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Gareth Southgate
- Thread starter keithsingleton
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I’m not defending him but that is true of all England managers in the history of the universe except one
It will be interesting to see what he ends up doing after he is done with England.
Do you think he will go back to club management after decades of not having done it? I can't see too many big clubs being keen. Or will he perhaps take some higher-up administrative position in the FA?
Do you think he will go back to club management after decades of not having done it? I can't see too many big clubs being keen. Or will he perhaps take some higher-up administrative position in the FA?
Definitely move into a senior role at the FA. He knows full well he’s a shit Manager and he will be offered a lucrative role within the FA which he can bimble along with for 30 years.
always feel like he gets himself into a halfway house of how he wants the team and giving the fans/media what they want, he wants a simple two holding and speed on the flanks, if he fully committed we’d have barely seen Grealish and Foden, probably won’t see Palmer, and he wouldn’t be trying to fudge TAA into the team, he’ll never get a tune out of those players. basically I’m saying he should’ve picked Rashford, and the crap performances have given him an excuse to do what he wants so in the next game I’d expect we will see Gallagher and Gordon
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And for todays act, he will wear a red nose.
INEOS are you watching..???
From a United perspective, surely these England performances couldn't be going much better...you'd hope..!!
From a United perspective, surely these England performances couldn't be going much better...you'd hope..!!
Repeats the same midfield set up that clearly wasn't working in the first game. Then knowing we needed more control in the middle of the park, he decides to bring on headless chicken Connor Gallagher instead of someone like a Mainoo. To end it off, moans about how we have missed effing Kalvin Phillips of all people in his post match presser. You can't make this up really.
His atire suggests he has aspirations to become a professional snooker player
I refuse to believe they considered him. I think journalists made a lazy assumption cause fo the Ashworth links.INEOS are you watching..???
From a United perspective, surely these England performances couldn't be going much better...you'd hope..!!
Yup, tell me when was the last time you've seen a professional club manager make a sub change to the entire Frontline at one go??? Only happens in Sunday league and club friendlies. Laughable really.
From last nights game it is clear the impact of Southgate's qualifying group strategy to 'defend first , second and third" is causing problems for players like Rice and Foden and destroying their confidence.
Rice starts in midfield with a right back alongside him, (as a two) then occasionally Bellingham (10) also drops back alongside him as a temporary 6, neither help give him the control necessary in midfield, also by the last ten minutes of the game Rice is so knackered at trying to play the midfield on his own that he makes simple mistakes you never see him make otherwise, out of sheer tiredness.
Foden is neither inside or outside, until when following Bellingham ( who moves into the 8 role) he comes inside and the best three moves we made on the Danish goal were where Foden was going down the middle.
If starting with a two in midfield, then the close control needed alongside Rice, is Mainoo, the wide left role by Gordon, and the alternative to Bellingham (which was definitely needed last night) is Palmer.
There were other attacking options with Watkins involved, but we didn't see them until late on.
OK so its imperative we get through this group stage, but 'limping' through as we are gives possible future opponents the opportunities to identify weakness and drains the confidence of players and fans alike.
This is definitely Gareth Southgate's last run out as England manager, the worry is where he goes next?
Rice starts in midfield with a right back alongside him, (as a two) then occasionally Bellingham (10) also drops back alongside him as a temporary 6, neither help give him the control necessary in midfield, also by the last ten minutes of the game Rice is so knackered at trying to play the midfield on his own that he makes simple mistakes you never see him make otherwise, out of sheer tiredness.
Foden is neither inside or outside, until when following Bellingham ( who moves into the 8 role) he comes inside and the best three moves we made on the Danish goal were where Foden was going down the middle.
If starting with a two in midfield, then the close control needed alongside Rice, is Mainoo, the wide left role by Gordon, and the alternative to Bellingham (which was definitely needed last night) is Palmer.
There were other attacking options with Watkins involved, but we didn't see them until late on.
OK so its imperative we get through this group stage, but 'limping' through as we are gives possible future opponents the opportunities to identify weakness and drains the confidence of players and fans alike.
This is definitely Gareth Southgate's last run out as England manager, the worry is where he goes next?
Send him to City as punishment for the 115 charges. Kicked out of the football pyramid or Southgate as manager for next 10 years. Their choice.
He's totally fecked it this time though, sadly for England. Even the players look like they know it, add on the Kalvin Phillips comments and they must be close to packing their bags in advance.
The Phillips and Henderson comments were really bizarre.
It give me McFred shivers.
It give me McFred shivers.
