Television Game of Thrones (TV) • The watch has ended

What a load of shite.

Needed a whole lot more time than it got, which would be forgivable if it wasn't for the two whole episodes in this series where ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENED. Plus the countless pointlessly long scenes. Even this one had about five minutes of tyrion just wandering about.

Bran as k8nf just smacks of them trying to be unpredictable rather than telling a good story. The reasoning for it was weak and made no sense.
 
noodlehair said:
What a load of shite.

Needed a whole lot more time than it got, which would be forgivable if it wasn't for the two whole episodes in this series where ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENED. Plus the countless pointlessly long scenes. Even this one had about five minutes of tyrion just wandering about.

Bran as k8nf just smacks of them trying to be unpredictable rather than telling a good story. The reasoning for it was weak and made no sense.
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Can you do us a Noodle characters rating of the last episode.
 
Organic Potatoes said:
Didn’t they have to re-work the pilot, because there was so much going on and so many characters introduced?

Not sure if it was re-shot entirely or what...
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Something like that. Supposedly during test screenings of the original pilot, nobody understood why Jaime threw Bran out the window in it because they didn't cop that him and Cersei were bother and sister.
 
lsd said:
I've no idea why Greyworm wasn't arrested instead of Jon .

Greyworm went mad killed innocent people . Jon killed a mad tyrant same as Jamie who wasn't arrested .

The Dothraki don't care if their leader is killed they follow whoever killed them.

Jon has his army of the North and others plus is the true hier. It seriously makes no sense .
Even if he doesn't want it's his choice other Greyworms
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He led an army of thousands of soldiers. Elite soldiers who are on a different level to random Northern levies. Killing him would have cost thousands of lives.

The Dothraki clearly changed their ways for Daenerys, who they worshipped. She was also stabbed going in for a kiss, not defeated in a duel. They absolutely would have fought to the death for her.

Jon didn't even want the throne and the army of the North was probably down to several thousand men at this point. The Unsullied/Dothraki forced seemed to have numbered at least the same and they had the defensive position + superior troops. The quality of dothraki/unsullied vs standard westerosi levies has been made pretty clear, they're actual warriors. Knights can stand up against them but how many genuine Knights does Westeros have left right now?

They had to make peace, or risk even more carnage. The problem is that it makes zero sense that the unsullied/dothraki (who we know pride themselves on fighting to the death) were happy to release the man that killed Daenerys who they worshipped like a goddess, as long as he went North of the Wall. They would have demanded his execution. They also accepted the man who planned their Queen's death being made Hand of the King with no tangible punishment beyond that total bullshit Bran span up.

Basically, almost zero consequences for killing Daenerys. Both sides just kind of accepted it and were happy to move past the atrocities committed and the murder of their loved ones (greyworm 5 minutes ago was slaughtering surrendering soldiers) because they had to wrap it up. Cue Dothraki wandering happily through the streets of the city they just raped and murdered their way through, and Greyworm sailing off in to the sunset to a paradise island.

What they should have done (if they had the balls & the time, i.e don't waste two episodes sat around Winterfell fan servicing) is shown the aftermath of Dany's death leading to the dothraki going wild and the Unsullied led by a Greyworm who now despises Westeros for what it did to his Queen and the love of his life. With the dragon out of the picture we actually could have got some battle scenes with real tension.

That wouldn't have been perfect, but it would have been a hell of a lot more interesting and engaging (imo) than skipping to a bunch of boring council scenes laden with crap humour and shit fan service. It also would have made a lot more sense than the happy clappy shit which we got.
 
What is fan service? I’m sure no fan wanted bran to be king. I’m sure no fan wanted Jon sent to the nights watch.

There’s a few things that stood out as strange and no sense (Tyrion speech at the pit when he’s prisoner, Sansa allowed to keep winterfell separate) but jeez people love to feel superior and are certainly wasted in their day jobs. I’ve never read ‘awful writing” or “fan service” so much in my life.


SquishyMcSquish said:
The last season was bad and the final episode was terrible (a good first half hour doesn't change the fact that the entire second half was the worst of any tv show finale ever) and whilst that doesn't destroy the show, it does mean people are going to be left with a massive feeling of disappointment.

