Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

Also Bran said he cant be a Lord or have any titles like 2 episodes before, but then said 'why do you think im here' when offered being King. Im sure 'making sense' isnt the worst thing for D&D since they were 'cutting corners' :P


That should have been a heel turn (like he got into the mind of past figures, the WW's and manipulated things to make himself King rather than just whatever it was he did).
Yeah, the Bran stuff is the major only conclusion I have a problem with. Not the fact that he's king, but more how it comes about. You could say I liked the idea but didn't like the execution. ;) He's not human and is therefore unable to be corrupted as man would be, so him being chosen as ruler makes sense. I also like the idea of his powers remaining ambiguous because it's the right sort of thing to leave open to interpretation -- I'm not sure there's any way to explain them and have it be satisfying. As far as I've managed to work out from things he both did and didn't say after becoming the Three-Eyed-Raven, he can see everything in the past and present ("I can see things that happened in the past. I can see things happening now all over the world"), but only fractions of the future ("It's all pieces, fragments"). That's enough for me to go away happy.

So, with that in mind, why did they have him say "Why do you think I came all this way?" I can explain it for myself by saying it's just Bran accepting his obligation, but unless you're like me and willing to put background work in (re-watching, reading scripts, etc.), it implies that he foresaw Dany's downfall and allowed it to happen. I'm not sure that was their intention at all because the mood of his coronation is generally optimistic. If they'd intended to make him more sinister they'd have gone for a different musical cue instead of a celebratory variation on the Stark theme. There's a scene they cut out of the series finale where Bran allows a bug to crawl over his hand and away to safety, mirroring Tyrion's story about his cousin remorselessly smashing beetles, and it perfectly explains the kind of king he'll be, but having him suggest that he somehow foresaw his coronation leaves a question mark where there just doesn't need to be one.

Also, I think, on a re-watch, I found the tonal shift between Dany's death and the election scene to be really jarring. Within the space of a single scene they went from completing the tragic downfall of a main character, condemning the corruption, pain, and impulses that took her to her grave, to suddenly welcoming a bright and lovely vision for the future. I didn't think the pacing in season 8 affected whether the plot made sense to me, but it definitely prevented the characters from being able to properly ruminate on things in the moment. After 'The Long Night' I'd have really appreciated some time to reflect with the characters about the major battle they'd just survived, but the next episode kinda forces you towards King's Landing in a hurry. The same thing happens in the last episode -- I wanted to feel upset about Dany's death for a second, not be whisked into the future before I was ready.

That's not to say I didn't feel anything. I still think the last 4/5 episodes were bold and risky and I get quite a lot of poignant and honest feelings out of them (and I appreciate that D&D are very much "show don't tell" storytellers). But still, even making the last season be eight episodes long would have made a nice difference for me in that regard. I don't think Dany's downfall would have been easier to stomach because genocide is genocide and there's no way to rationalise it no matter how much time you spend on it, but splitting 'The Last of the Starks' and 'The Iron Throne' into two episodes each would have just felt less like they were travelling at speed. The clues are all there in the dialogue and everything makes sense, but the lack of time we get to reflect on the story's major beats is what stopped it from being a genuinely brilliant experience.

I feel like there's a perception of me on here that I think the last season was perfect but, like, it wasn't, it was pretty good and I was happy with that. Pretty good is still pretty good.

When I talk about D&D "cutting corners" I meant less about the mysteries and theories they left unexplained and more about the storylines they hoovered up just before the end so they could narrow the focus of the story. Second-tier houses like the Freys, Martells & Tyrells were wiped out in single strokes; Essos, the Vale & the Iron Islands were left behind after season 6; characters had their stories combined; we were asked to presume that people were too frightened of Cersei to revolt after the Sept explosion etc. The fact D&D finished their story while George struggles to open his third act suggests such corner cutting was a necessary evil. Some of my satisfaction from the final season comes from being convinced that there was no way to end a story this big, with so many variables and possibilities. Unbelievably, it made sense to me and I thought it actually had something to say. I think that's something worth commending, so I do.
 
Then why the hell did they made Bran king. They should not have made any king. The same Bran who could not be the Lord of Winterfell, but he can be the King of 6 kingdoms.

Furthermore, i believe whatever they wanted us to interpret, they did an awful job of showing it. For me they should have made Jon or Dany as one of these two made perfect sense as rulers.

All 7 seasons we were made to believe Jon and Dany were just and fair rulers who were different from all the others. If they became rulers they would break the wheel of power. Lastly John never wanted to be the king.
Have just made a post about my feelings regarding Bran becoming king. Hope it answers some of your questions!
 
