General Election 2024

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I think there's probably loads of folk in cities who think England's overpopulated. More importantly, though, the effect of population growth on small and medium sized towns is probably more easily and keenly felt than it is in places that have long been part of an urban sprawl. It's fairly intuitive that people who don't live in urban environments are more likely to be averse to urbanisation that those that do - especially when that urbanisation hasn't brought increased prosperity along with it.

Try to differentiate between the rantings of some dumb old Kettering racist from the reality that we live in a country who's services and infrastructure are increasingly incapable of fulfilling the demands of its increasing population.

These comments are always from the same people.

You could add 1000 white people to their town of 50,000 people and they won’t notice. Add one brown doctor next door to them and they lose their mind. These people use evidence of their nurses being Indian as they tend to their post heart attack care, drink it all up, and moan about ‘Are country’ the moment they get on their feet and go back home.

Everyone can abide by macro and micro level discussions on land planning, use of resources, and the like.

That’s not what these vox-pop twats are shitting their pants about. They’re just racist. Knowingly or not. I’ll give them zero consideration.

 

[rimaldo]

gammon’s really sweating as to where their vote goes now.

 

[Sweet Square]

 

[Nogbadthebad]

For those that don;t know, labour to win is ran by luke akehurst and the woman they parachuted in to replace Faiza Shaheen.

 

[berbatrick]

2017. Labour got 40% of the vote and most people seemed pretty enthused about it.

Worth noting, starmer is projected to get 43%, which would be the same vote share with poll variance being +/-3%, and get more than double the seats. Lib Dems are looking like they will get almost identical vote share from 2019, 8%, yet go from 8 seats to 30+.

'Democracy'.

There was explicit polling about it too - 2017 was one of the few elections where the for Labour policies were more than the votes against Tory policies.

Tory equivalent - Brexit and anti-Labour

Spoiler

2020 in the US was the opposite, with the anti-Trump vote carrying Biden. So far a negative polarisation strategy is on course for 2/2 (2020 US and 2024 UK). It doesn't seem feasible in any long-term sense though.

 

[11101]

I think there's probably loads of folk in cities who think England's overpopulated. More importantly, though, the effect of population growth on small and medium sized towns is probably more easily and keenly felt than it is in places that have long been part of an urban sprawl. It's fairly intuitive that people who don't live in urban environments are more likely to be averse to urbanisation that those that do - especially when that urbanisation hasn't brought increased prosperity along with it.

Try to differentiate between the rantings of some dumb old Kettering racist from the reality that we live in a country who's services and infrastructure are increasingly incapable of fulfilling the demands of its increasing population.

It's not rocket science really, adding 10 million people to the country over the last couple of decades was always going to cause problems. It doesn't matter where they come from (a little over half of the increase is from migration).

Consider how many new hospitals, railways, airports, roads and other infrastructure we've built in that time. It wont take long to count.

We need migration but we also need to either a) build a few hundred billions worth of infrastructure or b) keep it within what the country can handle, and we have not been doing that because a) we're skint and b) the government projections have been miles off the actual numbers for the last 30 years.

It's another reductive and lazy argument to blame it solely on racism.

 

[Pexbo]

It's not rocket science really, adding 10 million people to the country over the last couple of decades was always going to cause problems. It doesn't matter where they come from (a little over half of the increase is from migration).

Consider how many new hospitals, railways, airports, roads and other infrastructure we've built in that time. It wont take long to count.

We need migration but we also need to either a) build a few hundred billions worth of infrastructure or b) keep it within what the country can handle, and we have not been doing that because a) we're skint and b) the government projections have been miles off the actual numbers for the last 30 years.

It's another reductive and lazy argument to blame it solely on racism.

With birth rates on the decline massively, immigration is currently the only way of ensuring boomers have enough workers to service them into retirement.

 

[TheGame]

@Dobba @Sweet Square

 

[africanspur]

Now that view is all well and good (even with the arbitrary caveats to boost the UK’s position), but that is what continual growth looks like!

If you want an economy to continually grow in this financial system then you’ve got two options; make the workers you have do more, or get more workers.

It really isn't an arbitrary caveat. The UK is made of 4 constituent countries, 3 of which have significant independence movements and 2 of them so serious that independence within the next 20 years for instance is not unthinkable.

I'm not taking some small over crowded town to try to make the point, I'm taking the overall country of England, where he lives. In that sense, the population density of the Shetland islands irrelevant to this man.

I'm making absolutely no comment at all on his views on immigration (which as an immigrant myself and as someone who lives in London and feels more comfortable generally in diverse spaces vs uniformly white spaces I abhor). I am however making a comment on this kind of gotcha video where we all chuckle to ourselves at how silly this man is as they walk around an empty high street and then make up statistics about the population density.

