Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

It was basically his fault that one of Dany's dragons got sniped for being such a dumbass. They basically turned him into the guy with a heart of gold but no brains.

They turned him into some naive muppet who was a brilliant fighter but completely stupid when it came to military tactics.

But obviously they had to invent some bullshit way to make a dragon die and for Jon Snow to be split up with the others. So instead of thinking the scenario through and come up with a semi decent explanation they instead let Jon charge into thousands of the dead for no reason? :lol:
 
It was basically his fault that one of Dany's dragons got sniped for being such a dumbass. They basically turned him into the guy with a heart of gold but no brains.

Dumbing down of characters was a problem in GOT from a start. Jon Snow suffers from that more than most.
 
They turned him into some naive muppet who was a brilliant fighter but completely stupid when it came to military tactics.

But obviously they had to invent some bullshit way to make a dragon die and for Jon Snow to be split up with the others. So instead of thinking the scenario through and come up with a semi decent explanation they instead let Jon charge into thousands of the dead for no reason? :lol:

And he charges Ramseys army single-handedly in the battle of the bastards that got most of his men killed and would have gotten them all killed if Littlefinger hadn't come to the rescue with knights of the vale. He is like literally the worst military leader in the history of westeros.

He couldn't keep his mouth shut about his heritage either when there was an extremely good reason why Ned Stark kept it a secret his entire life. Since "he don't wan it", he should just shut up about it.
In the books he actually described as one of the far more intelligent kids of Ned Stark and his appearance is far more lean and nimble. Show Jon is much different than the book Jon
 
Just turned onto an ep of game of thrones there, the part where daenerys saves the guys in the frozen bit, Jon snow does absolutely feck all fighting till they're supposed to get on the dragon then decided to start slashing walkers one by one getting further away from the dragon for absolutely no feckin reason. He really was a joke character.

So much weirdness in that episode. Concept of time, convenient timing of the Hound throwing that rock on the frozen water and Dany as if by magic turning up a few minutes later, ice king turning into a javelin and darts world champion, Jon being a dumbass (actually that was the only thing that made sense in the episode, he always was a dumb feck), ice gang not only having chains at their disposal but also being able to effortlessly put those around the body of a dragon underwater and pull it out of the water, Benjen saying "there's no time to jump on the horse" when in reality there was more than enough time for that so basically he ended up dying for no reason (he actually had far less time when he rescued Bran and Meera), Dany and co. just disappearing completely thinking the ice king was going to hurl spears at them from miles away, why didn't she come back to save Jon?

Almost forgot to mention that the whole mission was a farce from the beginning. They assembled a suicide squad just so they could convince... Cersei. Genius work by Tyrion.

The likes of Jon and Tyrion were good side characters in the first few seasons. They should have either remained side characters or got killed off as soon as they started becoming main characters.
 
Or had better writers who didn't dumb them down

Tyrion joining with Dany should have been so much better. His convos with varys could have been better after he left KL.

Ramsay vs night king would have been a better battle
Although if Ramsay had won, the NK would never have had a dragon to tear down the wall ...
 
Just turned onto an ep of game of thrones there, the part where daenerys saves the guys in the frozen bit, Jon snow does absolutely feck all fighting till they're supposed to get on the dragon then decided to start slashing walkers one by one getting further away from the dragon for absolutely no feckin reason. He really was a joke character.
Btw I think I enjoy this episode as a one off spectacle

However knowing what happens after makes this probably one of the worst episodes in the show.
I would probably defend this episode now if the parts that came after were more like spoils of war episode rather than more like this one

There was a lot of stupidity in this episode but I really thought this was a short cut episode to advance things. Instead of a one off way to get from a to be, this became the norm.
 
Weird this just popped back up in time. I just finished rewatching GoT for the first time since I've watched the show. I didn't realise how insanely packed S4 was till now. Its officially the best single season in TV history. Just wow. Then. I got to S8 and you know what, I actually really like the winterfell battle. It was actually kinda epic and the music playing when the NK is walking thought the castle while everyone is fighting for their lives was a great scene. Though Jon not fighting him Directly still annoys me. And the last 2 episodes, while I dont like any of the decisions whatsoever, it was a fun watch at least. The show hurts a bit less now that I've rewatched it.

And yes Charles Dance, I signed that damn petition too. In fact if they could just tweak a few scenes differently. It would actually fixed itself. Just have to redo the last episode and you've somewhat made it more bearable.
 
Let it die. It already is anyway, nobody even talks about it anymore.

Stuff like Breaking Bad, The Wire has endured. GoT disappeared from everyone's minds after a month.
 
Season 4 is easily the best season, imo.

Tywin has got to be one of the best characters in television. I was never bored when he was on screen.
 