But also his line ups. When I saw the line up for the first game I knew this would not fly. Thank god I'm not English, I would be so pissed to have an incompetent manager wastes an amazing opportunity and a top squad
Correct, but that was the case for the majority of none elite teams. Team like France, Spain, Germany and Brazil at their peak were unplayable. It's one thing to be pragmatic if you know you have limitations, but if you're full of talent you go out and bully teams into submission. For some reason that has never happened with England, and I personally rate the Rio, Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Cole, Rooney generation much higher than the current one. The approach with England never changes, it's always cautious with managers trying fit in the big names even if it's not working. Southgate lacks the mentality and the skill to coach this team into dominating anyone. England might still win something under him because it's a cup competition after all, but he's out of his depth.
It’s a tournament too far for him. I wanted him to leave after the WC and I thought he would. It seemed a natural end and I was disappointed when he stayed on, so this doesn’t surprise me at all. I don’t think he has the balls to make wholesale changes to his lineup, and if we crawl through the group he likely won’t change a system that’s seen them progress.
I think the paradigm shift @Pexbo mentions still is visible, but I agree with you that it's not necessarily applicable to England.
The true top teams always were dominating and winning their matches in style, and yes England failed to ever behave that way even if they had a top squad. Despite all the songs about "football's coming home" England always was an underdog and behaved like one.
But the shift now is that smaller teams who in earlier years hoped to get through be being tough to beat and maybe nick a goal on the counter now just have a go at it. That happened less in earlier years.
So England doesn't behave like a top team, it also doesn't behave like a 2024 underdog, but like a 2010 underdog team.
Henderson should have been in the squad and first eleven. That kind of experience is vital. He is a leader and would help the team. Instantly. That is on Southgate. I find it bizarre that he said that they have been trying to find solution in that position for 7-8 years and without Rice he don't know where they would have been. I often understand managers and know they have it hard but I have to question his knowledge of how a midfielder should play and what is good quality. He could have taken Henderson, Prowse and even Barkley and improved that central midfield position.
Rice is better as an 8, Bellingham, Foden, Palmer are all better as 10s, so it is a tough on from hat perspective.
England don’t actually have a proper 6 and maybe that’s what is was grasping to say? Phillips as the example is just pure panic though.
Panicking and playing a full back there without the agility, close control or space awareness to play in midfield probably highlights just how lost he is.
Mainoo or Wharton with Rice and Gordon on for Foden is probably their best chance at a natural shape.
England don’t actually have a proper 6 and maybe that’s what is was grasping to say? Phillips as the example is just pure panic though.
Panicking and playing a full back there without the agility, close control or space awareness to play in midfield probably highlights just how lost he is.
Mainoo or Wharton with Rice and Gordon on for Foden is probably their best chance at a natural shape.
People do get confused between a 6 and 8. A 6 doesn't mean they sit and protect the back 4, because Rice is actually a top class 6 when we are in a low block, he senses danger, he covers the CB really well.
Also, Rice is a very good 8 when we press because he is a ball winner, he knows how to press, we saw yesterday when he pressed high and won the ball back.
What he needs is someone in midfield who understands the midfield role, come in Wharton and MAinoo. Mainoo has played both the 6 and 8 for United this season, so I dont get why Southgate would play a RB rather than CM in there.
The worst part about is that by starting Trent for the first two games (aside from the fact he experimented with Trent in midfield like one game before the Euros?), the pressure on either of Mainoo or Wharton to perform if they do get a chance is pretty much tenfold. Awful management in every capacity.
I don’t think there is any confusion, a 6 is someone who can control the game from deep and has good enough positional sense to protect the back 4. A 6 is the player at the base of midfield. This is not Rice’s best role and even Arsenal realized that later on in the season and brought in Jorginho to be that deep lying player.
Rice can do it, but it’s not his best role. England is a series of individuals not playing their best role and that is where the discomfort and nervousness comes from.
disagree, Hendersons legs have gone and he was below average for Ajax.
Has Southgate been asked why he's not playing Mainoo? I'm confused why he's not the answer.
Doesn't want him injured for when he starts as United manager next month.
Some things should not be joked about.
If he thinks not finding a replacement for Philips is the a) the main problem or b) not possible with his current squad then he's just lost it.
How does this thread only have 5 pages of outrage?
He should really be sacked before the next match.
i don’t even think it lineup selection matters that much. We have so many good players in the squad.
Just pick a balanced team and be brave enough to sit the remaining ones on the bench.