The funniest part to come out of the shit show of the final season is the Hollywood white washing of DnD.

They were being handed the keys to the empire (strikes back) and they threw it all away by short changing the fans and series that had got them to where they are now.

I'm sure they regret massively the decison to rush to the end so they could start new projects. They'll likely never live down the legacy of GoT and that could prevent them getting a big gig again.
:lol: I hope when they were brought into the Disney meeting room before being told to bugger off they were given bread and salt.
 
@robinamicrowave Youre putting more thought into this than the D&D. I am pretty confident of that. All the detail and justification you are putting in to excuse D&D, gets wiped when you hear their post show thoughts on why they did stuff. We know they spent around 3 years on the last season or two, but majority of it was execution of what they wrote, rather than a balance between writing a good story and executing it.

You also try a lot to 'say' that youre criticising them, but even in a post where youre trying to put your thoughts on what you didnt like, youre basically going into what was good about it the ending, and saying how it made sense to you / how it was impossible to end this story.

The funniest part to come out of the shit show of the final season is the Hollywood white washing of DnD.

They were being handed the keys to the empire (strikes back) and they threw it all away by short changing the fans and series that had got them to where they are now.

I'm sure they regret massively the decison to rush to the end so they could start new projects. They'll likely never live down the legacy of GoT and that could prevent them getting a big gig again.

Not only that, but then they did a cameo for another show based on GoT. Bleh.
 
So reading the book, the Lannisters had green eyes.

What green eyed person did arya kill then to fulfill her prophecy, or did they forget that part?

Surely the plan should have been for her to kill Cersei
 
So reading the book, the Lannisters had green eyes.

What green eyed person did arya kill then to fulfill her prophecy, or did they forget that part?

Surely the plan should have been for her to kill Cersei
What colour did LF have?
 
So reading the book, the Lannisters had green eyes.

What green eyed person did arya kill then to fulfill her prophecy, or did they forget that part?

Surely the plan should have been for her to kill Cersei

You're probably best bumping the book thread to ask specific book questions. People still are a bit sensitive to book spoilers in this thread. But a lot of appearances were changed as DnD didn't think the audience would believe people with purple eyes, despite all the dragons and magic, purple eyes would have been too much apparently.

Edit: that "prophecy" was show only and the importance of BLUE eyes really was retconned into it to subvert our expectations.
 
You're probably best bumping the book thread to ask specific book questions. People still are a bit sensitive to book spoilers in this thread. But a lot of appearances were changed as DnD didn't think the audience would believe people with purple eyes, despite all the dragons and magic, purple eyes would have been too much apparently.

Edit: that "prophecy" was show only and the importance of BLUE eyes really was retconned into it to subvert our expectations.
Ok so that last part makes it even worse.

If it was show only and they reiterated it in the final season, did they just forget it?

Didnt realise there was a book thread, thanks
 
Ok so that last part makes it even worse.

If it was show only and they reiterated it in the final season, did they just forget it?

Didnt realise there was a book thread, thanks

To me it seemed like they thought its be a really cool moment to have that interaction in season 3, which is was to be fair. But then by the end they seemed to forget that scene and then forced it back into the story and also used it as a reason why it had apparently been telegraphed Arya would kill the NK.
 
I thought that was one of the clever things they did. We knew Arya and the Priestess would meet again based on what she said.
Having them 'meet' again like with that line, was nicely done.
 
I thought that was one of the clever things they did. We knew Arya and the Priestess would meet again based on what she said.
Having them 'meet' again like with that line, was nicely done.

Watch the two scenes. They clearly just used that line to make it seem like it had all been prophesied when it really hadn't.
 
Watch the two scenes. They clearly just used that line to make it seem like it had all been prophesied when it really hadn't.
I know, but my point is, I thought it was one of the better things they did to work with what they were going for.
 
Watch the two scenes. They clearly just used that line to make it seem like it had all been prophesied when it really hadn't.
They wouldnt have said that so early if they didnt.

GRRM could have told them thay was his end game
 
They wouldnt have said that so early if they didnt.

GRRM could have told them thay was his end game

I suggest you go and watch those two scenes. The only thing missing from their reunion is Mel looking at the camera a wiggling her eyebrows when she says blue eyes.
 
I suggest you go and watch those two scenes. The only thing missing from their reunion is Mel looking at the camera a wiggling her eyebrows when she says blue eyes.
So why even put it in there in the first place?