 

[africanspur]

It’s still silly. It’s people in towns and villages stating that ‘we’re full’. They’re as densely populated as the Uk.

People in the densely populated parts (the cities) don’t state it as a problem.

The whole statement is dishonest.

This is such an odd comment. This is exactly the kind of thing I mean. You can think this man is an idiot with his views on immigration (I certainly do) without making up things about how people in cities don't feel it's crowded or pretending like either England or the UK still if it bothers people that much aren't among the most crowded countries in the world.

I live in London and people definitely do say it's overcrowded. Native Brits and immigrants alike.

That doesn't mean we can't have better public services (we can), immigration isn't hugely beneficial for the country (I think it is) or that 'we're full'.

 

[Pexbo]

@Dobba @Sweet Square

I genuinely think I would vote for whatever disaster of a human being Tory he’s up against given a binary option.

 

[nimic]

@Dobba @Sweet Square

Yeah no need for a second take or anything when he hesitates for several lines in a row. Just go with the first take.

 

[africanspur]

@Dobba @Sweet Square

Makes my skin crawl.

 

[rimaldo]

Yeah no need for a second take or anything when he hesitates for several lines in a row. Just go with the first take.

maybe that was the best take.

“he’s falling over his words but at least he didn’t drop an n-bomb on this one.”

 

[Herman Toothrot]

Moving from the right of Cameron to the centre of May.

 

[Dobba]

@Dobba @Sweet Square

As bad as that is, his politics are worse.

Someone said the bit where he's standing gormlessly next to the mining memorial looks like the opening titles of Little Britain. Well it's Akehurst so it'd be more Likud Britain.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

This is such an odd comment. This is exactly the kind of thing I mean. You can think this man is an idiot with his views on immigration (I certainly do) without making up things about how people in cities don't feel it's crowded or pretending like either England or the UK still if it bothers people that much aren't among the most crowded countries in the world.

I live in London and people definitely do say it's overcrowded. Native Brits and immigrants alike.

That doesn't mean we can't have better public services (we can), immigration isn't hugely beneficial for the country (I think it is) or that 'we're full'.

Yeah but that’s it’s. England is nowhere near one of the most crowded places in the world. Its cities are densely populated. Its small towns are not.

It was around Brexit time that someone ran some data that removed London and displayed population density numbers. They were far below France, Germany, Italy and Spain (with their Capital removed). And all of those places are far bigger.

Do you really hear from Londoners that London is overcrowded? I really don’t. Everyone hates tourists. But lived locations within it are not overcrowded in my experience.

We don’t really have an issue with space or overcrowding. We have a massive problem with land use and planning. We are far too London-centric as a single country. If we took all of the Royal Land (ignoring the widely aristocracy) and developed it to the density of some Tory paradise like Kensington, we’re good.

I do appreciate that my ideals of resolution are based on complete fantasy implementation. But they’re not beyond us.

HS2 should have gone ahead. Just TAKE the land.

London through to Birmingham, then the North. Build high density housing in Cities along the route. Suspend Stamp Duty for new build purchases (first/second time buyers only, no buy to let purchases) in those places. Give a few large green/renewable companies some whopping decades long tax breaks with tiered sunset clauses to allow them to set up shop there if they commit to incentives supporting ethical employment contracts.

Those are easily implementable. Most are almost apex capitalist too.

 

[Sweet Square]

@Dobba @Sweet Square

omg!

 

[Sweet Square]

Insane

 

[africanspur]

Yeah but that’s it’s. England is nowhere near one of the most crowded places in the world. Its cities are densely populated. Its small towns are not.

It was around Brexit time that someone ran some data that removed London and displayed population density numbers. They were far below France, Germany, Italy and Spain (with their Capital removed). And all of those places are far bigger.

Do you really hear from Londoners that London is overcrowded? I really don’t. Everyone hates tourists. But lived locations within it are not overcrowded in my experience.

We don’t really have an issue with space or overcrowding. We have a massive problem with land use and planning. We are far too London-centric as a single country. If we took all of the Royal Land (ignoring the widely aristocracy) and developed it to the density of some Tory paradise like Kensington, we’re good.

I do appreciate that my ideals of resolution are based on complete fantasy implementation. But they’re not beyond us.

HS2 should have gone ahead. Just TAKE the land.

London through to Birmingham, then the North. Build high density housing in Cities along the route. Suspend Stamp Duty for new build purchases (first/second time buyers only, no buy to let purchases) in those places. Give a few large green/renewable companies some whopping decades long tax breaks with tiered sunset clauses to allow them to set up shop there if they commit to incentives supporting ethical employment contracts.

Those are easily implementable. Most are almost apex capitalist too.