Let it die. It already is anyway, nobody even talks about it anymore.

Stuff like Breaking Bad, The Wire has endured. GoT disappeared from everyone's minds after a month.

Not quite. Although I dont know who you consider as everyone.
 
Weird this just popped back up in time. I just finished rewatching GoT for the first time since I've watched the show. I didn't realise how insanely packed S4 was till now. Its officially the best single season in TV history. Just wow. Then. I got to S8 and you know what, I actually really like the winterfell battle. It was actually kinda epic and the music playing when the NK is walking thought the castle while everyone is fighting for their lives was a great scene. Though Jon not fighting him Directly still annoys me. And the last 2 episodes, while I dont like any of the decisions whatsoever, it was a fun watch at least. The show hurts a bit less now that I've rewatched it.

And yes Charles Dance, I signed that damn petition too. In fact if they could just tweak a few scenes differently. It would actually fixed itself. Just have to redo the last episode and you've somewhat made it more bearable.
If they rewrote even the last 4 episodes I would consider a whole rewatch of them all.
 
If they rewrote even the last 4 episodes I would consider a whole rewatch of them all.
I mean what I would add scenes to just fix it a bit is. In the yard when NK is going for bran, he wargs into the dragon that was holding Jon off, and fly the dragon over the yard burning the walkers and the NK's bodyguards, whatever you call them. That gives jon a chance to actually fight him and we see the showdown we've waiting 8 seasons for. And Arya still goes in for the kill before the NK kills jon.

Then instead of Dany pulling a reverse Uno card on everyone even after she's fecking already won. Cersei fires a Skorpian that was hidden in the Wall of Kings landing (Look at the intro song to that episode, you see the Skorpian under the throne pulling up and aiming at the dragon, that's what I thought was going to happen). So that fires toward her but misses Dany but knocks her off Drogon. Drogon then sees dany knocked out on the floor so he gets pissed and then its Drogon burning everything rather then Dany. Dany, later after that episode uses the same Skorpian to kill Drogon because she knows full well that he cant live in that world she wants. So yeah that would be bittersweet at least. Then I guess just change a few scenes in the last 2 episode. I know its pointless going on about it because it might never happen. But I enjoy talking about it still :D
 
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Season 4 is easily the best season, imo.

Tywin has got to be one of the best characters in television. I was never bored when he was on screen.
It's pretty class. I thought the episodes in The House of Black And White flagged a bit until the fight between Arya and The Waif
 
Let it die. It already is anyway, nobody even talks about it anymore.

Stuff like Breaking Bad, The Wire has endured. GoT disappeared from everyone's minds after a month.
It really hasn't if it's still a highly watched show on Sky.

My wife never saw the original and is watching it from the start. I'll bet it's garnered a good few new viewers since the repeat started
 
Weird this just popped back up in time. I just finished rewatching GoT for the first time since I've watched the show. I didn't realise how insanely packed S4 was till now. Its officially the best single season in TV history. Just wow. Then. I got to S8 and you know what, I actually really like the winterfell battle. It was actually kinda epic and the music playing when the NK is walking thought the castle while everyone is fighting for their lives was a great scene. Though Jon not fighting him Directly still annoys me. And the last 2 episodes, while I dont like any of the decisions whatsoever, it was a fun watch at least. The show hurts a bit less now that I've rewatched it.

And yes Charles Dance, I signed that damn petition too. In fact if they could just tweak a few scenes differently. It would actually fixed itself. Just have to redo the last episode and you've somewhat made it more bearable.


Shame he wasn't on set at the time to tell them just how stupid the Committee scene was .

I notice how he and the actors who plays Jamie and Varys can be honest and say how dumb the last season was but a lot of the the younger actors are too worried about their career to admit it
 
It really hasn't if it's still a highly watched show on Sky.

My wife never saw the original and is watching it from the start. I'll bet it's garnered a good few new viewers since the repeat started


If it hasn't died yet snd it is dying it soon will . The vast majority of people who watched it were so disappointed with the ending they will never watch it again or talk about it being good
 
It's pretty class. I thought the episodes in The House of Black And White flagged a bit until the fight between Arya and The Waif

That's season 5 :smirk:

Season 4: The Purple Wedding, Tyrion's Trial, The Mountain vs The Viper, The Night's Watch vs The Wildlings, Tyrion vs Tywin, Brienne vs The Hound.
 
Shame he wasn't on set at the time to tell them just how stupid the Committee scene was .

I notice how he and the actors who plays Jamie and Varys can be honest and say how dumb the last season was but a lot of the the younger actors are too worried about their career to admit it
Honestly I'm very surprised Jon and Dany didnt say anything to D and D about that crap. Especially since they have all the power. They are probably more rich already to even worry about money a f5 get the show. Especially Kit. Hes still distraught about the show and Varys looked pissed at the table when he read the script hah. Easiest season to ever make and they did the opposite to every single scenario. Now D&D dont get the Disney money. The pricks.
 
