General Election 2024

Who got your vote?

  • Labour

    Votes: 147 54.2%

  • Conservative

    Votes: 5 1.8%

  • Lib Dem

    Votes: 25 9.2%

  • Green

    Votes: 48 17.7%

  • Reform

    Votes: 11 4.1%

  • SNP

    Votes: 5 1.8%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Independent

    Votes: 8 3.0%

  • UK resident but not voting

    Votes: 18 6.6%

  • Spoiled my ballot

    Votes: 3 1.1%
  • Total voters
    271
  • Poll closed .
Status
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Nogbadthebad said:
The largest party in opposition make up the official shadow cabinet and get the 6 questions to put to the PM< plus a few other benefits around how many motions they can table and that sort of thing.

If the tories have less seats than, say, reform, it would be reform sitting opposite government and leading PMQs and so on.
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Thanks for the answer! So, in essence, the parties that are neither in government nor the main opposition should be made almost invisible in the HoC unless they team up with either of them. Unless they have the support of most of the sponsors and the media, like in this case.

Can Lib Dem realistically achieve that? Would that be a good scenario for Labour or it's actually irrelevant?
 
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Maticmaker said:
It simply not politically realistic... at this time anyway.

The GE is about to happen, Reform are on the rise and might indeed become the official opposition. A balanced and sensible and grown up discussion is needed on immigration as a whole, not just asylum seekers.

However it's simply not going to happen until the small boats issue is solved and seen to be solved. For a majority of people in this country it's about the fact that criminals can just force people onto the mainland of the UK, at a price. It's not even smuggling (which is in essence a secret enterprise and been going on for ages) because its now done openly and dangerously and which, whether we like it or not, the majority of people in this country want this illegal route closed properly and for many forcibly, if necessary.

The opening of legal routes is the place to start, but these will be limited to people arriving from specific areas/countries and not a free-for all, the great British tradition of 'queuing' will need to be put into action on a grand scale.

At this point the proper and grown up discussion can be held, because with an ageing population and an ever lower birth rate the UK does need immigrants, including their families, to set up home here and contribute to society. Not in 'ghetto-type' settings, where they can be used as slave-labour and open to being further exploited by criminals; not just in run down parts in City centers, or old dilapidated areas of provincial towns that are already suffering from almost economic shut down, but also in the leafy suburbs, the countryside, the coastal towns etc.

The fact that Sunak believed his Rwanda scheme, might deter people, or Starmer threatening to set the SAS on the criminal gangs, means both leaders know that they have to not only talk tough, but get results, otherwise the British public will look elsewhere for solutions.... and don't you know that's just what Farage is bidding to be asked to provide (among other things, like No TV licence, No tax < £20K income . etc.), and he's prepared to wait.
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But this is only about asylum seekers, the people on boats, tens of thousands of people at most per year. The situation is so easily remedied to a great degree and the channel route is made redundant.

Sunak and Starmer both don't want this solved and both have totally ridiculous and stupid ideas. Nor do Reform want it solved. These people are weaponised.

Then it's how they decide to work out the legal immigrant situation which is an entirely different discussion. And nobody mentions the real illegal immigrants of which the majority of asylum seekers are not.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
But this is only about asylum seekers, the people on boats, tens of thousands of people at most per year. The situation is so easily remedied to a great degree and the channel route is made redundant.

Sunak and Starmer both don't want this solved and both have totally ridiculous and stupid ideas. Nor do Reform want it solved. These people are weaponised.

Then it's how they decide to work out the legal immigrant situation which is an entirely different discussion. And nobody mentions the real illegal immigrants of which the majority of asylum seekers are not.
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You think so?

And will continue to be in the van, whilst the the whole issue of immigration remains needing to be addressed.

That 'whole' immigration issue will not get to be addressed until the 'boats issue' is solved.
Therefore it is not an entirely different discussion as far as the majority in the UK is concerned.
 
Maticmaker said:
You think so?

And will continue to be in the van, whilst the the whole issue of immigration remains needing to be addressed.

That 'whole' immigration issue will not get to be addressed until the 'boats issue' is solved.
Therefore it is not an entirely different discussion as far as the majority in the UK is concerned.
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This discussion, yes.

Because the public have been told to think this by the politicians and the media.