I don't really understand how to process that first line. Considering 90% of the UK's population is urban, what does that even mean? Bangladesh is also one of the most densely populated countries in the world, yet I've visited a friend's village in the countryside and seen nobody for miles. So do I say Bangladesh is not even one of the most densely populated countries, as long as you exclude Dhaka?

I've just had a fleeting look online and the NW of England has a higher population density than every single region in France, other than Ile-de France and Mayotte. Same for the SE of England, West Midlands and Yorkshire. If you want to exclude France's overseas territories, you have a full on 8 regions of England (not including London) which have a higher density than every French region on mainland France other than Ile-de-France.

If we're doing Spain, again excluding Madrid and Spain's 2 colonies in North Africa, we have 7 English regions before we get to the first equivalent for Spain (Basque country). Again, excluding London.

Yeah I do. A lot. May be different of course if you live in Zone 5 or 6 or something but certainly more centrally, people do talk about it being crowded. That doesn't mean they hate it or want no more immigrants or other such nonsense though.

Agree generally about the land use in this country and am always up with crushing the royalty/ aristocracy and their hold on land.

 

[TheGame]

Sunak’s D Day story was highlighted for several days by the media and rightly so. Has anyone asked Farage about this yet as it wasn’t denied by a Reform spokesman. Or are the media letting him get away with it again?

 

[Matt Varnish]

This is an absolute joke seeing how Gordon Brown bankrupted the country with his Quantative easing and allowing the banks to invest in the American sub prime market, which led to the banks collapsing and the banks having to be bailed out out with taxpayer money.
Which BTW was how Rishi made his millions!

 

[11101]

With birth rates on the decline massively, immigration is currently the only way of ensuring boomers have enough workers to service them into retirement.

There is another way that is being taken by some countries. Keep the workforce productive right up to retirement. The UK has a belief that beyond 50 you might as well be put out to pasture.

 

[RedSky]

Insane

Party of the people.

 

[Sweet Square]

Wtf is this shite.

 

[Sweet Square]

This is an absolute joke seeing how Gordon Brown bankrupted the country with his Quantative easing and allowing the banks to invest in the American sub prime market, which led to the banks collapsing and the banks having to be bailed out out with taxpayer money.
Which BTW was how Rishi made his millions!

Party of the people.

It’s going to be the most reactionary and regressive parts of New Labour without any of the social funding.

 

[Matt Varnish]

Wtf is this shite.

Right so now I understand how this will work,
Parents will drop off their kids at primary schools, where there will be no-one to look after them.
That'll work

 

[TwoSheds]

Right so now I understand how this will work,
Parents will drop off their kids at primary schools, where there will be no-one to look after them.
That'll work

They've thought through the plan my guy, it will be fine.

 

[pocco]

Right so now I understand how this will work,
Parents will drop off their kids at primary schools, where there will be no-one to look after them.
That'll work

Not sure what he said about this, but won't they put measures in place to encourage more into the teaching profession? It'll take years to deliver 3000 schools, surely enough time to try to sort the staffing situation? It'll take 2 or 3 years minimum before even the first school is delivered in all likelihood.

 

[Matt Varnish]

They've thought through the plan my guy, it will be fine.

Not sure what he said about this, but won't they put measures in place to encourage more into the teaching profession? It'll take years to deliver 3000 schools, surely enough time to try to sort the staffing situation? It'll take 2 or 3 years minimum before even the first school is delivered in all likelihood.

So the "Not increasing staffing" is a lie.
This man is a bigger car crash than Tony Bliar

 

[Drainy]

Sunak’s D Day story was highlighted for several days by the media and rightly so. Has anyone asked Farage about this yet as it wasn’t denied by a Reform spokesman. Or are the media letting him get away with it again?

He was asked about it. He deflected away by saying that '20 green candidates had been dropped for antisemitism', and then defended the organisation by saying all parties had struggled with vetting due to short notice of the election

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

I don't really understand how to process that first line. Considering 90% of the UK's population is urban, what does that even mean? Bangladesh is also one of the most densely populated countries in the world, yet I've visited a friend's village in the countryside and seen nobody for miles. So do I say Bangladesh is not even one of the most densely populated countries, as long as you exclude Dhaka?

I've just had a fleeting look online and the NW of England has a higher population density than every single region in France, other than Ile-de France and Mayotte. Same for the SE of England, West Midlands and Yorkshire. If you want to exclude France's overseas territories, you have a full on 8 regions of England (not including London) which have a higher density than every French region on mainland France other than Ile-de-France.

If we're doing Spain, again excluding Madrid and Spain's 2 colonies in North Africa, we have 7 English regions before we get to the first equivalent for Spain (Basque country). Again, excluding London.

Yeah I do. A lot. May be different of course if you live in Zone 5 or 6 or something but certainly more centrally, people do talk about it being crowded. That doesn't mean they hate it or want no more immigrants or other such nonsense though.