That's season 5 :smirk:

Season 4: The Purple Wedding, Tyrion's Trial, The Mountain vs The Viper, The Night's Watch vs The Wildlings, Tyrion vs Tywin, Brienne vs The Hound.
That’s what I meant to add; season 5 flagged after the brilliance of 4
 
Weird this just popped back up in time. I just finished rewatching GoT for the first time since I've watched the show. I didn't realise how insanely packed S4 was till now. Its officially the best single season in TV history. Just wow. Then. I got to S8 and you know what, I actually really like the winterfell battle. It was actually kinda epic and the music playing when the NK is walking thought the castle while everyone is fighting for their lives was a great scene. Though Jon not fighting him Directly still annoys me. And the last 2 episodes, while I dont like any of the decisions whatsoever, it was a fun watch at least. The show hurts a bit less now that I've rewatched it.

And yes Charles Dance, I signed that damn petition too. In fact if they could just tweak a few scenes differently. It would actually fixed itself. Just have to redo the last episode and you've somewhat made it more bearable.
I always liked it as a spectacle. It was a cinematic masterpiece and to think this was done for TV is just mind blowing.

Also I've had bigger disappointments than season 8 of GoT. The last book in the Harry Potter series p'd me off so much that I never watched the last two films and I wish I never watched The Hobbit films a total travesty.
 
I always liked it as a spectacle. It was a cinematic masterpiece and to think this was done for TV is just mind blowing.

The episode itself was wonderfully produced, one of the most incredible bits of TV I can remember.

As part of a broader story though, it was a bit of a disappointment along with the rest of season 8, and probably season 7 as well.
 
Let it die. It already is anyway, nobody even talks about it anymore.

Stuff like Breaking Bad, The Wire has endured. GoT disappeared from everyone's minds after a month.
And yet here we are, talking about it...
 
I'm still struggling to get my head around that final season. And quite how they made it SO bad.

I watched them all after the show was already over and heard a lot about "don't watch the last season" - I thought 'okay the last season will be a let down, but it's not going to be as bad as people say'

Wow. Dreadful.

The show was fantastic, a few bum storylines. But very gripping. Then the last season, every loose end had the worst possible outcome.
 
Lots of utterly terrible tv doesn’t get a mention. Where’s the thread for Mystery Road for example?


Was that hyped as the best tv show ever ?

It's the same as Westwood which also got hyped up as the greatest show you will ever see yet turned out to be "Meh"

Thrones however was delivering for a while but then turned to complete garbage
 
Only because it was so bad
But that wasn't the claim made by the user I quoted. The claim was that it disappeared from everyone's minds, and yet here we are sharing links to articles where Charles Dance said he wasn't happy with the ending. It hasn't disappeared from everyone's minds at all. Fifteen months on and we're still having debates about it. Miriam Margoyles has been in the press this week talking about how she never watched the Harry Potter movies and only did it for the money. It's had basically zero coverage, except for Harry Potter subreddits and that, so does that mean Harry Potter's not culturally relevant? Of course not.

And that's without getting into the amount of complete idiots in American political commentary who've spent the week comparing Kamala Harris to Daenerys. And the amount of people who claimed 'Mad Woman' from Taylor Swift's new album was about Daenerys as well. The ending might have been shite for a lot of people but that doesn't mean it's been forgotten overnight like so many people continue to claim over a year after it finished. It was one of the most-watched shows during lockdown and it recently won some poll on Digital Spy for the title of "Best TV show of the century". People who hated the ending still complain about it.

Now that Digital Spy poll is obviously complete bollocks because there's no way GoT is the best TV show of the last 20 years, but the evidence is there in black and white that people still talk about the show (https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a33467683/best-tv-shows-of-21st-century-revealed/). Hell, Charles Dance only passed comment on season 8 because an interviewer felt the need to ask him about it - because GoT gets clicks and traffic, because people are still interested in debating it regardless of whether they liked it or not. That the last season was good/bad/average is neither here nor there, people still talk about it.
 
This in a nutshell.

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For 1-3 were slow burning but engaging throughout because of strong characters and events.

4 was just an incredible rollercoaster.

5 was a little hacky in Dorne but still interesting everywhere else and introduced the High Sparrow, cranking the political intrigue up a notch. It also gave us the first real look at the Night King.

6 should've been the peak of the action oriented stuff. It still had characters acting like characters.

7 decided that the action in 6 wasn't enough and dove further into firey explosions and felt rushed. Characters started doing things that were out of place for the sake of pushing a narrative. It created the illusion of intrigue.