We know a good solution to the boats issue. Safe routes and processing. What are they waiting for?
 
The Lib Dems as opposition would be fascinating because you would expect them to be attacking Labour from the Left, rather than the Right. Wont happen, but would create a really interesting dynamic and reverse of the shifting of the overton window over the last 10 years.
 
Walrus said:
The Lib Dems as opposition would be fascinating because you would expect them to be attacking Labour from the Left, rather than the Right. Wont happen, but would create a really interesting dynamic and reverse of the shifting of the overton window over the last 10 years.
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This is true but unfortunately it could be Reform and not the Libs. I reckon one more major disaster for Sunak in the next two days could swing it for them. Not likely I know, but possible.
 
Krakenzero said:
Thanks for the answer! So, in essence, the parties that are neither in government nor the main opposition should be made almost invisible in the HoC unless they team up with either of them. Unless they have the support of most of the sponsors and the media, like in this case.

Can Lib Dem realistically achieve that? Would that be a good scenario for Labour or it's actually irrelevant?
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The current polling says lib dems can be the biggest opposition party yes.

In terms of what it means, no one alive has seen anything but Labour and Conservatives as government and opposition. So just seeing the lib dem leader or whoever on the oppsoition front bench would be a big sign things have changed a lot.

But its also a double edged sword. You get all the perks for being the official opposition, but you also get everyone seeing what you are doing. If you are bad at it, poor prime ministers questions and so on, then everyone notices.

This is kind of why reform being the opposition would have advantages. Farage is not a man for hard work, or even bothering to turn up. He'd also be forced to have solutions, not just shout at everyone. It would destroy his party and his career if he had to do that for 5 years.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
Or, they could just reopen legal routes for asylum seekers that the tories closed, take the French offer to host immigration facilities in Calais and deal with cases promptly, removing the market for people smugglers and stopping the kind of delays that mean we house people in hotels for months at the same time.

The immigration 'crisis' is entirely self created for political purposes. Both main parties know this, and both use it to fear monger because they are shite on a stick cnuts.
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Nail on the head.
 
Sweet Square said:
Cheers. Its going to be so bad

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GRacPqibYAAnuUi
 
711 said:
This is true but unfortunately it could be Reform and not the Libs. I reckon one more major disaster for Sunak in the next two days could swing it for them. Not likely I know, but possible.
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Reform as opposition is an impossibility. If you think there’s a chance, make a bet and make bank.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
But there are millions, stored in warehouses, bought along the way, the supply is endless.
What is stopping the UK setting up safe routes, far far cheaper and far far easier.
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Ok.If there are really millions stored in warehouses, then I bow to your knowledge.
 
Buster15 said:
Ok.If there are really millions stored in warehouses, then I bow to your knowledge.
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There are some in warehouses, some in dealers, some on lakes, some in shops, some in people's gardens and garages ,some stolen, some on the way, some can be delivered from China, they could come from anywhere in the world.

If they stopped all supplies of boats they'd fly the immigrants in or go back to lorries, or put them in containers or on trains or on whatever way they could find to do so.

Why not do the simple thing: because neither Sunak nor Starmer want to upset the people obsessed with asylum seekers.
 
Find someone who's as interested in you as sweet square is keir starmer.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
There are some in warehouses, some in dealers, some on lakes, some in shops, some in people's gardens and garages ,some stolen, some on the way, some can be delivered from China, they could come from anywhere in the world.

If they stopped all supplies of boats they'd fly the immigrants in or go back to lorries, or put them in containers or on trains or on whatever way they could find to do so.

Why not do the simple thing: because neither Sunak nor Starmer want to upset the people obsessed with asylum seekers.
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Jesus Christ lad. For a fella that screams ‘I’m smarter than Starmer’ through a bullhorn; ‘If they couldn’t use outboard motors they’d resort to lorries or containers or trains or planes’ is MENTAL.

Small boats are the last option, short of swimming.

Now, I think @Buster15 is great. His outboard motor tracking suggestion is half baked and a bit silly (sorry pal). But your suggestion that they’re using boats because they’re easier than planes or trucks is just thick.

You can’t have it all ways. Acting like Starmers moral and intellectual superior on Brexit legislation (which you are certainly not) while you spout bollocks about channel crossings is insane.