Agree generally about the land use in this country and am always up with crushing the royalty/ aristocracy and their hold on land.

To the first 3 paragraphs. I’ll try to dig out the piece I mentioned. It reframed how I felt about it.

Basically, all of our Cities are really close together, when compared to countries of a larger land mass. That affects density by region. But as a percentage of our available land mass with very low density, we’re comparable with those countries.

Explaining that very badly. Will try and find the study/article.

Really don’t get the London crowding message though. I’m in Hackney and ride a bike everywhere so it probably touches me less than most.

 

[11101]

Not sure what he said about this, but won't they put measures in place to encourage more into the teaching profession? It'll take years to deliver 3000 schools, surely enough time to try to sort the staffing situation? It'll take 2 or 3 years minimum before even the first school is delivered in all likelihood.

There are already about 2000 teaching jobs that they can't fill so not really sure where they're going to get all these teachers from.

And if the private school money is going on the nurseries, where is all the new school funding coming from?

 

[pocco]

There are already about 2000 teaching jobs that they can't fill so not really sure where they're going to get all these teachers from.

And if the private school money is going on the nurseries, where is all the new school funding coming from?

No it was a genuine question really as I know nothing about their plans really. I don't know what the solution is but they need to incentivize the role or the training somehow.

Regarding the last question, that's a general grievance of mine with politicians in general. We have a certain budget no matter who runs the country. If one party is offering more in a certain area, then that money has to come from another pot. I wish these cnuts would just be open and honest about how they're going to achieve these things. I think the country is sick of being lied to and would just like a sensible approach and to know the facts. Why these lot can't recognise that I don't know. But it was one of the points made by a listener that got read out during the debate, and it's true. I honestly think if somebody just came along and said "this is what we want to do, this is how we'd achieve it and these are the sacrifices we'd make" then they'd be on to a winner.

It always surprises me how much they are allowed to lie to us. It's already had a huge impact on the UK with brexit and the influence the lies and propaganda had on people.

 

[Bert_]

No it was a genuine question really as I know nothing about their plans really. I don't know what the solution is but they need to incentivize the role or the training somehow.

Regarding the last question, that's a general grievance of mine with politicians in general. We have a certain budget no matter who runs the country. If one party is offering more in a certain area, then that money has to come from another pot. I wish these cnuts would just be open and honest about how they're going to achieve these things. I think the country is sick of being lied to and would just like a sensible approach and to know the facts. Why these lot can't recognise that I don't know. But it was one of the points made by a listener that got read out during the debate, and it's true. I honestly think if somebody just came along and said "this is what we want to do, this is how we'd achieve it and these are the sacrifices we'd make" then they'd be on to a winner.

It always surprises me how much they are allowed to lie to us. It's already had a huge impact on the UK with brexit and the influence the lies and propaganda had on people.

The general public aren't economists and the regression to applying household economics to a nation's economy is a deliberate tactic to discredit any increase in spending. Once the "how are you going to pay for it?" answer gets technical, people switch off and assume it's a lie.

 

[TheGame]

He was asked about it. He deflected away by saying that '20 green candidates had been dropped for antisemitism', and then defended the organisation by saying all parties had struggled with vetting due to short notice of the election

It should be front and centre on BBC news like the Sunak story was. He should be asked about it again and again until he provides a proper answer. It's remarkable how inept the media are in holding this clown to account.

 

[Heardy]

Tories pledging another stamp duty break reduction. Bloody infuriating that i seem to have missed out on all of these loopholes and bought in the worst window that a few months either way and could have saved thousands.

 

[Pexbo]

Tories pledging another stamp duty break reduction. Bloody infuriating that i seem to have missed out on all of these loopholes and bought in the worst window that a few months either way and could have saved thousands.

Don’t worry about it, they’re not going to be in government, you’re not missing anything.

If it makes you feel any better we bought our house in 2022 at the peak. We had an offer accepted for another property 18 months earlier and the sellers just couldn’t find another house. We ended up paying £45k more for the house we bought. Out of morbid curiosity we checked the estimated price of the house we could have had and it’s now £85k more than what we would have paid for it while our current house is only worth about £11k more.

 

[Smores]

Tories pledging another stamp duty break reduction. Bloody infuriating that i seem to have missed out on all of these loopholes and bought in the worst window that a few months either way and could have saved thousands.

I've had it happen twice in the last decade. I'm close to £10k paid in tax during that period just due to bad timing. It's an outrageous way to tax.

 

[rimaldo]

Right so now I understand how this will work,
Parents will drop off their kids at primary schools, where there will be no-one to look after them.
That'll work

lord of the flies works and will ensure a generation of leaders and pathetic serfs are moulded, making it an easy transition back to victorian workhouses instead of schools, and a time where this country was greatest.