Even if it meant nothing, come the final season they could have made it mean everything and have arya kill both the NK and Cersei.

Also, if Arya didn't kill the NK, the 2 seasons she was training to be a faceless man would have been totally pointless. They had to have her kill someone of importance.

Maybe im giving them to much credit, but if they didnt intend for her to kill the NK when they originally put that in the show v.early on then i duno what to think about any of it. It had to be part pf her story arc
 
So why even put it in there in the first place?

Even if it meant nothing, come the final season they could have made it mean everything and have arya kill both the NK and Cersei.

Also, if Arya didn't kill the NK, the 2 seasons she was training to be a faceless man would have been totally pointless. They had to have her kill someone of importance

Tbh we may be best continuing this over PM or in the book thread because I'll need to reference them to explain why her killing the NK in the show was simply for shock and awe.
 
Tbh we may be best continuing this over PM or in the book thread because I'll need to reference them to explain why her killing the NK in the show was simply for shock and awe.
Pm me good sir, im only starting the books!

Ps i edited that post before you replied
 
Surely book talk is allowed here now that the show is over?

I think on the post show material, D&D said they planned it for 4 years? I kinda have a hard time believing that but who knows.
But 4 years goes after that initial scene... right?

I think Arya was done just cos they thought it was 'different'
 
Surely book talk is allowed here now that the show is over?

I think on the post show material, D&D said they planned it for 4 years? I kinda have a hard time believing that but who knows.
But 4 years goes after that initial scene... right?

I think Arya was done just cos they thought it was 'different'
I know I'm banging the same drum over and over again but they confused "cause and effect" with "subverting expectations". Which is why I think they never really understood what the Red Wedding really was.
 
Surely book talk is allowed here now that the show is over?

There’s probably a few posters here who are planning to read the books some day. Given how widely they diverge from the show in books 4 and 5, perhaps it’s best to keep it to the book thread?
 
There’s probably a few posters here who are planning to read the books some day. Given how widely they diverge from the show in books 4 and 5, perhaps it’s best to keep it to the book thread?
Pretty significantly even before books 4 & 5 to be honest.
 
Pretty significantly even before books 4 & 5 to be honest.

Yeah. Season one is almost a perfect adaptation of the first book. After that things start diverging.

Getting an urge now for another read.
 
So why even put it in there in the first place?

Even if it meant nothing, come the final season they could have made it mean everything and have arya kill both the NK and Cersei.

Also, if Arya didn't kill the NK, the 2 seasons she was training to be a faceless man would have been totally pointless. They had to have her kill someone of importance.

Maybe im giving them to much credit, but if they didnt intend for her to kill the NK when they originally put that in the show v.early on then i duno what to think about any of it. It had to be part pf her story arc
They pretty much were totally pointless. She spent some time getting beat with a stick before developing super powers. They didn't seem to know what to do with any of that.
 
I'm sure she was built to kill somebody. Cersei would have made sense given her characters motivation
 
A year later, I still cannot really believe how they botched that 8th season :wenger:
I still think episodes 1 to 3 were fine. They could have killed a few more of during the battle with the NK but overall they were fine.

It was the last 3 that were bad.
 
Is there a divisive ending that puts you off a show more than GoT? I can't think of it. Lost? Dexter? I guess because this show is so character driven that's what makes it harder to rewatch. So many people start to do so many things that are out of character simply because the writers need events to happen.
 
Season 6,7,8 were utter garbage. Progressively spiraling into abyss of D&D's creative empty space between their ears.
 
Is there a divisive ending that puts you off a show more than GoT? I can't think of it. Lost? Dexter? I guess because this show is so character driven that's what makes it harder to rewatch. So many people start to do so many things that are out of character simply because the writers need events to happen.

I gave up on Lost and Dexter’s ending just makes me laugh more than anything.
 
Killing the main characters at the end of season 1 and then again at the Red Wedding was terrible writing. D&D are shit.
 
Is there a divisive ending that puts you off a show more than GoT? I can't think of it. Lost? Dexter? I guess because this show is so character driven that's what makes it harder to rewatch. So many people start to do so many things that are out of character simply because the writers need events to happen.
Battlestar Galactica
HIMYM
 
Is there a divisive ending that puts you off a show more than GoT? I can't think of it. Lost? Dexter? I guess because this show is so character driven that's what makes it harder to rewatch. So many people start to do so many things that are out of character simply because the writers need events to happen.
Not a TV show, but Mass Effect 3's ending retroactively ruined the rest of the series for me.