General Election 2024

[Frosty]

Presumably there will be mandatory genital inspections? And then bouncers on the doors who will determine who 'passes' and who does not? Might as well keep out manly looking women too, just in case.

 

[saivet]

Begrudgingly will be voting for Labour on Thursday. My constituency is ridiculously tight between Labour and the Conservatives and the Labour candidate seems alright, so I will go with her.

 

[Maticmaker]

Re:

First bold point -> Only because bad actors and disingenuous contributors conflate the two.

Second bold point -> you're not a commentator for the Daily Mail are you? This is the entire point of having a Home Office, to evaluate the claims

Third bold point -> that's the whole point of 'safe & legal routes' - so people don't have to resort to working with criminals

Fourth bold point -> yes, but that can only happen as a pincer movement between chasing down the people traffickers and opening 'safe & legal' routes as if you go after the criminals but give the people no other alternative, they'll find others to help them

FstBP
If you really believe that's all it takes, then we must be living in different worlds.
I would accept yes, a number of 'bad actors, 'the right wing press hone's in on divisions... but if you believe there would be no problem, no divisions, without such interference.... then I am afraid we shall have to agree to disagree.

SecBP (nothing to do with the Daily Mail)
The Home office is not equipped in staff and resources to sort out who gets into boats, only those who get out of them; that's why Starmer is attempting to go 'up stream' to chase the criminals.

ThiBP
Yes, of course safe and legal routes will help, but they need to be planned/ developed and resourced properly and looking to the future when the problems will be exacerbated by climate change. Again, if you truly believe that safe/legal routes will end the small boat thing completely, then once again we will have to agree to disagree.

FrBP
The larger issue of supporting and encouraging (enlarged) legal immigration (which is required) through proper planning, which will become more prevalent in the future, cannot begin until the illegal issues of unauthorised people transportation into the country is sorted first.The public at large will not engage properly with such an issue until this is done.
All leaders, know this '1st step, 2nd step' on legal immigration development is required.... and as you point out bad actors/disingenuous contributors will not let them forget!

 

[MegadrivePerson]

Begrudgingly will be voting for Labour on Thursday. My constituency is ridiculously tight between Labour and the Conservatives and the Labour candidate seems alright, so I will go with her.

Same here.

There's a real chance that my seat goes red for the first time since it was created in 1997.

As much as I'm not enthralled by Labour, the chance to see my MP (Tory cnut Fabricant) and Rishi Rich lose is what I'll be voting for.

 

[Solius]

Tories have resorted to trying to avoid getting absolutely spanked. Fearmongering about a supermajority.

 

[DavelinaJolie]

Begrudgingly will be voting for Labour on Thursday. My constituency is ridiculously tight between Labour and the Conservatives and the Labour candidate seems alright, so I will go with her.

I'm struggling to be honest. I don't think there's much question this place will go Red, but part of me wants to do my bit to make sure.

On the other hand, Lib Dems look awfully good right now to me.

 

[Vidyoyo]

Why not have trans toilets instead?

 

[saivet]

I'm struggling to be honest. I don't think there's much question this place will go Red, but part of me wants to do my bit to make sure.

On the other hand, Lib Dems look awfully good right now to me.

I might have been tempted by Lib Dems if they had a better local candidate. I generally prefer the Lib Dems manifesto to Labour though.

 

[Buster15]

I might have been tempted by Lib Dems if they had a better local candidate. I generally prefer the Lib Dems manifesto to Labour though.

That is because the liberals can literally promise anything safe in the knowledge they are not going to have to honour those pledges. Whereas labour do.

 

[Andy_Cole]

I'm at a point I couldn't care less if it"s Rishi or Keir.

 

[Pexbo]

I'm at a point I couldn't care less if it"s Rishi or Keir.

Are you still sulking about your middle class woes of 20% tax sending your kids to a school the majority of the population cannot even afford?

 

[Solius]

I'm at a point I couldn't care less if it"s Rishi or Keir.

Pardon?

 

[Vidyoyo]

I'm at a point I couldn't care less if it"s Rishi or Keir.

As a tory I agree. Both great choices

 

[Frosty]

Are you still sulking about your middle class woes of 20% tax sending your kids to a school the majority of the population cannot even afford?

It's class warfare Geoff.

 

[Fully Fledged]

Are you still sulking about your middle class woes of 20% tax sending your kids to a school the majority of the population cannot even afford?

Feck the kids going without food, or people dying in corridors in hospitals this is more important.

 

[Andy_Cole]

Are you still sulking about your middle class woes of 20% tax sending your kids to a school the majority of the population cannot even afford?

Pardon?

No it's Keir's stance on genocide which has been my biggest influence.

 

[Solius]

No it's Keir's stance on genocide which has been my biggest influence.

Fine, but not caring if Sunak stays in means you're apathetic towards 4 more years of the current rule which has wrecked the country for near 14 years.

 

[Sweet Square]

Presumably there will be mandatory genital inspections? And then bouncers on the doors who will determine who 'passes' and who does not? Might as well keep out manly looking women too, just in case.

