto is, wait for my response and reply to it. And to contribute multiple posts in this thread.
Yet somehow not interested enough to look up even a summary of the thing you're questioning me about.
I also live in a traditionally safe Labour seat. But given the shift to the right and the purge or their traditional values, for the first time in my life, they've not got my vote. So I read to see what the other parties are offering.
Ask me a year ago, and I'd have said I was voting Labour. Things have changed, as they can do in politics. It's not like choosing a football team and sticking with it for life.
It's your prerogative to change your vote, no ones calling you out, it was a question.
I did not and do not want to change mine, as is my prerogative. I've not had any interest in any other party except greens who will not be winning in my area, so it's case closed imo.
I feel like you've become touchy and patronizing over me asking how realistic their manifesto is which is a genuine question. Move on if it bothers you that much.
I dunno. My hope is that he will realise quite quickly that his current position, of trying to make what we have work better, won't really work. But at the moment, he is still operating in a Brexit context set by the Tories. In a day or two that won't be the case. It will be interesting to see what possibilities that opens up, over time. The argument isn't going to stop, it's really about when to have it IMO.
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It makes me laugh slightly how angsty this thread can get considering probably 90+% of the posters likely agree on 90+% of policies broadly.
I'm not touchy at all - I didn't even vote for them. And I couldn't cross my fingers and vote for Labour hoping Starmer's cooking up some kind of plot to say everything needed to get the press on side but will revert back to what he promised when he was elected leader.
So I voted Green. They don't have a chance, but at least I agree with what they stand for.
More reason why we need to ditch FPTP.
I hope the Lib Dems have been endorsing the Tory candidate...
Nothing wrong with that. As I explained to my Green supporting son, I am voting labour, partly to get the Tories out, but also because I think we need good government. So they are getting my backing, because there is a hell of a job to be done and they will need support doing it. Now isnt the time for protest votes, IMO.
It's not a protest, it's voting for a party with an ideology I support rather than one I don't. It's not my fault Labour have abandoned me.
It's possibly worth pointing out that whoever wins, I'm in a position where I'm now comfortable and even the awful Tory policies since 2010 haven't drastically curtailed my personal journey to being far better off and in a good position compared to many others.
However, they've fecked it up for huge swathes of the population. People in their 20s are more screwed than ever before. The outlook for them and the next generation looks bleak as feck. That's why I'm voting for someone that offers something other than simply more of the same, and doesn't blame all of the problems caused by their own low-tax, free market, dereglation, small governent ideology on a handful of immigrants.
However, they've fecked it up for huge swathes of the population. People in their 20s are more screwed than ever before. The outlook for them and the next generation looks bleak as feck. That's why I'm voting for someone that offers something other than simply more of the same, and doesn't blame all of the problems caused by their own low-tax, free market, dereglation, small governent ideology on a handful of immigrants.
I can't take the Greens seriously, they talk about wanting to building housingn and low carbon power until their NIMBY councillors get in the way. I think there is a danger of having a slightly romantic view of the Greens that isn't really matched by their reality.
To be fair, that's exactly what the Conservatives did. Policies on house building at national level were repeatedly halted by their councillors at local level.
About to get the biggest possible majority and only 5% agree with their policies…
The 2 party system works wonders.
Says it all
Yes, the narrative is infuriating. And the Tories have been so bad that if the next government was just incompetent that would be an improvement.
The Sun - the final adjudicator of what is and isn't in the service of the working people.
Kind of fitting Starmer started his leadership campaign saying he wouldn’t talk to the Sun and now ends a the general election praising the paper.
What it does show in my view is that many people don't take the time to understand what the policies actually are. And so not that many can say that they agree with them.
People don't necessarily vote because of the policies.
Voting is based on a wide range of things, including - tradition, personality and emotions.
Facts can be way down the line.
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