8 was just a fecking mess. It became like a Transformers movie with shit jokes and flashing lights.

Basically, they shot their load with the last two episodes of Season 6 with regards to spectacle, and decided to just make episodes that would create reaction videos on YouTube. I just hate how much of a sour taste it leaves in the mouth after the initial surprise has vanished. There's nothing to reflect on after the shocking moments like the earlier seasons, where you would watch them back and start to notice the warning signs of what was to come.
 
People talking about how bad a show is not a good look for the show .

Ypu can't come up with the excuse of well if everyone is talking about it then it must be worthwhile if the vast majority are only talking about it because it turned so crap it will always be hard to understand just what the creators were thinking at the end if they were thinking at all
 
But it hasnt disappeared out of peoples minds which is what it was stated as initially. As that isnt the case, @robinamicrowave is correct.

Now that Digital Spy poll is obviously complete bollocks because there's no way GoT is the best TV show of the last 20 years,

Ive been thinking about it, and for me it probably is. I mean since 2000 im thinking about shows which might be better (that ive seen)
Shield, Wire, Breaking Bad didnt have the amazing drop off that GoT had. But I really think GoT had the highest peak of the shows and thats for 6 seasons. You could even include season 7 minus the episode they go north of north (as the moneytrain episode was just fantastic and the season finale was a lot of fun too).

Depends on preference of course and whether youre going for overall quality (or which had higher quality consistently and not worried about the drop at the end).
 
Ive been thinking about it, and for me it probably is. I mean since 2000 im thinking about shows which might be better (that ive seen)
Shield, Wire, Breaking Bad didnt have the amazing drop off that GoT had. But I really think GoT had the highest peak of the shows and thats for 6 seasons. You could even include season 7 minus the episode they go north of north (as the moneytrain episode was just fantastic and the season finale was a lot of fun too).

Depends on preference of course and whether youre going for overall quality (or which had higher quality consistently and not worried about the drop at the end).
I don't think it can be disputed that it was the biggest and most popular show of the century thus far, except maybe for Lost. But even then, Lost wasn't pirated to the extent that Game of Thrones was. Internationally, I remember seeing that season 7's episodes were downloaded more than a billion times in total (so, roughly 150m illegal downloads per episode), and those download figures were always consistently high, even during the early days where it was popular on HBO but not a worldwide phenomenon. If we're talking about event television (where battle episodes are like cup finals, and the weeks in between episodes are full of feverish excitement and anticipation) then I don't think GoT has any rival for this century. But in terms of quality, eh...

This goes on a bit so I'll spoiler. :lol:

You know GoT is my favourite TV show (except maybe for The Simpsons golden age) and that I'll defend the later seasons on here, but the likes of Mad Men, The Wire, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, Hannibal, The Sopranos, The Leftovers, Deadwood, The Handmaid's Tale, The West Wing, and even shows like Orange is the New Black, have strong cases to be considered "better quality". Love the show as I do, I think there's been a wee bit of revisionism about the first 4-6 seasons, which were full of plot problems and contrivances - they were just overlooked, either because it was GRRM's vision or because it was building towards something. Seasons 1-6 pulled stunts that seasons 7 & 8 would have been destroyed for, but they're looked back on as this super-clever, super-serious, super-nuanced, super-airtight story, when it was never that?

To me it was always campy and soapy, always full of contrivances, always more about set-up and pay-off, always about being transgressive and provocative, always about setting up moments rather than meticulously weaving a beautiful path towards them. Of course, those soap-opera elements and contrivances got louder and louder (and in some cases, more ridiculous) towards the end. It became so dedicated to delivering moments that it compressed too many into shorter spaces, which meant it became too plot-heavy and lost portions of the elegance it did have. But maybe that's why I found it easier to tolerate as the show gradually changed? I never loved GoT because I expected super-prestige, character-focused, super-artful drama that Mad Men, Better Call Saul, etc. went for, I loved it because it was pulpy, sexy, exciting, provocative, and really melodramatic. "Tits and dragons", you might say, if you were being uncharitable.

Its true strengths were always either technical (how immersive the world was, how impressive the battles and dragons looked), linked to the source material (the richness of the world and the characters, the danger of daring to love the characters), or setting up, and then delivering, massive spectacles - even small-scale events like Ned's death or the Red Wedding were treated with all the overblown drama of something like Battle of the Bastards or The Long Night. That's not to say the dialogue of the first 4/5 seasons didn't have me round its finger, and that's not to say that it lost some of its subtlety, incisiveness, and intrigue as it went along, but a perfect prestige TV show it never was. It was a horny fantasy melodrama hidden inside something that only appeared to be cleverer and more ruthless than it actually was.