Beyond that… All of my knowledge about outboard motors is gleaned from 4 years in Nz and 2 years in the south of France. They cost a lot. They’re not easily repairable to the level of a channel crossing vessel. They are trackable to source of manufacture (as all aviation and sea-going propulsion is) and simple Legislation to add a 12 month prison sentence to anyone that didn’t display the serial number of their outboard… is very problematic but not stupid. Hell, it’s a £1 embossed sticker that we demand cars carry. You could police Northern France with that legislation. Track where outboards came from. Shut down supply lines.

I 100% don’t support that as a point of principle. It’s a LOT of work. But it’s still Not as mad as your suggestion that there are ‘Millions of them globally’ and that it’s a dead suggestion.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Jesus Christ lad. For a fella that screams ‘I’m smarter than Starmer’ through a bullhorn; ‘If they couldn’t use outboard motors they’d resort to lorries or containers or trains or planes’ is MENTAL.

Small boats are the last option, short of swimming.

Now, I think @Buster15 is great. His outboard motor tracking suggestion is half baked and a bit silly (sorry pal). But your suggestion that they’re using boats because they’re easier than planes or trucks is just thick.

You can’t have it all ways. Acting like Starmers moral and intellectual superior on Brexit legislation (which you are certainly not) while you spout bollocks about channel crossings is insane.

Beyond that… All of my knowledge about outboard motors is gleaned from 4 years in Nz and 2 years in the south of France. They cost a lot. They’re not easily repairable to the level of a channel crossing vessel. They are trackable to source of manufacture (as all aviation and sea-going propulsion is) and simple Legislation to add a 12 month prison sentence to anyone that didn’t display the serial number of their outboard… is very problematic but not stupid. Hell, it’s a £1 embossed sticker that we demand cars carry. You could police Northern France with that legislation. Track where outboards came from. Shut down supply lines.

I 100% don’t support that as a point of principle. It’s a LOT of work. But it’s still Not as mad as your suggestion that there are ‘Millions of them globally’ and that it’s a dead suggestion.
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When you've finished insulting people. I know you think Starmer is the bees' knees.

You seriously think that stopping people buying boats or outboard motors is remotely feasible. Ridiculous.

They will find any means possible; what's more the gangs don't care whether the people who cross the Channel survive .
If I want to buy a boat how is Starmer going to stop me. What?! Seriously. Or anyone else throughout the EU or the world. he has no authority outside the UK.

Criminals will find a way to do so, just like smuggling goods, drugs whatever.

What's your opinion of using a simpler solution and opening safe routes? No?
 
Paul the Wolf said:
When you've finished insulting people. I know you think Starmer is the bees' knees.

You seriously think that stopping people buying boats or outboard motors is remotely feasible. Ridiculous.

They will find any means possible; what's more the gangs don't care whether the people who cross the Channel survive .
If I want to buy a boat how is Starmer going to stop me. What?! Seriously. Or anyone else throughout the EU or the world. he has no authority outside the UK.

Criminals will find a way to do so, just like smuggling goods, drugs whatever.

What's your opinion of using a simpler solution and opening safe routes? No?
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When you've finished insulting people. I know you think Starmer is the bees' knees.

I really don’t. I’m voting Lib Dem or Green

You seriously think that stopping people buying boats or outboard motors is remotely feasible. Ridiculous.

I don’t. But it’s not as insane as you think. You really can cut supply of product to the criminal gangs

They will find any means possible; what's more the gangs don't care whether the people who cross the Channel survive .
If I want to buy a boat how is Starmer going to stop me. What?! Seriously. Or anyone else throughout the EU or the world. he has no authority outside the UK.

Ok. Agreed

Criminals will find a way to do so, just like smuggling goods, drugs whatever.

No. Boats are the last viable option. Trucks and containers are done. Scanned and checked.

What's your opinion of using a simpler solution and opening safe routes? No?

Open them up. Obviously.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
When you've finished insulting people. I know you think Starmer is the bees' knees.

I really don’t. I’m voting Lib Dem or Green

You seriously think that stopping people buying boats or outboard motors is remotely feasible. Ridiculous.