Exactly. Journalists never ask any follow up question about how this policy would be implemented.

I guess because they know it’s impossible to enforce so the point of these questions is really for politicians to show to a right wing audience how much they hate trans people.

 

[Andy_Cole]

Are you still sulking about your middle class woes of 20% tax sending your kids to a school the majority of the population cannot even afford?

Going back to this. Why is it that people who live in the most affluent areas get the best free schooling? Why should it be the upper class who live in the affluent catchment areas have the better choice of schools? This is very Tory if you asked me...

Are you a closet Tory?

 

[Andy_Cole]

Fine, but not caring if Sunak stays in means you're apathetic towards 4 more years of the current rule which has wrecked the country for near 14 years.

Are you confident about Labour though? They are the most right wing they ever have been.

 

[Solius]

Are you confident about Labour though? They are the most right wing they ever have been.

Not really but imo there has to be change. The Tories are dead in the water.

 

[Pexbo]

Going back to this. Why is it that people who live in the most affluent areas get the best free schooling? Why should it be the upper class who live in the affluent catchment areas have the better choice of schools? This is very Tory if you asked me...

Are you a closet Tory?

Ohh great response you’ve got me there!

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Presumably there will be mandatory genital inspections? And then bouncers on the doors who will determine who 'passes' and who does not? Might as well keep out manly looking women too, just in case.

A 10 second google reveals he wasn't speaking about toilets. The question was about "" biological women’s spaces" which could be anything from a rape crisis shelter to sheltered accommodation for victims of domestic abuse. Scenarios were the presence of someone who presents as biologically male could be traumatic for the clients, irrespective of the gender that they identify as. It's a complex issue which can't be discussed with the kind of yes/no questions that generate headlines like these.

A far better answer to a question specifically about toilets was provided by Jonathan Ashworth:

On Monday, Jonathan Ashworth, the shadow paymaster general, was asked by LBC’s Nick Ferrari whether he would want a trans woman with a penis to use a male or female lavatory. The Labour frontbencher replied: “I’m not a toilet monitor.” When pressed to clarify his stance, he said: “We don’t have police officers outside or guards outside every set of [lavatories]… Matters like that are for individual establishments.”

 

[rcoobc]

Are you confident about Labour though? They are the most right wing they ever have been.

They are still left to where the Tories have been for the past 14 years.

I know that's not as left as many want, but they're not Tories.

 

[Kaos]

I'm at a point I couldn't care less if it"s Rishi or Keir.

You're getting flamed for this but I don't disagree. Both terrible choices, yes the Tories have been dreadful but I find it hard to remain remotely optimistic about a future here with a Starmer led government. On top of that you have the gammons and bigots driving up the reform vote too, what a depressing election. The Tories are gone anyway so I'm immune to the whole scaremongering with the 'another 4 years of Sunak' shtick. I just feel like its a hopeless outlook and honestly I'm debating whether to even bother turning up at the polls.

 

[Sweet Square]

More than a dozen private sector lobbyists and consultants have been embedded in the shadow cabinet teams, after Labour approached businesses for help with shaping its policies.

The party is understood to have sent out an appeal to private companies to send staff to assist it with policy work, particularly in complex areas such as artificial intelligence (AI).

One of the firms, Faculty AI, told staff in an internal memo, leaked to the Guardian, that Labour had called on it for expertise, and that it had amended its ethical policies to allow for a staff member to work with the party for one to two days a week.

Other firms to send staff include FGS Global, whose clients include the Czech billionaire bidding for Royal Mail, Daniel Křetínský. The PR and lobbying firm has a member of staff seconded to the office of Rachel Reeves, the shadow chancellor. Reeves’ deputy, Darren Jones, has also taken on an employee from Baringa, a management consultancy that specialises in central government efficiency savings, and Arup, an engineering firm. Both the people seconded from the private sector have been given parliamentary passes, allowing them access to the Westminster estate.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ts-embedded-into-labours-shadow-cabinet-teams

.

 

[rimaldo]

You're getting flamed for this but I don't disagree. Both terrible choices, yes the Tories have been dreadful but I find it hard to remain remotely optimistic about a future here with a Starmer led government. On top of that you have the gammons and bigots driving up the reform vote too, what a depressing election. The Tories are gone anyway so I'm immune to the whole scaremongering with the 'another 4 years of Sunak' shtick. I just feel like its a hopeless outlook and honestly I'm debating whether to even bother turning up at the polls.

vote for someone else. they thrive on apathy. the biggest message that could be sent is that it’s no longer a binary choice between labour and conservative.

 

[Nogbadthebad]

.

Chukka Ummana is also representing Daniel Křetínský through the purchase of royal mail in his position at JP Morgan.

None of these people were ever new labour, let alone old labour.