Personally I have an urge to go back and watch the show, but the seasons where it was actually well written, made sense and wasn't just pure fan service.
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SteveJ said:
How the f*ck do you GoT fans keep up with the zillions of characters?!? I couldn't keep up with War and Peace, let alone this...
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It's quite easy with visuals. What I don't understand is how the book nerds do it. They've memorised every character's wardrobe, diet and whatnot.
 
noodlehair said:
What a load of shite.

Needed a whole lot more time than it got, which would be forgivable if it wasn't for the two whole episodes in this series where ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENED. Plus the countless pointlessly long scenes. Even this one had about five minutes of tyrion just wandering about.

Bran as k8nf just smacks of them trying to be unpredictable rather than telling a good story. The reasoning for it was weak and made no sense.
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What it smacks of, is like every other decision they made, is trying to twist for the sake of it but within the boundaries of going down the TV route. They had to hit beats, but in between had free reign. They followed on from what was popular and ran with that, and I don't even blame them.


In all honestly, all my joking aside, the problem starts and ends with the books. GRRM hasn't got the story telling magic that people think to end this, D&D certainly didn't. The TV show worked because the people behind it were true geniuses at what they do, they brought that world to life. They finished it, despite the words, with life. We should all be happy they ended it with the same standard of production they started it with. It was a great show on those terms from the start until the end.

The writing, yeah, that sucked. But at least we got a full on ending. As much as I could pick apart all the holes, laugh at those still trying to defend it, I simply don't. Because at least we got an end that was as well made as the start.
 
Kaos said:
Almost every thing was pointless.

Aryas face - swapping assassin skills? Nope, let’s just have her run around kings landing looking shocked.

Brans warging abilities? Nope, let’s have him roll his eyes back to try and get some WiFi while everyone else does the work.

Azor Ahai and the lord of lights prophecy? Too late the red woman decided to pack it in after she lit some Dothraki spears, just for them to all charge to their deaths and then magically respawn the very next episode.

The Jon saga was just the cherry on the proverbial shitcake. After his true identity had come to light he just fecks off on some bromance camping adventures with Tormund :lol:
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Honestly, GRRM has to take some of the blame for making some of his characters so overpowered (Arya, Bran, Dany) that they had to find ways to either arbitrarily eliminate some of their power (Viserion and Rhaegal’s deaths) or just rarely use them.

It will be interesting to see how he deals with these problems in his own take on the last two books.
 
RobinLFC said:
Season 8 for the build up to the Battle of Winterfell and its aftermath.

Season 9 for the build up to the Battle for King's Landing and its aftermath.

Both 10 episodes, could've been a great ending to the show if they had taken their time indeed.
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Yeah. The nitpicking about the narrative choices is annoying but it’s obvious they had to take more time to tell the story they wanted to tell. That’s why the last two seasons have seemed so “off” compared to what went before.

Season 7 really should’ve been 10 episodes too.
 
RochaRoja said:
Yeah. The nitpicking about the narrative choices is annoying but it’s obvious they had to take more time to tell the story they wanted to tell. That’s why the last two seasons have seemed so “off” compared to what went before.

Season 7 really should’ve been 10 episodes too.
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Who decided to make those seasons shorter?
 
vodrake said:
Arya's story didn't really seem to go anywhere in the last couple of episodes, seemed a bit of a waste.

Like they needed her to be there, but didn't want her actually doing anything important as she's already had one of the biggest moments of the season
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Arya basically had to be a King’s Landing because she’s a fan favourite and essentially been promoted to a lead character in the show. From a storytelling perspective it didn’t really make much sense having her there at all.
 
RochaRoja said:
Honestly, GRRM has to take some of the blame for making some of his characters so overpowered (Arya, Bran, Dany) that they had to find ways to either arbitrarily eliminate some of their power (Viserion and Rhaegal’s deaths) or just rarely use them.

It will be interesting to see how he deals with these problems in his own take on the last two books.
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They’re not over-powered just yet in the books. I think it’s something Martin will avoid doing.
 
RochaRoja said:
Arya basically had to be a King’s Landing because she’s a fan favourite and essentially been promoted to a lead character in the show. From a storytelling perspective it didn’t really make much sense having her there at all.
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It made perfect sense she was there. She wanted to kill Cersei. What didn't make sense was for her to do a U-Turn and abandon her mission which she had prepared and trained for since she saw her father die at the end of Season 1. For her to then just stand back in the finale episode was bloody hilarious. Just didn't work for me.
 