I don’t. But it’s not as insane as you think. You really can cut supply of product to the criminal gangs

They will find any means possible; what's more the gangs don't care whether the people who cross the Channel survive .
If I want to buy a boat how is Starmer going to stop me. What?! Seriously. Or anyone else throughout the EU or the world. he has no authority outside the UK.

Ok. Agreed

Criminals will find a way to do so, just like smuggling goods, drugs whatever.

No. Boats are the last viable option. Trucks and containers are done. Scanned and checked.

What's your opinion of using a simpler solution and opening safe routes? No?

Open them up. Obviously.
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So you agree with me on most things. Drugs and counterfeit goods and other smuggled things still manage to find their way into the UK.
There are over a million registered recreational boats just in France alone of all shapes and sizes never mind the rest of Europe.
A gang could place an order with a Chinese company for x number of boats which could be delivered to any port or even by rail anywhere. The cost is irrelevant, they're making huge sums from the people trying to make the journey.

But the other point I'm making is that the authorities in countries all over Europe, Interpol etc are already arresting gangs , stopping attempted efforts to get to the Channel coast, intercepting suspicious boats etc. They're not waiting for Starmer to come charging along whose border security command or whatever which has no authority outside British soil.

Acting like Starmers moral and intellectual superior on Brexit legislation (which you are certainly not) - didn't notice this- there are plenty of people on the Caf who have more knowledge than Starmer and about international trade. Starmer is so wet behind the ears and so obviously clueless about Brexit. That is without any doubt whatsoever. He has no idea what he's doing.
 
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UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Jesus Christ lad. For a fella that screams ‘I’m smarter than Starmer’ through a bullhorn; ‘If they couldn’t use outboard motors they’d resort to lorries or containers or trains or planes’ is MENTAL.

Small boats are the last option, short of swimming.

Now, I think @Buster15 is great. His outboard motor tracking suggestion is half baked and a bit silly (sorry pal). But your suggestion that they’re using boats because they’re easier than planes or trucks is just thick.

You can’t have it all ways. Acting like Starmers moral and intellectual superior on Brexit legislation (which you are certainly not) while you spout bollocks about channel crossings is insane.

Beyond that… All of my knowledge about outboard motors is gleaned from 4 years in Nz and 2 years in the south of France. They cost a lot. They’re not easily repairable to the level of a channel crossing vessel. They are trackable to source of manufacture (as all aviation and sea-going propulsion is) and simple Legislation to add a 12 month prison sentence to anyone that didn’t display the serial number of their outboard… is very problematic but not stupid. Hell, it’s a £1 embossed sticker that we demand cars carry. You could police Northern France with that legislation. Track where outboards came from. Shut down supply lines.

I 100% don’t support that as a point of principle. It’s a LOT of work. But it’s still Not as mad as your suggestion that there are ‘Millions of them globally’ and that it’s a dead suggestion.
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The point I was trying to make was that there has been over 6250 small boats arriving in the UK in the last year. Multiply that year on year and factor all the other countries.
That is a huge amount of a fairly expensive product which once used can not be used again by the gangs.

But anyway. It was just an idea and in retrospect maybe not a particularly good one. But not impossible I believe.

As I have long acknowledged safe routes is the best option. Of course.
 
Maticmaker said:
You think so?

And will continue to be in the van, whilst the the whole issue of immigration remains needing to be addressed.

That 'whole' immigration issue will not get to be addressed until the 'boats issue' is solved.
Therefore it is not an entirely different discussion as far as the majority in the UK is concerned.
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Asylum seekers come in at about 45,000 per year.
Net 'legal' migration stands at about 650,000 per year.

Yes they're two entirely separate issues - not only from an 'ideological' perspective but also from a practical, by-the-numbers perspective.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
The largest party in opposition make up the official shadow cabinet and get the 6 questions to put to the PM< plus a few other benefits around how many motions they can table and that sort of thing.

If the tories have less seats than, say, reform, it would be reform sitting opposite government and leading PMQs and so on.
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As well as the PMQ's I think the "Official Opposition" also get a number of seats on the various committees that work in parliament. Some of these are very mundane but others have a lot of political clout. The "other" parties get some representation so if the tories get hammered they might only get one seat at these.

This will become interesting if Labour go down the route of further "investigations" into what the tories got upto in their time in power. Such "select committees" could have a lot of power and it would be interesting to see the dynamic of how that would play out.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
Asylum seekers come in at about 45,000 per year.
Net 'legal' migration stands at about 650,000 per year.