 

[Frosty]

A 10 second google reveals he wasn't speaking about toilets. The question was about "" biological women’s spaces" which could be anything from a rape crisis shelter to sheltered accommodation for victims of domestic abuse. Scenarios were the presence of someone who presents as biologically male could be traumatic for the clients, irrespective of the gender that they identify as. It's a complex issue which can't be discussed with the kind of yes/no questions that generate headlines like these.

A far better answer to a question specifically about toilets was provided by Jonathan Ashworth:

I would love to put money aside for safer, cleaner, more accessible toilets. In fact, I think they should be mandated on private premises wherever possible, made accessible for all, especially given how few facilities are disabled friendly, including putting baby changing facilities into all toilets too.

In reference to your point, the Equality Act already covers many of the situations you mention, providing exceptions where needed, despite being nearly 25 years old. But that does not excuse the fact that many politicians, including Labour politicians, have said a great many things which have impacted on the trans community. It should also be said that this was relatively uncontroversial as recently as 2017, so much so that Theresa May's manifesto was far to the left of both main parties now. I have people in my life whose lives are directly impacted by this rhetoric, and Labour Shadow Ministers and the LOTO have blundered into the 'toilet debate' clumsily before.

 

[Sweet Square]

A 10 second google reveals he wasn't speaking about toilets. The question was about "" biological women’s spaces" which could be anything from a rape crisis shelter to sheltered accommodation for victims of domestic abuse.

I think toilets count as women spaces.

A far better answer to a question specifically about toilets was provided by Jonathan Ashworth:

Answer doesn’t work when talking about NHS hospitals. Labour wanted a separate wards for trans people so…..

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I would love to put money aside for safer, cleaner, more accessible toilets. In fact, I think they should be mandated on private premises wherever possible, made accessible for all, especially given how few facilities are disabled friendly, including putting baby changing facilities into all toilets too.

In reference to your point, the Equality Act already covers many of the situations you mention, providing exceptions where needed, despite being nearly 25 years old. But that does not excuse the fact that many politicians, including Labour politicians, have said a great many things which have impacted on the trans community. It should also be said that this was relatively uncontroversial as recently as 2017, so much so that Theresa May's manifesto was far to the left of both main parties now. I have people in my life whose lives are directly impacted by this rhetoric, and Labour Shadow Ministers and the LOTO have blundered into the 'toilet debate' clumsily before.

The culture war - with trans rights front and centre - has ramped up massively since 2017, so it is a topic which gets much more coverage now than it did then. And I agree that this is unfortunate. It feels like a backwards step. This specific incident is about a politician responding to a direct question, so the agenda has been set by the interviewer, not the interviewee.

 

[Ultimate Grib]

Are these the issues facing the majority of people today, which toilet to fecking use? What a waste of journalism.

People want to know what the government is going to do for the millions that struggle to put food on the table not whether to piss standing up or sitting down.

There's a time and place for that debate and now is not the time or the place when there's 3 million people using food banks.

 

[Revan]

Can someone explain to me in what aspect Starmer is as bad as the Tories?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think toilets count as women spaces.


Answer doesn’t work when talking about NHS hospitals. Labour wanted a separate wards for trans people so…..

The topic being discussed was “biological women’s spaces”.

 

[Sweet Square]

Tbh it’s only really a “complicated issue” for people who think Trans people are inherently a risk to women.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Are these the issues facing the majority of people today, which toilet to fecking use? What a waste of journalism.

People want to know what the government is going to do for the millions that struggle to put food on the table not whether to piss standing up or sitting down.

There's a time and place for that debate and now is not the time or the place when there's 3 million people using food banks.

Hence the Tories (and the Tory press, note that this latest storm in a teacup is based on an article in The Telegraph) are desperate to keep this front and centre.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Tbh it’s only really a “complicated issue” for people who think Trans people are inherently a risk to women.

Nonsense.

Side note, what are your thoughts on people who think men are inherently a risk to women?

 

[RORY65]

Hence the Tories (and the Tory press, note that this latest storm in a teacup is based on an article in The Telegraph) are desperate to keep this front and centre.

Isn't Starmer as well though? His comments on this probably don't play too badly with the Tory press (you've noted some nuance to how they've been reported but they're still comments which won't hurt his standing with them) and it means he doesn't have to talk about how he's going to fix the bigger issues to which his solutions seem pretty wooly and unlikely to make significant changes.

 

[Sweet Square]

The topic being discussed was “biological women’s spaces”.

Labour seem to view NHS hospitals as “biological women’s spaces” as they want to ban trans women from women's hospital wards. Jonathan Ashworth may say he isn’t a toilet monitor but well hospitals have toilets.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Isn't Starmer as well though? His comments on this probably don't play too badly with the Tory press (you've noted some nuance to how they've been reported but they're still comments which won't hurt his standing with them) and it means he doesn't have to talk about how he's going to fix the bigger issues to which his solutions seem pretty wooly and unlikely to make significant changes.

I’d say Starmer and the Labour party would be more than happy to keep every interview focussed on the horrible record of the Tory government since they’ve been in charge. Any other topic is a distraction.