Di Maria's angel said:
Well he said so at the end. "Its why I'm here". Again made no sense. If you know you're going to be king but don't want it, don't be there, Bran.

Also, what was the point of him venturing beyond the wall?
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I swear some of you people don’t even watch the show.
 
dumbo said:
Avery, More, Wolsey, Boleyn, Cromwell, Howard, Seymour, Wyatt
Anne, Anne, Elizabeth, Mary, Maria, Mary,
George, Gregory, Rafe, Richard, Richard Riche
Henry, Henry, Henry, Henry , Humphrey, Hans Holbein, Henry
Dick Purser

The cheek.
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Half the world is called Thomas...
 
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RedSky said:
It made perfect sense she was there. She wanted to kill Cersei. What didn't make sense was for her to do a U-Turn and abandon her mission which she had prepared and trained for since she saw her father die at the end of Season 1. For her to then just stand back in the finale episode was bloody hilarious. Just didn't work for me.
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Sorry that was what I meant. She should’ve buggered off on the horse and not returned for the finale (except for a scene where she says farewell to her family at the very end).
 
Redlambs said:
Fair enough.

They clearly wanted it to end though. I honestly don't think they are great writers, in fact they clearly aren't, but they did do a very good job at adapting. GRRM is still to blame for this mostly.
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People should always remember that they wrote the Tywin and Arya thing and plenty of the Hound’s scenes with Arya essentially from scratch which were amongst the best things in the entire series.

I think they’re decent writers but it seems clear that they took their eyes off the ball towards the end.
 
GhastlyHun said:
Science has found that GoT watchers, and even more so those who have read the books, are especially intelligent, beautiful, and generally successful at life.
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Our willies are like tree trunks as well, even the women.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
What is fan service? I’m sure no fan wanted bran to be king. I’m sure no fan wanted Jon sent to the nights watch.

There’s a few things that stood out as strange and no sense (Tyrion speech at the pit when he’s prisoner, Sansa allowed to keep winterfell separate) but jeez people love to feel superior and are certainly wasted in their day jobs. I’ve never read ‘awful writing” or “fan service” so much in my life.
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Not every decision was fan service, but yes a load of it was thrown in at the end. Bronn becoming Lord of the Reach being the key example of that, D&D did it purely because he was a popular character.

It was shitty writing, people are calling a spade a spade. This is a discussion thread about game of thrones, people think it's shit, they're going to say they think it's shit. It's literally like going in to a match thread after a 5-0 loss and posting some pointless comment like 'omg you guys should quit your day job look at how insightful my comment is cos you're not pro managers so can't criticise!!'.

Nobody feels superior, they just think it's shit and are hella' disappointed that 8 years of watching their favourite show has ended in a bag of absolute shite. Nobody is claiming they could do better, just that writers paid millions of pounds should be able to.

Jon's ending was fine, it wasn't sad at all. He gets to feck off North where he's happiest, he pets Ghost and goes adventuring with Tormund.
 
Jon: I can't justify what she did, I won't even try.

*two seconds later tries to repeatedly justify it*
 
RochaRoja said:
Sorry that was what I meant. She should’ve buggered off on the horse and not returned for the finale (except for a scene where she says farewell to her family at the very end).
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But then we would have missed out on the greatest line of the episode, "I know a killer when I see one", about the woman who they both literally just watched murder the whole population of a city :lol:
 
RochaRoja said:
People should always remember that they wrote the Tywin and Arya thing and plenty of the Hound’s scenes with Arya essentially from scratch which were amongst the best things in the entire series.

I think they’re decent writers but it seems clear that they took their eyes off the ball towards the end.
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Yeah brother, I can get behind this.

I don't want to have a go, because I still think some things were better on tv than in the books, but they definitely dropped the ball in the last 2 seasons and went all for show. I understand it, I really do, but they did want to end it quickly and they did want to make flashy scenes over storytelling.
 
kouroux said:
They need to go anime, it would be much better and less of a headache budget wise
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........
......nah thanks.

Anime, gotta be the worst form of entertainment, I’d rather watch Coronation Street on loop than that shit. fecking weebs.
 
Zlatan 7 said:
What is fan service? I’m sure no fan wanted bran to be king. I’m sure no fan wanted Jon sent to the nights watch.