Yes they're two entirely separate issues - not only from an 'ideological' perspective but also from a practical, by-the-numbers perspective.
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Those numbers demonstrate exactly why the Rwanda plan is such a nonsensical idea.
Give them in the order of £500m, a lot of it up front, and for what...a maximum of 500 individuals a year we are told.

It is anything but the deterrent Sunak claims. Anyone will be able to quickly find out how many have been sent there (assuming it ever happened). And then the gangs will be able to continue their business unaffected.
 
711 said:
The Romans, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Vikings and Normans all seem to manage it one way or another.
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I believe the brightest and best of the Jutes should stay in Germanic and make Germanic prosperous
 
buchansleftleg said:
As well as the PMQ's I think the "Official Opposition" also get a number of seats on the various committees that work in parliament. Some of these are very mundane but others have a lot of political clout. The "other" parties get some representation so if the tories get hammered they might only get one seat at these.

This will become interesting if Labour go down the route of further "investigations" into what the tories got upto in their time in power. Such "select committees" could have a lot of power and it would be interesting to see the dynamic of how that would play out.
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Yep, they get to head select committees on finance and other important stuff too. You're right, a lib dem led comittee quizzing labour ministers about public spending during covid would be a sight to see. The consequences could finish the tories off completely, leaving farage to mop up their votes.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
Asylum seekers come in at about 45,000 per year.
Net 'legal' migration stands at about 650,000 per year.

Yes they're two entirely separate issues - not only from an 'ideological' perspective but also from a practical, by-the-numbers perspective.
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Not from the perspective of large numbers of people resident in the UK.

The numbers arriving in small boats is relatively small but not all are true asylum seekers, some are people with money, or who put themselves in hoc (to the criminals) who are trying to jump the queue, and this is a factor that is intrinsically linked in the minds of many people in the UK to the wider issues on immigration and both need to be discussed in a sane and grown up way.

Immigration is important to this country, but no government is going to get to the starting gate on a solution, going forward, until the whole thing is examined in a collective manner and solutions with reasons made known.

Of course safe routes would make sense, but these need to be planned, ordered, staffed and funded by the UK government and they should not be subject to criminally driven, forceful queue-jumping and dangerous acts.

The next UK government indeed any government, of whatever political affiliation, has to first show it can get a grip on the illegal transportation of human beings in small boats.

Nothing will happen until this first step is taken and important issues of how the country is run in the future will hang on such outcomes.
 
While Israel has the right to murder, maim, torture, starve and vaporize Gazans. Cool, Keir, very cool.
 
Maticmaker said:
Not from the perspective of large numbers of people resident in the UK.

The numbers arriving in small boats is relatively small but not all are true asylum seekers, some are people with money, or who put themselves in hoc (to the criminals) who are trying to jump the queue, and this is a factor that is intrinsically linked in the minds of many people in the UK to the wider issues on immigration and both need to be discussed in a sane and grown up way.

Immigration is important to this country, but no government is going to get to the starting gate on a solution, going forward, until the whole thing is examined in a collective manner and solutions with reasons made known.

Of course safe routes would make sense, but these need to be planned, ordered, staffed and funded by the UK government and they should not be subject to criminally driven, forceful queue-jumping and dangerous acts.

The next UK government indeed any government, of whatever political affiliation, has to first show it can get a grip on the illegal transportation of human beings in small boats.

Nothing will happen until this first step is taken and important issues of how the country is run in the future will hang on such outcomes.
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Re:

First bold point -> Only because bad actors and disingenuous contributors conflate the two.

Second bold point -> you're not a commentator for the Daily Mail are you? This is the entire point of having a Home Office, to evaluate the claims

Third bold point -> that's the whole point of 'safe & legal routes' - so people don't have to resort to working with criminals

Fourth bold point -> yes, but that can only happen as a pincer movement between chasing down the people traffickers and opening 'safe & legal' routes as if you go after the criminals but give the people no other alternative, they'll find others to help them
 
Pexbo said:
Women hate the idea of using the urinal and a trans woman looking at their vagina out of the corner of their eye.
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they don’t want to get a stranger’s splashback on their skirt.
 
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