Here’s two very well balanced midfields for starters
—— Mainoo — Bellingham
—————— Rice
or
————— Foden
—— Wharton—Rice
Get Gordon and that West Ham lad on the wings for direct runs, aggression and pace and jobs a good ‘un. Stick Saka at RB against weaker opposition (ie not Mbappe) and we’ll have loads of attacking options
It’s all just being over complicated trying to please all the ‘best’ players. Foden is a great player for City but stuck out on the wing drifting into the same spaces as Bellingham and Kane.
And playing Trent or Gallagher in there ahead of truly quality players is such a dinosaur mindset.
Just pick a balanced team and be brave enough to sit the remaining ones on the bench.
Here’s two very well balanced midfields for starters
—— Mainoo — Bellingham
—————— Rice
or
————— Foden
—— Wharton—Rice
Get Gordon and that West Ham lad on the wings for direct runs, aggression and pace and jobs a good ‘un. Stick Saka at RB against weaker opposition (ie not Mbappe) and we’ll have loads of attacking options
It’s all just being over complicated trying to please all the ‘best’ players. Foden is a great player for City but stuck out on the wing drifting into the same spaces as Bellingham and Kane.
And playing Trent or Gallagher in there ahead of truly quality players is such a dinosaur mindset.
I think back to us knocking Germany out of Euro 2020/1. We outplayed Germany, and the majority said it was more to do with Germany being awful, which, okay, but you compare us two then to now where they're looking like one of the favourites and it's night and day. What's changed?
Well, you can talk about the players they've produced since then in the likes of Wirtz and Musiala, but we've produced more talents, too. One is in the running for the Ballon d'Or! It's about the managers. They replaced Low with two managers who favoured attacking football in Flick, who failed, and now Nagelsmann, and they're seemingly reaping the rewards for years of prioritising this style. Whereas, with us, we've stuck with a man who's failed numerous times and promotes José Mourinho 2005 football, and some bizarrely wonder how we've fell behind again.
Okay, you don't need the best managers for international football like you do at club level, but you can't hinder yourself with an eejit either.
Ivory sacked their manager after their first game and went on to win the whole thing.
Just saying.
Just saying.
It's trying to fit in their best player Bellingham that is making it so out of shape. Rice plays deeper than he needs to as Bellingham is in those attacking areas he'd surge into. Kane can't drop deep as Bellingham populates the same are. foden can't play as the 10 for the same reason. Play mainoo next to rice. Bellingham as ten. And A striker whose fit as kane clearly isn't.
If that was his concern wouldn't the obvious solution be to use Stones as a defensive midfielder, given he's actually played there often for City? Rather than Arnold who's barely ever played there? Konsa Guehi as a CB pairing would be fine with Stones in front as DM.
It's not what I would do personally but if that's what he sees as the issue it seems like an obvious solution to me. But I think he's probably just making up excuses as it doesn't even make sense in the first place.
Serendipity . That's the only way this clicks with Southgate . Save your breath and just cross your fingers .
I don't think Bowen should be near an England squad. Eze I don't think has had any chance to show what he can do at this level. 20 minutes in a game where England couldn't string an attack together doesn't tell you anything. Gallagher I don't think is good enough but wouldn't say out of his depth. He isn't going to work in a non functioning system though. You need more talented players and a tactical plan around him.
It is stupid talking about England as favourites though when Southgate is relying on players Like TAA and Gallagher in midfield and bringing on Bowen to change a game. If those three players were French or Spanish they would be sitting at home watching the games on TV.
I don't disagree but we are definitely better than what Southgate make us look like. We've been the most clueless looking team in the tournament. Its the individual ability of the players that drags Southgate out of the gutter time and time again, in spite of his twattish method of diverting the blame back onto them every time he fecks up.
I don’t think Southgate could coach those kind of setups and, as with Trent, moving into midfield is very different from actually playing there. But I agree, a set up that allowed Stones to do that would be ideal as it’s a very special skill.
His big mistake was not preparing for this scenario years ago. Sticking with players and not thinking forward to what the future could look like for England.
Calling the Trent in midfield setup an “experiment” is outrageous two games into a major tournament.
Tbh I feel like the less "coaching" he does the better. Lets say he played a midfield of Stones Rice Foden, Bellingham false 9, Gordon/Saka as wingers and just said go play like you do for your clubs, take risks, attack, press high, etc, I feel it would work better than whatever is being done now. Out of everyone in the squad Stones is probably best at doing that 6 role of receiving the ball out of the defense and moving it forward (aside from maybe Wharton but it doesn't seem like he'll get a look in with Southgate anyway). You have enough cover in the back line wit Konsa Guehi Walker Trippier and Stones DM to take the leash off the other players and let them actually play their games.
Just feel like I'm watching a car crash in slow motion here. Southgate is hurting the team more than helping.