There’s a few things that stood out as strange and no sense (Tyrion speech at the pit when he’s prisoner, Sansa allowed to keep winterfell separate) but jeez people love to feel superior and are certainly wasted in their day jobs. I’ve never read ‘awful writing” or “fan service” so much in my life.
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Yeah, the term fan service is as lazy as those who claim the writing is lazy. Its a nothing saying, when majority arent liking it. I understand when its used and gives people a happy ending (but doesnt make sense) however people enjoy it. But when people dont want stuff, or narrative demands it or shows signs that its going to lead to that, its not fan service imo.
 
RochaRoja said:
People should always remember that they wrote the Tywin and Arya thing and plenty of the Hound’s scenes with Arya essentially from scratch which were amongst the best things in the entire series.

I think they’re decent writers but it seems clear that they took their eyes off the ball towards the end.
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I think they are good when its only additions and more focused. Having all these different narratives to join together is what probably killed them and why they wanted it to end. Still dont understand why they didnt step back, do the other project and still be involved but get others to do it. They get others to do the bulk of the work but its still against their name overall.

Massive Spanner said:
Let's be honest, the biggest problem with season eight was the severe lack of female nudity.
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Not enough Tyrion slapping Joffrey either. Just pull up his corpse, see him as a wight, and still let Tyrion slap him.
 
Sylar said:
Yeah, the term fan service is as lazy as those who claim the writing is lazy. Its a nothing saying, when majority arent liking it. I understand when its used and gives people a happy ending (but doesnt make sense) however people enjoy it. But when people dont want stuff, or narrative demands it or shows signs that its going to lead to that, its not fan service imo.
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Fan service is when the writers deliberately put things in even if it goes against the established logic of the show, purely to satisfy a section of the viewers.

Bronn getting what he did was exactly that, it's an accurate description. He was very popular with the fans so he ended up on the council, even though it's completely illogical for that to actually happen.

What else would you call it? Natural plot progression, really?
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Fan service is when the writers deliberately put things in even if it goes against the established logic of the show, purely to satisfy a section of the viewers.

Bronn getting what he did was exactly that, it's an accurate description. He was very popular with the fans so he ended up on the council, even though it's completely illogical for that to actually happen.

What else would you call it? Natural plot progression, really?
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Youre citing one example. Ive seen people say Arya killing NK was fan service, or whole of episode 2 of season 8 was fan service (even though most of those interactions made sense).
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Fan service is when the writers deliberately put things in even if it goes against the established logic of the show, purely to satisfy a section of the viewers.

Bronn getting what he did was exactly that, it's an accurate description. He was very popular with the fans so he ended up on the council, even though it's completely illogical for that to actually happen.

What else would you call it? Natural plot progression, really?
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Season 3 with Season 7/8 sensibilities would have probably resulted in Robb surviving the Red Wedding and heroically dying later on whilst saving Ned, who would have survived his execution when Ice turned into a Faceless Man and killed Joffrey. King Stannis would have legitmised Gendry and arranged a marriage between himself and Shireen and the Night King would have been blown up with a Patriot missile.
 
SquishyMcSquish said:
Fan service is when the writers deliberately put things in even if it goes against the established logic of the show, purely to satisfy a section of the viewers.

Bronn getting what he did was exactly that, it's an accurate description. He was very popular with the fans so he ended up on the council, even though it's completely illogical for that to actually happen.

What else would you call it? Natural plot progression, really?
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You've been crying for two days now :lol:
 
That was pure fan service in Line of Rubbish when DI Fleming told that woman to piss off.
 
Sylar said:
Youre citing one example. Ive seen people say Arya killing NK was fan service, or whole of episode 2 of season 8 was fan service (even though most of those interactions made sense).
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Arya killing the NK definitely wasn't fan service, I have no issue with that.

The interactions made sense but that entire episode did feel a little like the writers somehow didn't realise they had only 4 episodes left from this point to wrap up the entire story. I enjoyed those interactions and that episode in isolation, but it's a little bit annoying when you reach episode six and they're skipping important periods of time because they don't have any time left to actually show it and they have to finish everything off with half an hour to go.

Some of those scenes did lean towards being fan service though. Haha look Tormund is hitting on Brienne again! There's nothing wrong with little moments like that, but do you really dedicate screen time to it when you're scrabbling to wrap things up and have to end up squishing about a million plot points in to the final 2 episodes?
 
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